anyway, jonathan carl. thank you so much. to the top of him really out there, for sure. >> thank you. i hope that people read it. i think it is important that people know what they are voting for. >> absolutely, one hunted percent. we need it right now. tired of winning is the book. for all of you, the historic meeting this week being described as an arranged marriage where a couple falls in love. fall in love. introducing j.p. morgan personal advisors. hey david. connect with an advisor to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup. just give us a number, we got the rest. number three? the monster. six? the boss. fifteen? titan turkey. number one? the philly. oh, yeah, you probably don't want that one. look, i'm not in charge of naming the subs. ♪ on your period, sudden gushes happen. say goodbye gush fears! thanks to always ultra thins... with rapiddry technology... that absorbs two times faster. h

jonathan carl, so nice to see you tonight, thanks for stopping by.is a lot to talk about with you, in particular. but let's begin with this soundbite i have, because you've got to hear this snippet from americans for prosperity. that of course is the koch -backed group, that is now endorsing one nikki haley. listen >> joe biden and donald trump had their chance. they can't fix what's broken. america, with the right leaders, we faced adversity, and risen to victory. now, it's our time to turn the page, and choose a new leader. nikki haley, a true fiscal conservative, a positive vision for the future. >> all set aside of course the obvious goonie's comparisons with it's our time. i use it myself in college for a campaign i was running at that point. but that's the message right now. they had their time, both the candidates are essentially relics. will this be persuasive to this new set of voters? >> well, i don't know. but there is a significant thing here happening. americans for prosperity, which is charles koch's group, it's the koch network, has a

healy's bid to stop donald trump but. >> joining me now abc's chief washington correspondent, jonathan carlhe's author of the new york times bestselling tired of winning. donald trump and the end of the ground old party. >> jonathan car so nice to see you tonight thanks for stopping by there is a lot to talk about with you in that particular, but let's deal with the soundbite i have because you've got to hear this snippet from americans for prosperity, that of course the coke back group now endorsing one nikki haley listen. >> joe biden and donald trump had their chance, they can't fix what is broken. america, with the right leaders we face diversity and risen to victory. now it is our time to turn the page and choose a new leader, nikki haley. a true fiscal conservative, a positive vision for the future. >> i will set aside the obvious goonie's comparison with it's our time. i use it my time for in college for a campaign i was running. that is the message right now, they have their time. both the candidates are relics, will this be persuasive to this new set of voters? >> i don't know, but

according to jonathan carl's reporting for his book, betrayal.y after boarding air force one, donald trump spoke with republican party chair ronald mcdaniel and delivered uncomfortable news. he told mcdaniel he was leaving the gop and creating's own political party, threatening to destroy the republican party altogether. i had at the release of the new book, not even carl shared the book of the audio that he had from trump, when he asked him about that call. this is something that has not heard before. we found it interesting because trump's response says a lot about his fraught relationship with the gop. >> when you got on the plane, you got a call from ronald mcdaniel, do you recall that phone conversation? >> no. >> because you, you had -- >> what did she say? >> that you -- >> what did she say? >> that you told her you were going to lead the republican party. >> now, this is the sickest thing i've ever heard. i never said any such thing. you mean, i was just gonna form another party or something? >> yes, yes. >> oh, that is [bleep], never hap

now, this is coming from jonathan carl of abc news. when trump spoke with carl two months after the insurrection. listen to this. >> if you look at the real size of that crowd, it was never reported correctly. there were -- it's the biggest crowd i have spoken in front of by far. that went back to the washington monument. >> you told them you were going to go up to the capitol. >> i was going to, and the secret service said you can't. and i would have, and then when i got back, i saw -- i wanted to go back. i was thinking about going back during the problem to stop the problem, doing it myself. secret service didn't like that idea too much. and i could have done that, and you know what, i would have been very well received. don't forget, the people that went to washington that day, in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged. that's why they went. >> so this is important not just for yesterday, but for today as well, as trump is set to go on trial in march on federal charges for his actions to overturn the 202

he said ""abc news" reporter jonathan carl just wrote another bad book. so little talent. jonathan: it was good. it was one thing specifically that set him off. it wasn't that i found out that his top strategist was using confederate code words for the confederate plot to assassinate abraham lincoln to describe trump's campaign theme. >> stephen: what was that? >> jonathan: his top strategist steve bannon used the confederate code words to describe the assassination plot on link into describe trump's campaign. it wasn't that. that's not what got him upset. it's not what he contested. it was and that i talked about waco, texas, and the significance of him starting his campaign in waco, texas, that place that inspired the oklahoma city bombing in 1995. that's not what he took issue with. it's not that i found so many people close to him literally think he was mentally unstable. it's not any of that. the thing that set him off was an anecdote about kim ka kim kardashian. it's true. that's the one thing. >> stephen: what is the thing? what did she do? did you break the interne

