this is bulls and bears, here they are, bulls and bears this week, gary b smith, tobin smith, jonas max ferris, along with julian epstein and larry, talk about future tax hikes, holding back a jobs recovery? >> that's right, that's right, brenda. well, you know, certainly for consumers that are work being that have 401(k) plans they may be feeling more confident these days, but their employers don't share the optimism. they're worried what's ahead and what's ahead are future tax increases, for small business owners still, these are people that own delis and dry cleaners and pave your driveways, not fat cats and million fairs and billionaires, they're average work people and concerned about the environment. and national independent business owners a record number of people. a bad time to start a business and a bad time to hire people. and that's not going to inspire jobs in this country, which is exactly what we need right now. >> okay, clearly larry is not excited about this. julian, what do you say? which tax plan? >> i don't know why larry is screaming at everybody. i mean, look, the numbers

jonas max ferris along with tim la camp and steve murphy, welme, everybody. okay. the folks at forbes will tackle the pamphlet plan in one hour, fair and balanced. what about the plan to overhaul the tax code. what is it going to mean for jobs. >> i think it's going to be great for jobs. ovrhauling the taxes is the thing that the governor and hopefully president romney can do. and incents, if that's a word, every individual and corporation out there. provides a path of what they're going to do, what they're ing to pay and if it's simplified and overhauled, it will get rid of hopefully a lot of the special interests, whic takes the government out of the intervention and provides a clear playing field for everyone. this could turn around our economy, if done soon and done right. >> brenda: jonas, we don't know exactly what kind of overhaul we would get and isn't that adding uncertainty? wouldn't that keep people from hiring? >> moreover, it doesn't really, neither plan really addresses the deficit and the need for revenues. let's leave that problem off the table and

here they are, the bulls and bears, we have got tobin smith, jonas max ferris, and, gary kontbalm, gary, what are those guys doing right. >> helping and letting businesses flourish. i'm in florida, a billion dollar tax cut to business over three years, great economic development agency that helps business like other states than california, which raises taxes and takes money out of the economy and puts it into the government's hands, which is huge for a state like that and florida is getting its act in gear. >> what do the candidates have to learn from these governors? neither one of them has exactly the same policies. >> the first thing we can learn is five out of the 7 governors in the swing states are republicans. so, a lot of the macro republican policies seem to be working at the state level, and, rick talked about florida but look at wisconsin, scott had to go up against the recall to get collective bargaining with the unions, and, john kasich, the same in ohio and, he has gone out and had about 18 tax cut plans, he's straightened out the tax code in ohio and these are the types of