jonah peretti, nick denton, a kenny layer, nick, you know, arianna huffington and others. but that one of the people who was very dissatisfied with sort of the goc or montrose of sexual pictures and you know, innuendo. and so, you know, basically, scandal monitoring was peter feel is a rich billionaire and basically to so we're talking about individuals have massive impact on the news. habits of american society, or global society, or an individual who gets picked up and has enough power to bring down one of these news organizations. are we living in this world kind of super gladiators? we're most this don't matter at all, were just victims or winners accidentally, but it's all about these individuals who figured out how to a mass, incredible power. and what does that say about american democracy and the economics of news today? i mean, i do, it does the, i, i totally agree with these and these immensely powerful figures. eli moss being the main ones, right. i've kind of gotten interested in news as a hobby and what would like to crush their enemies and elevate their frien

the people who own these sites, whether it's mark zuckerberg, or to some degree elon musk, even jonah perettile of publishers, because they have become the purveyors of information. and there's just this deep, like, abiding resistance to really embracing that. it's a headache, for sure, but the reality is, you know, facebook's and -- it's not just a website, it's not just to connect people, it's where people get their information. the same is true for twitter. the efforts to kind of figure out how to make twitter responsible have been so fraught, so ham-handed. i won't even comment about what musk is doing. but there seems to be a deep-seated culture, like, it's antithetical to who these guys are. >> yeah, i think you're right. i mean, i think to some degree, you know, it is nice to have free content rather than content to pay for, if you are in business, you get to keep all the money. so, some of those commercials -- in some ways, you say it's ideological. and i don't mean left, right ideological. i mean the sense that we can do away without the old institutions, the old east coast media. an