jonathan carl joins with us the answer.w book about trump fittingly called "tired of winning". >>> a hostage deal between israel and hamas could be announced, could, as early as today. that is according to sources who tell cnn the deal could include a pause in fighting for four to five days. more on the breaking news straight ahead. ♪ the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. >>> we're winning. we won in 2016. make sure that i -- we win by a lot. we're winning states that nobody has even thought about. we're winning, big, big, big. please, it's too much winning. we have to win more! we're going to win more! we're going to win so much! we're going to win with every single facet. we're going to win so much y

joining us now is abc news chief washington correspondent, jonathan carl, the author of the new book, tired of winning. donald trump in the end of the grand ol party. it's such a treat to have my friends on the show from other networks. i always like it when you write a book so i can have you come on. >> i spent a lot of time with you on the campaign trail in 2016. let's talk about the book, and donald trump and his feeling of being okay with inciting political anger, which sometimes can lead to political violence. when you're talking about where he went in the aftermath of january 6th, and in the after math of his announcement he was running for president, you talk about a town in texas, and you talk about political violence that could erupt from waco, talk to me about that, and how it ties into who donald trump is, and the donald trump that he's projecting on the campaign trail now. >> it wasn't just any campaign, it was the very first rally of his 2024 presidential campaign. he went to waco on the 30th anniversary of the federal showdown of the branch dividian cult. and killed 80 p

in march 2021, trump spoke with jonathan carl, the journalist, and talked about how the secret service stopped him from going to the capitol on the 6th of january. take alisten. >> but if you look a the real size of that crowd, it was never reported correctly. there were -- it's the biggest crd i've ever spoken in front of by far. >> really. >> by far. that went down to the washington - tt went back to the washington monument. >> you told them you were going to go to the capitol. were you just -- >> i woing to and the secret service said you can't and by the time i would have and then when i got back, i said i wanted to gback, i was thinking about goingac during the problem to stop the problem, doing it myself. secret service didn't like that idea too much. >>so, what -- >> and, you know what, i've been very well received. don't foet, the people that went to washington that day, in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged. that's why they went. >> and with us now to talk more about this, and more, nbc news justice reporter ryan reilly, the author of the new bo

say a little more about trump. er, and his attitude towards ukraine, towards helping ukraine, jonathan carlabc news channel, wrote a book called tired of victory, this book is coming out in just a few weeks, and there he talks about how he talked to the former by fox news anchor tucker carlson, who is also very much against aid to ukraine, and this tucker carlson, in a conversation with the host of fox news, said the following things: that trump, that trump's reluctance to help ukraine is more radical than he is, he says this in public, and then the quote: "i hate the war in ukraine more than anything in the world - said tucker carlson and trump are probably the only people who agree with me on this, so oh, we all love war here, it's just that we can't sleep, you know, it's our fault, we, we love war, trump will be elected anyway i heard the story, but i'm not experts, or i constantly read experts, as in principle yuliy reads, we read constantly, our work is like this, and he wrote that he is a very respected expert , i just don’t remember his name, well, but i will pay attention to his wor

. >> i want your reaction while i have you to part of an interview donald trump gave to jonathan carl>> you told them you were going to the capitol. >> i was going to. secret service said you can't. i would have. then when i got back, i saw -- i wanted to go back. i was thinking about going back during the problem to stop the problem, doing it myself. secret service didn't like that idea too much. i could have done that. i would have been very well received. don't forget, the people that went to washington that day in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged. that's why they went. >> we know, congressman, trump did very little to actually stop the violence that day. what do you make of this recording? >> for hours he refused to go on tv to call off the forces he had unleashed against the capitol and against the congress and against the vice president. he never got in touch with the army. he never got in touch with the national guard. he did nothing to stop it. of course, he did dream of going up to the capitol, like mussolini, riding with the mob to be restor

we'll discuss all of that and more with bestselling author jonathan carl. we'll be right back.n x. jen y. and jen z. each planning their future through the chase mobile app. jen x is planning a summer in portugal with some help from j.p. morgan wealth plan. let's go whiskers. jen y is working with a banker to budget for her birthday. you only turn 30 once. and jen z? her credit's golden. hello new apartment. three jens getting ahead with chase. solutions that grow with you. one bank for now. for later. for life. chase. make more of what's yours. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ at first, i used better than bouillon for broth. only pay for what you need. and then stir fry... sauces... even marinades

