from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: jon meacham is here. he is a pulitzer prize winning historian and executive editor at random house. his latest book is destiny and power, the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush. it draws on extensive conversations with the former president, his family, and his inner circle. the book has made national headlines and the elder sh offers tough assessments to dick cheney, donald rumsfeld and even his son, walling the con city also be praise, a review in "the new york times" says quote the book reflects the qualities of both subject and biographer. judiciousness, balanced, deliberate if the, and with a deep appreciation of history and the personalities who shape it. all of that having been said i am pleased to have my friend and a friend of this broadcast, jon meacham back at this table. welcome. >> at least you didn't say despite that. [laughter.] >> rose: where do we start? this has been a 17 year project. >> 17 year odyssey, first went up in 1998 with our mutual friend michael to see him, almost

first contact with the bush people, did they say, thank god, jon meacham. have been waiting for a man like you to show up. jon: i don't remember the pickup. there was skepticism because i had been, for a long time and newsweek. you may remember in the fall of 1987, newsweek did a cover story saying, fighting the wimp factor. he hated that. it was a long conversation about it. interestingly -- charlie: at dinner? -- us some biographical jon: based in the winters in houston -- they spend the winters in houston. i think president bush was more for it perhaps than other people. charlie: barbara? she made a condition. jon: she would not give you diaries unless you allowed her to approve cut -- quotes. i took 90 pages to her, she took nothing off of the record. presidential families go, i could not imagine a more gracious, open, and welcoming group. they are comfortable with what they did. the 43rd president was not a big fan of this project. he said that publicly. he was skeptical of me. finally -- the case i was, it was my initiative this is a man who needs to

bush by jon meacham. in it it says the new york developer donald trump mixed his availability as a vice presidential candidate to lee atwater, bush thought the overture, strange and unbelievable. that's what he wrote in his diary. >> you know, lee atwater was a very good friend of mine, as you may have known. he was a great guy and i was a very political person for a long period of time and i was a big contributor and i was asked that question by lee, he said, what do you think about that idea? i said, lee, i don't know. it doesn't sound right. at that time i had no political aspirations. >> he made the overture to you? >> that's right. >> lot of talk about addiction on the campaign trail in new hampshire. you're not excluded from this issue. you have never used drugs, no smoking, no drinking, what shaped that decision? >> well, you know, really, i have so many people over the years where they became alcoholics, and so many people and so tremendous in every respect, they became alcoholics or they started

charlie: did he say to his son, i'm sorry, i have given them to jon meacham? i am from chattanooga. i don't know. i doubt that conversation took place. charlie: the story i understand to be true is that 43 was not happy. jon: his rhetoric could get hot. charlie: why are you being like a bush? jon: i don't have first-hand knowledge. charlie: don't you assume it is true? he wanted to write about his father. he wanted to show things that no one else knew. here is the one thing that would've shown the world his own. jon: here is some speculation. i think that if president bush 43 self describes his project in his biography of 41 as a love letter. i have a feeling that if that decision were taken that they would stick by the agreement with me, that as an independent biographer, i believe the contents of those diaries would have more credibility and impact if they were coming from someone who was not in the dna pool. charlie: this is an admiring biography. it is not uncritical. noticeablesm that is is a criticism he denied any knowledge of iran-contra. jon: he did.

judy woodruff talked with him earlier this week for the newshour bookshelf. >> woodruff: jon meacham,welcome. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: you had extraordinary, maybe unprecedented, access to this president-- all of his diaries, barbara bush's diaries, the ability to interview almost everybody in the family. why do you think they trusted you with all this? >> well, i hope they thought that i'd call it like i saw it, which was the-- sort of the mandate from the president. >> woodruff: he-- a life of privilege. i mean, he certainly grew up in his family involved in politics, great wealth, but he also had a sense of responsibility from a very early age. what do you think shaped him? >> well, you know, he comes out of the same world of noblesse oblige that shaped theodore roosevelt and franklin roosevelt, and, frankly, some of the founding fathers. you could argue that culturally and temperamentally, george h.w. bush has more in common with the founders than he does with his successors-- generationally, in terms of their life experience. you know, his mother was hugely important as s

