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elliott williams, jonah goldberg, and miles taylor are all back with me. yes, jonah still.glad hostile here. this week i knew john for that reason. it is a very big ask for one to be able to convince the public that there is a link between extremist and donald trump. remember the michael cohen phenomenon and the idea that he wasn't particularly explicit about saying instructional things. you do this. remember this? >> that is how he speaks. he doesn't give you questions. he doesn't give you orders. he speaks in a code. and i understand the code because i've been around him for a decade. it is your impression to others who work from understand the quote as well? >> most people, yes. >> okay elliott. it works for a decade of knowledge. but how about the oath keepers. the proud boys. arguably, they have been following him obviously is the president united states for ten years. he hasn't been the president for that amount of time. is that convincing for someone other than michael cohen you're trying to bridge that gap? >> it's tough. you know there's basically two roles to bein

and while jonah goldberg, elliott williams can bring things. uss things, jonah, it came off. talk about that. let's talk about secret service, everyone, today because deleted text messages after there's a request for you to hold on to them. something smells a little fishy to me. how about you? >> elliott and i both worked at dhs, and i would be interested to hear what he has to say on this front. i was on both committees that oversee secret service, same at homeland security. immense respect. by bigger concern than the deleted text messages because we don't know the bigger story yet. my bigger concern is the cultural issue there. as elliott knows, secret service agents are going to be put in a very, very difficult conflict, and they already are with this investigation. and that is they feel an obligation to the president that is to take a bullet for that person. when you drill into someone's head at the raleigh training center where the secret service trains outside washington, d.c. that they're going to take a bullet for someone, when it comes

so from the los angeles times, jonah goldberg has a new piece looking at this from the sitting presidente did biden go wrong. in this piece, goldberg writes there is a lot of theories why he's such a political mess. and my own is their correct to one extent or another but the biggest problem is ideological and structural. he will be remembered as last democratic president shaped by the old fdr coalition and reliance on the white working class and bipartisanship. meanwhile the democratic party base is philosophically and cultural contemptuous of politics, yes, the same is true of the gop and all too happy to blow up that old coalition. and if biden had followed an eisenhower like policy as leaning into his image as a grandfatherly figure, above the childish biggers of washington, it might have worked but biden let his vanity, the prospect of outsigning barack obama as a transformal president and instinct to placate the left got the better of him and now he's left with an agenda biden can't sell in no small part because voters don't want it. what do you make of that? >> i think jonah is ri

former deputy assistant attorney general elliott williams, and editor and chief of the dispatch, jonah goldbergnuary 6th front. the fact that mike pompeo might go before the committee and they're trying to work with them to figure out a good time, that's big news. that's a cabinet member, for goodness sakes. that's huge. >> that's really big. i think most people thought that they would end the hearing last week, prime time, big show, stunning testimony. but they've still got work to do, and they're clearly doing it. as we've talked about before, in these kind of investigations, you know, one hearing leads to another because you've got more witnesses who feel comfortable or compelled to come forward. and it's interesting we may see higher levels folks coming down. >> and the bannon conviction i think has put fire under folks to say, oh, this is real. you can't really thumb your nose, although mark meadows, right, and dan scavino, they were not prosecuted. what's your thought? >> the thing is, the interesting thing about the misdemeanor from hell is that you can actually go to jail for it, as ste

miles taylor was chief of staff at the department that oversees secret service, and while jonah goldberg elliott williams brings experience from the doj to the conversation as well. you can discuss things, jonah, it came off a little odd. i'm glad you're here. thank you so much. [laughs] you might come ahead in your conversation, let's talk about the secret service, everyone, today. deleted text messages? after there's a request for you to hold on to them? something smells a little fishy to me. how about you? >> elliott and i both worked at dhs and i'd be interesting when he has to say on this front, look, i love the secret seat service, i love the agents. when i was the capitol hill i was on both committees that oversaw the secret service, same is as the department of homeland security. my bigger concern than deleted text messages, because we don't know the full story yet and the secret service spokesman is posing a bigger concern is the cultural issue there. as elliott knows, secret service agents are going to be put in a very, very difficult conflict. and they already are with this in