jonathan carl is abc's chief washington correspondent. he is an author. john joins me now.ou. you write that donald trump today has remade the party in his own image. what are the key ways the party is different today than it was in 2015? >> the party is largely driven around him. he is a personality. the image of donald trump as the guy that is the ultimate winner, the image he has cultivated for himself. policy seems to have receded into the background. there are a few broad strokes on issues such as immigration and tariffs. largely a more isolationist approach to the world. different from bill party of reagan, mccain, bush and romney. most of those figures, certainly the bush's, romney, john mccain before his death had essentially been banished from the party once donald trump came in. amna: when you look at some of the events we have seen among republican lawmakers in the last few weeks, there was the chaos of electing a new speaker of the house, an alleged shove between the former speaker -- are all of these characteristics in the new party in the image of donald trump

me now is a rare appearance on cnn, his first on "the source," chief washington correspondent, jonathan carl, who is author of the new book "tired of winning: donald trump in the end of the grand old party." john carl, it's great to have you here. as we're waiting to see what these judges are going to decide, as you heard elliott talking about, part of this centered on, you know, he's been attacking potential witnesses in this case. mike pence, bill barr, general milley. if the panel rules against him, do you think he'd be able to help himself here? >> it's hard to imagine it. i mean, i thought it was very interesting in the proceedings when the judges, in questioning the prosecution, questioning defense counsel, used the example of mike pence. what if trump issued a warning to mike pence before he testified in this case if he were to testify in an open trial. and said, mike pence has a chance, once again, to do the right thing. i mean, we saw what happened on january 6th, when trump put so much pressure on pence that it literally unleashed a mob seeking his execution. and trump, just a coup

here's what he told abc's jonathan carl. a little bit more than two months after the insurrection. . who >> if you look at the real signs of that crowd it was never reported directly. it's the biggest crowd i've ever spoken in front of by far that went back to the washington monument. >> you told him we wereoi to go up to the capitol. >> i was going to. d then secret service said you can't. and by the ti tt i would have been that when igot back i said i wanted to go back i. was thinkingabout going back during the problem to stop the problem. g imyself. secreterce did nolike that idea very much. i could've do that and you know what i would've been very well received. don't forget thele that went to washington that they, in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged. that's why they went. >> of course we know that the 2020 election was mostly not rigged. as for trump that wanted to go to the capital, we did hear about this in detail the january six committee hearing. >> the president said something to t

during his three decades in journalism, jonathan carl earned his reputation as one of the best reportershould know, i spent years fielding tough questions from him, and if he is sounding the alarm, which he is, we shouldn't be

jonathan carl reports that when i spoke with bannon a few days later he would not stop touting trump's performance referring to it as his quote, come, retribution speech. end quote. what i did not realize was that come retribution, according to civil war historians, served as the code words for the confederate secret service spot to take hostage and eventually assassinate president abraham lincoln. today, the former trump appointee, federico cline, was sentenced to more than five years in federal prison for assaulting capitol police officers on january six. the trump appointed judge who sentenced him said he was disturbed that klein who worked in the state department considered it his duty to go to trump's rally to join to protesters at the capitol the trump supporter who ripped the gas mask off capitol police officer daniel hodges in one of the most harrowing january six videos, was sentenced to more than several years in federal prison. meanwhile, two states are currently weighing whether donald trump is disqualified from appearing on the 2024 ballot, under the insurrection closs, th

last week reporting from jonathan carl's new book detailed how behind closed doors, trump has actually mused about prosecuting his enemies. the difference now is his openly stating, without equivocation, that this is indeed his plan. and what's more, he not only wants to target people like joe biden and laetitia james, the latter of which he called to be prosecuted just this week, but even former allies are now in his crosshairs. anyone who hasn't shown absolute funding loyalty in perpetuity. according to the washington post, trump has told advisers and friends in recent months that he actually wants the justice department to investigate one-time officials and allies who have become critical of his time in office, including, but not limited to, is former chief of staff john kelly, and former attorney general bill barr, as well as his ex attorney ty cobb, and former joint chiefs of the half, mark milley. this is less mob boss behavior than out an oat cult leader dictator behavior, which is fitting when you remember that trump literally launched his 2024 bid in waco, texas. yeah. that wa