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even in jon meacham's account, he backs him during the saddam hussein war and so he's trying to find his way and his last case he can really make to history in a major way. >> nick, when the american public reads this, i guess i wonder how you think it changes our collective understanding of the beginnings of that war. >> well, i think that -- i think it underscores the degree to which republican foreign policy is not a continuum, that you had a traditional kind of foreign policy engagement, which scowcroft really epitomized. then really after 9/11 under george w. bush you had this neocon, very aggressive foreign policy. epitomized by the statement at the time that everybody wants to go to baghdad, the real men want to go on to iran. that was what cheney andencapsu ways they pulled the republican party i think as a whole. >> when we talk about jeb's road forward in terms of processing all of this, given his already complicated communication skills, what would your advice be to him? >> as to how he responds to this book, you mean? >> yes. >> yeah. well, i think he's going to have to r

bush gave jon meacham total access to diaries. it's an unbelievable treasure trove for jon meacham.ed to do that so he could speak to history. every president since fdr has done that. >> when he said he's getting up there, was that a slam that he's feeble or not all there? >> i'm not sure that's to me but, yes. he doesn't really quite understand. look, i think it's really important to understand about george h.w. did not let his son off the hook. he takes responsibility as commander in chief for going into iraq, he should take responsibility for forming the circle of people around him. cheney and rumsfeld were there at his invitation, et cetera. what he does argue is that basically what bush is arguing is that cheney and rumsfeld helped drive him towards a cliff and he made the decision going over it by going to iraq. >> matt has been standing by patiently. you heard david gergen say this book went to the printer a long time ago. but i still wonder what the impact is on jeb bush's campaign. >> yeah. i think this has an impact on the race right now. on one hand, i think the lesson is

bush and author jon meacham. [applause] the >> thank you all.plause] >> they already love you and haven't even read the book. >> it's all downhill. >> thank you for coming. and i welcome keith, mary and maggie from nashville tennessee. thank you for being here with us i know the subject of your books quite well and i read your book much to the amazement of some of our fellow citizens. [laughter] >> and i liked your book and i hope everybody here reads it. it's the first serious biography of my dad. but before we talk about the book i think people might be interested in the background. your background. where were you raised, college. >> i grew up in tennessee on a civil war battlefield. i went to some great schools and an episcopal monastery which is redundant when you think about it. i went to the school that managed to produce both pat robertson and ted turner so we have a fit and if we can't then i went to the university in the south south which is best understood as a combination of downtime at the end of deliverance all put together. growing

john: when we come back, bush child or for jon meacham after this are from our sponsors. ♪ jon meachamthor of the george herbert walker bush biography. he joins us from philadelphia. so good to see you. >> how are you? this is a question we always wish somebody would ask while promoting a book but never get asked: what stories from this book that you consider important had it not had a chance to talk about yet? >> i appreciate that. one of the things i find fascinating is whoever was hiring the andover faculty in the 1930's was brilliant because if you read bush's teacher reports, you find that the character of the man was entirely said from the time he was 14 until he was 18. he was intense about everything. he worked hard but didn't want anybody to know it. he covered it up with a great amount of charm, and inability to reach out to his classmates. he was a heroic figure at the school, famously helped a kid who was being picked on. the kid later said, who just saved me? and they said, that is poppy bush. the menre character of was born before he entered public life. mark: you did som

>> let me ask jon meacham. a man suck all oxygen out of the entire room talking about marco rubio, ben carson. let's talk about the man who in four to five weeks is man who isn't here. you've just written an e epic book about george h.w. bush. his son, jeb bush, is in the process of disappearing in the presidential canvas. what do you think about the troubles of the jub bush campaign? >> i think it's safe to say they're worried, they're concerned about it. you know, there is a mental button that gets hit in the bush psyche when populist billionaires come on the scene. george h.w. bush continues to believe that ross perot cost him re-election in 1992. the trump fe nonma -- as mark twain once said history may not repeat itself, but it rhymes. they rhyme a lot. >> they had a fund-raiser, a get-together in georgetown. what's happening internally that's going to change the trajectory of jeb bush's campaign. >> look at 41, bush 41 in 1988 when he won. he had to fight the nomination. there were times he was completely

