. >>> we are talking with mark jensen and jonathan chee. they are professors at the university of california and they are studying, low and behold, both areas in religion in the public university. that is news. the berkeley center for the study of religion. you can google that. the programs are over for this academic year but they are coming back next year and will offer things that we can go to in various ways. gentlemen, now we know about your academic background. you are in confucian studies. where did you grow up. mark, let's start with you? >> i grew up in chicago. my father was a professor at the university of chicago that taught psychology and sociology. and i started learning about religion through -- kind of marxist sociological approaches to religion. and kind of critiques of religion. so history of religion and things like that. what was interesting about that was my father, despite the fact that he had this marxist plantation, was not really an anti- religious person. he grew up in rome. he was educated in classical -- latin and