. >> now recently released audio donald trump speaking with jonathan carl of abc news reveals that trumpht he would be welcomed by -- >> i was going to, and the secret service said you can't. and by the time, i would have, and then when you get back, i said i wanted to go, back i was thinking about going back during the problem stuff, doing it myself. secret service didn't like that idea too much. >> -- >> i would have been very well received -- former trump white house aide cassidy hutchinson. thank you so much for being here with me. every time i watch that footage of you testifying, i just think about a courageous that wasn't how much poise that required. so i hope when you watch, and that's how you feel as well. i wanted to talk to you about trump's words. -- that was essentially their argument, january six was a clear example of people following -- does he recognize the impact of his word? >> thank you for having, meghan. yes, i absolutely believe that he knows the impact it was words and i believe he has -- >> you have heard him say i know people listen to me? >> i think that is ev

here is what he told abc's jonathan carl, a little more than two months after the insurrection. >> if you look at the real si of the crowd, it was never report coecy. it was the biggest crowd i've ever spoken in front of by far. >> really? >> by far. that wendo to the >> you told them you are going to go up to the capital, where you just -- >> know, i was going to, and then the secret service set, you can' then, by the time i would have, and i want to get back, i saw -- i wanted to go back. i was thinking about going back during the problem to stop the problem, doing it myself. secret serviceid not like that, i can tell you thamuch. >> so, so what -- >> anin what, i would have been very well received. don't forget, people that went to washington that day, in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged, that is why they went. >> now, of course, we know the 2020 election was most definitely not rate. as for trump wanting to go to the capitol, we did hear about this in detail with the january six committee hearing. >> the president said something to the effect of,

but given the video and the audiotape that we saw come out in jonathan carl's book, in connection with that with this week, which shows that donald trump knew the power that he had over the crowd, this is going to be a very important part of jack smith's case. showing that donald trump knew how he could influence this group, and didn't do much during that violence. they're basically, what they're saying is, this violence was part of the ultimate plot, alex. it's gonna play a crucial role in this upcoming trial. when it starts in march. as you mentioned. >> okay, ryan reilly. thank you very much for the conversation. appreciate that. also new today, nbc reports growing dysfunction in congress, well a leading house democrat calls out republicans on their lack of civility. >> that's what's going on in the republican party,'s civil war. they had the same march that we had when we were in the majority in the last congress. four votes. we have differences. we are not a monolithic party. but one thing we do have was the scene not to have and that is civility. i don't think that what we've see

john federal and tommy aviator will be here, and jonathan carl will join me to talk about his brand-new book on donald trump. that is full of news. for now, stay right where you are because there's much more news coming up on msnbc. >>e's much mor news coming up tonight, on the n show, five days until the u.s. government faces a possible disastrous shutdown. congressman mark pocan from wisconsin is here to discuss. that plus, he's called for a cessation of hostilities, but all parties in the israel-hamas war are asking about that. and i will speak with the israel and palestine director of human rights watch about possible war crimes. also the big blue wave this week. what biden and democrats can take away from tuesday night's big election win. ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening. i am mehdi hasan. on saturday, president joe biden marked veterans day with a visit to arlington national cemetery in virginia. during his remarks, the president paid tribute to america's veterans and called them, quote, the steel spine of this nation. here is the message the former president, donald trump, chose to deliver las

. >> that was a conversation between jonathan carl and donald trump.t too long after. now, of course, we know that the 2020 election was not rigged. but the former president's insistence that it was is the focus of the federal election interference case against him in his indictment, prosecutors argue that donald trump is responsible for the january 6th 2021 attack on the capitol. and judge tanya chutkan will allow those references to remain in writing, denying a bid from trump's lawyers to strike them from the indictment. the federal election interference trial islay to begin in march of 2024, but that's not the only trial on the trump legal team's 2024 calendar. fulton county district attorney, fani willis, has now requested an august 5th start for her, 2020 election interference trial, against the former president. i'm joined now by msnbc legal analyst, melissa redmon, cisa law professor at the university of georgia, and a former deputy district attorney in fulton county. melissa, you know a little something about fulton county. can we just talk abo

john federal and tommy aviator will be here, and jonathan carl will join me to talk about his brand-new

we're talking about newly released audio of an interview of donald trump by jonathan carl. it shows the ex-president knew full well the power he had over the mob that stormed the capitol. just take a listen. >> but if you look a the real size of that crowd, i was never reported correctly. there were the biggest crowd i've ever spoken in front of by far, really, by far, that went down to the washington -- that went back to the washington mo. >> you told them you were going to g up to the capitol. were you just -- >> i was going to a the secret service said you can't. and by the time i would have and wanted to go back, i was thinking about going back during doing it myself.top the problem secret service didn't like that idea too much. so i've done that. and you know what, i would have been very well received. don't forget, the peopl that went to washington that day in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged. that's why they went. >> trump's desire to go to the capitol was flushed out in incredible detail by the january 6th select committee. white ho