when you have a biographier who is as good as jon meacham, who has a good relationship with bush 41.e truth. which i think is refreshing. it's clear to me that 41, while 43 was president, kept his distance. and didn't interfere in his son's presidency. unless he was asked. and it was also very clear from the things we've read this morning that 43 did not ask an awful lot of just informed him about strategy and, therefore, bush 41 kind of held back. >> you covere this. >> 1,000% i agree that it's refreshingly honest in an age of spin and hiding things that george h.w. bush who e knows this is going to be his last word. so he's critical of rumsfeld and his son and the ak axis of evil. but not in a nasty way. just in an honest way. i disagree. to the rumsfeld point, they are eight years apart. the history people might not realize is to the elder, 91 years old, donald rumsfeld, washington is like the fifth grade. they have been rivals for years. back to the knicnixon administration. his book criticizes things he did as vice president after the lebanon bombing. criticizes after the persia

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. >> joining us now pulitzer prize winner author "jon meacham."get the offer there guys to put the boots on the ground is the easy solution of the day. >> it is. you know, one of the things that struck me the past couple of days and i don't mean this as criticism to the president, more an observation, in history, i really do think that we need a true national education about the region, about the issues, the origin, the options. remember when fdr wanted to explain the various theaters of world war ii, he asked radio listeners to go get a map and rand mcnally made a map. i think there's a real opportunity here for a more serious conversation about what the options are because right now this debate to me anyway feels untethered from reality for so many people. complicated, fluid situation. it leads itself to reflect partisans predesposed dispositions. without more data, without more explanation, i don't think as a democracy we're going to come to a very good decision. >> one of the political data points of the day is a new poll showing 76% oppose se

he was going to talk to his biography jon meacham in a very candid way, and he decided he wasn'toing he says it in a way that's meant to be supportive of his son. he says it in a sense that he thinks his son was ill served by vice president cheney and secretary rumsfeld. he also allows of course no one is more responsible than the president of the united states. in that case, george bush. >> he talks about george w. bush but also in the book talks about his other son, join bueb bush. why would they come out with this now? jeb bush is in the middle of running. what does he say about jeb in the book? >> it's an interesting question. there's not a lot of jeb in the book. a little bit here. in 1992, urged his father to replace dan quayle on the ticket for his re-election. but he also supported dan quayle on some of the things that the vice president had said. most notably, his comments about murphy brown, you remember, that sitcom, in which candice bergen played a television anchor who has a child out of wedlock. dan quayle criticized that. bush said he agreed with that criticism. he als

jon meacham, who's written a comprehensive of george h.w.he news coming out of that was the criticism that the first president bush makes of his son's secretary of -- the vice president and secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld and dick cheney. this week you had the younger bush commenting saying i stand by what i did. it was interesting how it put jeb bush on the spot again about the iraq war. is this a problem for jeb bush? >> it's a problem for jeb bush. he's trying to get over a bad debate, wants to get the bad campaign back on. wants to show himself connecting with voters. he sits down for the interviews and asks what do you think about your father criticizing your brother's secretary of defense, saying very unflattering things about dick cheney and donald rumsfeld. it always mystified everybody who knew the first president bush, why w., who chose donald rumsfeld, who actually knifed bush 41, his father, and administered the coup in his rebuttal about the book saying obviously he's getting up in years and he's too old, something jon mea

bush, and author of jon meacham. [applause] >> thank you all.y already love you and haven't even read the book. >> is perfect or it's all downhill. >> welcome to dallas. thank you for coming, jon. margaret, thank you so much. laura and i welcome keith, sam, merry and maggie. thank you all for being here with us. and we are thrilled you are here. so i know the subject of your book quite well. >> you've met him. >> and i read your book, much to the amazement of some of our fellow citizens. and i really liked your book and hope everybody here reads it. it surely the first serious biography of my dad but before we talk about the book i think people might be interested in your background. where were you raised, college? >> i grew up in chattanooga, tennessee, on a civil war battlefield, missionary ridge. so for me history was always a real thing, a tactile thing. i could still find bullets from the battle in our yard. i went to some great school to i would to an episcopal monastery which is kind of redundant when you think about it. i went to the mac

jon meacham, the book is extraordinary. thank you so much.xt, standing with france. a look at london's wembley stadium as the soccer team prepares to play later today. proud of you, son. ge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you? go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world. hey! how are you?g? where are we watching the game? you'll see. i think my boys have a shot this year. yeah, especially with this new offense we're running... i mean, our running back is a beast. once he hits the hole and breaks through the secondary, oh he's gone. and our linebackers and dbs dish out punishment, and never quit. ♪ you didn't expect this did you? no i didn't. the nissan altima. there's a f

to jon meacham in "destiny and power." >> i took it as a mark of pride. i was aggressive in defending, in carrying out what i thought were the right policies. >> reporter: a complicated family drama now extending to the presidential hopes of another son jeb who talked about it today with nbc's kasie hunt. >> my brother is a big boy. his administration was shaped by his thinking, his reaction to the attacks on 9/11. i think my dad, like a lot of people that love george, want to try to create a different narrative. george would say this was under my watch. i was commander in chief. >> reporter: tom brokaw talked to family friends. >> it was always an idea that it was a strained relationship, but 41 would not publically differ with his son. they are very close personally, if not politically. >> that's stark stuff. we never heard this from him before. he never said this in a public setting before. >> reporter: the elder bush criticized what he called his son's hot rhetoric, this fateful phrase with iraq, iran and north korea. >> states like these and their te

these are fascinating details coming out about jon meacham's new book on george h.w.including these scathing criticisms of dick cheney and donald rumsfeld. what do you make of them calling cheney an iron ass and rumsfeld an arrogant fellow? >> well, i never thought that i'd be able to say these words on television and get away with it, but arrogant fellow, that's pretty strong stuff. the complaints that the first president bush is making about the administration of his son sort of feeds the impression that his son was maybe over his head and was handled by a puppet like a puppet by those particularly cheney and rumsfeld. and it's going to feed an impression that's probably going to be harmful to the candidacy of jeb bush. >> well, these are pretty scathing critiques. and this is just the beginning. so is this a game changer on how we'll view w.'s legacy? >> well, a lot of people already view him as being over his head and somewhat of a puppet. so i don't think it's going to change opinions at all, but it's certainly going to be an interesting one because it comes from

. >>> and this morning we're getting an advanced read on jon meacham's new biography on president george.w. bush. it's called "destiny and power," and according to "the new york times," the former president gives a scathing critique of dick cheney and donald rumsfeld's service in his son's administration. in the article, he refers to both of them as, quote, iron asses. on cheney, quote, he just became very hard-line and very different from the dick cheney i knew and worked with referring to cheney's time as the elder bush's defense secretary. the former president who had harsher words for his son's first defense secretary, calling donald rumsfeld a quote, arrogant fellow, and adding, quote, i don't like what he did, and i think it hurt the president. bush also spoke in general terms about what he cal hot rhetoric from his son's administration. saying that some of it may have come from his son and some of it from the peoaround him. here's an example. the former president gave from the 2002 state of the union in which bush 43 talks about iraq, iran and north korea. speechwriter david from

. ♪ >> coming up on bloomberg television, jon meacham joins all due respect tonight.t fu. "what'd you miss?" the biggest business stories in the news now. cisco reading analyst estimates him a reporting eps of $.59, analysts had predicted $.56. $12.6 billion in revenue. the giant expects sales to be flat to 2% growth. the bad news keeps on coming from retailers. nordstrom's the latest to take a hit. reporting earnings of $.37 for the third quarter. analysts predicted $.72. revenue came in at $3.2 billion. the consensus was for $3.37 billion. 41% of its holdings sold after eight route in developing nation assets. the firm cutting its assets to a combined number of shares. bridgewater was once the biggest investor in the two biggest emerging market exchange traded funds. that is your bloomberg business flash. we are back with the jeff green. we were discussing the inequality gap. you are based in florida. there are two florida sons in the campaign. jeb bush and marco rubio, do either have a prescription for inequality that makes sense to you? >> no, they have the same p

. ♪ john: we will see jon meacham here on thursday but now it's the daily carson show.ws here, but so far