that quote is from jonathan carl's brand-new book "tired of winning: donald trump and the end of the grand old party." it reveals this dramatic collision of efforts to hold the ex-president accountable for his alleged crimes and misdeeds and a candidate who has no hesstation stoking the fires of right-wing extremism and sees winning the presidency as the only way out of his legal troubles. in an essay in "the atlantic" that is adapted from his book, john karl writes this about the decision by the trump campaign to hold its very first rally in waco, texas. the site of a standoff between far-right extremists and the fbi that ended in dozens of deaths. quote, shortly after the rally was announced, i asked steve bannon who had served as the ceo of trump's 2016 campaign and had once again emerged as one of trump's most important advisers why the former president would go to waco for his big campaign reboot. he wasn't coy. quote, we're the trump vidians, he told me with a laugh. mr. trump's comments at that speech, john karl writes this, quote, this was not a campaign speech in any traditi

but that comment looks a little different today as we're now learning from abc news, jonathan carl isote in his note, and he was a copious note taker, as late as christmas eve 2020 that he would not provide over the joint session, "not feeling like i should atent electoral count." "too many questions, too many doubts, too hurtful to my friend. therefore, i won't participate in the certification of the election." we talked about some of the legal implications of this. sometimes you have to bring someone in as close to the room where it happened, and that's a former judge who was involved -- judge, good to see you -- you were involved in the struggle that we're hearing about, this internal struggle that mike pence. had. you were involved in helping him settle that. ultimately, you needed to tweet some stuff out to confirm he did not have the authority to do the things he sort of knew he didn't have the authority to do. what do these revelations make you think? >> this reporting is of enormous significance for the historical record. it is also of enormous significance and importance to t

jonathan: thank you. carl weinberg talked about the same thing in the previous hour.es. jake caffrey of jp morgan said what a year this month has been. still a few days left. november come the nasdaq 100 is up close to 11%. 10% higher this month alone. tom: there is enthusiasm. i think of doug kass in florida. the answer is they are looking at the effervescence, which schiller would call the exuberance. i do not since the exuberance. i am not in an uber someone is talking about the nvidia trade they just made. i am not getting the effervescence that is out there. tom: give a few months. best month on the nasdaq since july 2022. the s&p this morning -.1%. yields going nowhere. we like to tease you about auctions, but i am with you. it is important, showing signs of smaller moves, getting excited about a lack of volatility. have we conquered it? lisa: the bid is coming in. the idea people are liking the idea of longer-term bonds if they feel like there is not necessarily going to be a tremendous swinging yield going forward. at a certain point if we see successful aucti

and i think i'm very struck by the positions of jonathan sumption and carl heneghan, who were both bigtics of lockdown. and looking inquiry, carl looking at the inquiry, carl heneghan taken part in looking at the inquiry, carl heninquiry, taken part in looking at the inquiry, carl heninquiry, doesn't] part in looking at the inquiry, carl heninquiry, doesn't think in the inquiry, he doesn't think that's scope of the that's within the scope of the inquiry it's more should inquiry at all. it's more should we faster and we have locked down faster and should have locked down should we have locked down harder? and it's trying find harder? and it's trying to find out who didn't do that. it's not really looking whether really looking at whether lockdown right lockdown was the first right policy in the first place in terms all the squabbles you terms of all the squabbles you could it's distraction, could say it's a distraction, but actually think it's but i actually think it's very useful understanding what useful to understanding what sort workplace it was during sort of workplace it was durin

source, abc news chief warranting court -- jonathan karl who is the author of the new, book tired of warning, donald trump in the end of grand old party, john, carlgreat to have you here. as we're waiting to see what these judges are going to decide, as you heard elliott talk about, it part of the centered on he's been attacking potential witnesses, mike, pants bill, barr general milley. it's kind of trump's dna to do that, he often does it in very personal terms. if the panel rules against him. do you think he'll be able to help himself here? >> it's hard to imagine it. i thought it was very interesting in the proceedings when the charges in questioning the prosecution questioning defense council, they used the example of mike pence. what if trump issued a warning to mike pence before he testified in this case, if he were to testify in an open trial, and said mike pence is a chance once again to do the right thing. we saw what happened on january 6th when trump put so much pressure on pence, it literally unleashed a mob, seeking his execution. trump just a couple of months after that, told me that the mob was chanting, hang mike pence because th