. >> the pulitzer prize winning historian, jon meacham, was given unprecedented access to the bush family archives. >> he wrote a letter in the late 1950s to his mother about robin. "there is about our house a need. the running, pulsating restlessness of the four boys as they struggle to learn and grow. we need some soft blond hair to offset those crew cuts. we need a dollhouse to stand firm against our rack ets and baseball cards. we need someone to cry when i get mad, not argue. we need a little one who can kiss without leaving egg or jam or gum. we need a girl. we had one once. we need her and yet we have her. we can't touch her, and yet we can feel her. we hope she'll stay in our house for a long, long time. love, pop." when i asked the president to read that letter out loud in an interview, he broke down long before he finished. sobbing very hard. and his chief of staff came in the room and said, why did you want him to do that? and i said, well, if you want to know someone's heart -- and before i could finish the sentence, the president said -- you have to know what breaks it. >> su

. ♪ john: we will see jon meacham here on thursday but now it's the daily carson show.ith interviews here, but so far his violent childhood, and eight yale psych course, all alleged and none proven to satisfaction of the ben carson skeptics. it's been enough to move on to the holy land of the big-time broadcast networks, television. >> ben carson is firing back at the media. >> ben carson defends himself against criticism that he fabricated stories in his past. >> carson calls it a witch hunt. >> carson's credibility is now the biggest story in politics. frome going to explore it all angles. first, is he in better shape our worse shape than he was headed into the weekend when the story started to explode? john: there have been few questions i found easier to answer than this one. obviously worse. it has gone to national broadcast television, as you say. questions are attached to his name more than ever before. >> if you go one by one, yes. if you go long-term and he is caught lying, it could not him out. but on none of these stories has to been caught lying, none of the

jon meacham, the executive editor and vice president of random house, he will be on to discuss his newgeorge h.w. bush. that is on tonight at 5:00. coming up on "bloomberg markets" -- fiscal reports earnings after the close, what can we expect from the tech bellwether? ♪ david: let's see what tech stocks are making moves this afternoon. what do you have for us? >> we have a small cap name with a big cap profile. barry dillard's iac interactive corp. out making an unsolicited bid for angie's list, offering $8.75 in cash per share. that represents a 10% premium from yesterday's close. investors are cheering this possible merger between the consumer review site and iac. sharinget analysts are should not refuse. angie's list is under pressure from activist investors. the president said that the company's quote unquote running thin. when we look at a longer-term chart, we see his point. scherzer off nearly 70% from the july 2013 peak. david? let's take a look at shares of cisco. the high bar set for the tech sector's bellwether result. stocks treading water, moving higher today. >> the one

. ♪ john: we will see jon meacham here on thursday but now it's the daily carson show. here, but so far his violent childhood, and a

it is authored by jon meacham. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> i want to talk about what chris just laid out for us with ben carson. what is the impact of this particular issue on his campaign? >> most of us judge on historical historical. 2016 has alluded all analogy with trump and carson so far ahead. the past may not be much of a guide here. i suspect it is a bump in the road for carson. as mentioned a second ago. it is an unconventional campaign in an unconventional year. the conventional rules of how campaigns can go off track sometimes probably don't apply. >> it is something we will be following closely. talking about your book, it made headlines this week as we learned more about george h.w. bush's view of his son's insiders when he was in the white house. elder bush saying cheney had his empire and rumsfeld had a lack of humility. jeb bush, the third bush in the equation. we asked him and he said his dad was trying to create a different narrative for his brother. is that your take? >> i think pr

bush's stunning candor, telling his biographer jon meacham that his son, the president, got bad advice from his most trusted advisers. in the book bush 41 calls secretary donald rumsfeld an arrogant fellow and rumsfeld fired back telling nbc news that bush 41 is getting up in years and misjudges bush 43, when i found made his own decisions. >> well, that's very regrettable to say something like that. one thing about bush 41 is as time passes we appreciate him more and more >> reporter: two have a history. asked in a 2013 documentary whether it was dick cheney who administration -- >> i don't think george w. >> reporter: and in the new biography "destiny in pour" the elder bush didn't spare criticism for his own secretary of defense including dick cheney an irish-blank. >> had much worse said about me. >> reporter: cheney on fox even recommended the book. >> i saw my role as being as tough and aggressive as needed to be to carry out the president's policy. >> reporter: george w. bush in a statement said i am proud to have served with dick cheney and donald rujs felled. >> my brother is

the interviews have gone back almost a decade with jon meacham and george h.w. bush.n comes at a time when jeb bush is not only running for president but is having troubles running for president, and this is one more distraction for him. >> coincidental or also good strategy to sell books, you know? couldn't hurt to have -- >> you know, when you've written a book and it's got the headlines and it's on msnbc, that is not bad for book sales. >> not bad at all. susan page, it's great seeing you. thanks for being with us. >> nice seeing you. >>> next, a quick check on the market, how it's reacting to the october jobs report. down 58 points, 57 points. the jobs report posted some of the strongest gains for the labor market this year. you see it. at least wall street is not reacting positively to it. as it turns out, sometimes good news is bad news on wall street. we'll explain what exactly that means, next. ♪ there are no medals won for earning a living. it's just what you do for family. but it's hard to build a future if you can't see past today. that's why walmart is inv

neil: what does president bush think about the jon meacham book coming out on george bush, sr.ick cheney and stewardship of the iraq war, down to donald rumsfeld? even his sons, george w. bush's axis of evil comments that kind of talk that didn't really help matters any, do you think jeb bush foles that controversy and has to deal with it? >> i don't think so. i think the book will show, right now the press talks about the conflict part. neil: you're right. >> i think the book will also show everybody's different in the family. neil: why do you think his dad is coming out to say all this. >> they have known jon meacham for a long time. he helped them with literacy foundation. neil: these comments are years old. >> years old. these are things talked about now. when the entire book is read and they will see what jeb is about and relationship with the father, how significant that is. neil: you're still firmly behind jeb bush? you think he will pull this out? >> 100% and betting all my friends. neil: wow, that is badger bet. >> thank you. neil: david, thank you very, very much. so

bush and author jon meacham. [applause] >> thank you all. already love you and have not even read the book. >> it is all downhill. >> welcome to dallas. i welcome john's wife, sam, merry and maggie. and thank you all for being here with us and we are thrilled that you are here. and it's really the first serious biography of my dad. and before we talk about the book i think that people might be interested in your background. we're re-raised, college. >> i grew up in chattanooga, tennessee, on a civil war battlefield. so for me history was always a very real thing and a tactile thing. i could still see things from our yard. i went to the mcauley school, which managed to produce pat robertson and ted turner and then i went to the university of the south which is best understood as a combination of down abbey and deliverance. i'll put together. but growing up i read biographies of great man. william manchester was a hugely important book for me. and i love politics. my grandfather was a judge in tennessee and he used to have coffee with all the

this was jon meacham. it had nothing to do with the family.eryone thought for a long time jeb was going to be the leader. so it's not as if jeb's down. >> just fascinating to hear all of these behind the scenes stuff. thanks so much. great to see you. >> meanwhile, this weekend, donald trump is gearing up for a little "snl" tomorrow night. it's likely going to be a ratings hit. there's a lot more than just ratings at stake for both trump and nbc. we're going to discuss it all ahead. when your cold makes you wish... ...you could stay... ...in bed all day... ...you need the power of... new theraflu expressmax. new theraflu expressmax. the power to feel better. well, right now you can get 15 gigs for the price of 10. that's 5 extra gigs for the same price. so five more gigs for the same price? yea, allow me to demonstrate. do you like your pretzel? yea. okay, uh, may i? 50% more data for the same price. i like this metaphor. oh, it's even better with funnel cakes. but very sticky. now get 15 gigs for the price of 10. digestive core.r so choose ul

jon meacham was granted access to t presiden the former president's fst public critique of george w.'s presidency, tough words for dick cheney andnd donal rumsfeld and the rhetoric of his son. >> constitute an axis of evil. >> axis of evil didn't like that. >> he thought the swaggering image of bush 43 administration, he held cheney and rumsfeld to some degree responsible for it. but genemanly and honestly, he did tell me ultimately lyly it's the president's fault. >> reporter: bush told meacham that cheneyy is hard-line. built his own empire. also goes against his code as vice president. >> i think it's fair to say that dick cheney saw i himself as much more of an operational officer. when i told cheney those remarks, he said, we have two very different visions of presidency. >> reporter: not bushing something on 43. >> no, no. >> reporter: 41 calls rumsfeld as arrogant and served the president badly. he hasn't responded. >> all i'll say to secretary rumsfeld on that, the comments were made beginning in 2008, so, seven years ago, it was not a passing comment, i took a a transcript of