jonathan reiner is back with me because obviously he advised the george w.t years. one official's understanding is he's acting like he just took this exam but he's referring to the one in 2018 he bragged about he time. it's unclear when he took this test. when you look at this, why would president trump undergo a test like this? is that business as usual? >> no, it's not a part of any routine medical or vice press presidential yearly examine. they recommend this testing only when there is a suspicion of impairment. we know he had one two years ago because ronny jackson described it. we didn't know he had one this year. he did actually have it in november, we need to know why. what was their suspicion. >> so you're saying only on suspicion of impairment. advising george w. bush white house for eight years, he had never had to take anything like this. >> actually, general tubb gave a brief mental status exam to the president awakening from sedation after colonoscopy and reversing the 25th amendment. he did a technical quick mental status for that purpose but n

jonathan reiner, he previously advised the busch white house.ised that all the nationwide retail chains are stepping in and requiring masks yet the federal government won't. >> no, i am not surprised. america's corporations are one run by smart people. they have come to understand that not only a mask mandate for their businesses good for their employees to protect the health of their employees, it is also good for their customers. if it is good for their customers and it is good for their employees, it is probably good for business. so it is smart. and i think you will see that become pretty much a universal mandate across corporate america. now, will the nation's governors continue? we are clearly not going to get this leadership from the white house. but finally, we are starting to see corporate america stand up. and i'm not surprised. it's a little late, but i'm thrilled to see night the -- thrilled to see it. >> the president continues to send mixed messages. listen to this. >> do you regret not wearing a mask in public from the start? woul

jonathan reiner, cnn medical analyst and professor of medicine at george washington university. dr.ays good to have you on. it's regrettable how much time we have to spend on this broadcast knocking down falsehoods coming from the white house on this infection but it keeps on happening. the president said the increase in our cases is all happening because it's so massive. this is false, we know this. because dr. giroir his own assistant hhhs secretary, one of the leaders on this, said we're also seeing a rise positivity rates. just for folks at home that means a greater number of people are testing positive as you test more which means the infection is spreading, and just for the shake, dr. reiner, of our viewers. here is arizona, a state hard hit by this. the their tests are up 175%, yes, increasing positive cases up 700%. just explain in the simplest terms why it's a lie to say that the number of cases in this country are rising only because we're testing more? >> sure. you know, early on in a pandemic when there is a lot of virus in the public and when you test people you find a

jonathan reiner, thank you so much. we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >>> coming up, new coronavirus records in south carolina and in georgia where a u.s. senate candidate is now awaiting results from his test after his wife was infected. plus, w. kamau bell digs into the truth on farming in america on a brand-new episode of "united shades of america" airing tomorrow on cnn. o chatte] (mom) come on, hurry up! all systems go? (mission control) 5 4 3 2... and liftoff. (vo) audi e-tron. the next frontier of electric. get audi at your door remote services through participating dealers. - [announcer] food delivery just got more rewarding.ic) (package crashing into ground) now that gruhhub gives you rewards when you order. (dog barking) did you order tacos again? (device beeping) boom, rewarded with a perk like $5.00 off. ordering dinner for the family? voila! rewarded with free delivery and a side of quiet. grubhub gives you rewards for rewarding yourself, with food. (doorbell ringing) - [crowd] grubhub! (scooter horn beepin

jonathan reiner, thank you. >>> now, i want to bring in the mayor of miami-dade county, carlos jimenez, who is expanding now his mandatory mask order. welcome to the show, mayor jimenez. i'm glad you're here. >> hi, how are you doing? >> i'm, you know, considering that we just have passed the 50,000 threshold of single-day cases, i think we're all scratching our heads trying to figure out how we're doing, but you're now requiring face masks countywide in all public spaces inside and also outdoors. and yet the governor, the governor of florida, ron desantis, is refusing to do a mandate of this just over the entire state. and you florida mayors are now really out there on your own, aren't you? >> no, not really. the governor of the state of florida has allowed us to have local rules here. in miami-dade county along with southeast florida, he knows it's a little bit different down here so he's allowed us to do things a little differently, and we have had a mask order here for over two months. unfortunately, what happens is that a lot of our citizens are not taking that seriously. so, toda

jonathan reiner who was in the white house, the medical team for eight years. so, sanjay, just going to say, i'm pretty disturbed about the whole portrait thing. i don't understand why anybody would have any time to focus on anything like that anybody at any level anywhere. but as i take a deep breath and try to move beyond how disturbed i am by that, the president has not had a coronavirus related event in ten days and we know about the internal document prepared which says opposite of what he said publicly. it recommends they pause or roll back reopening in 18 states, red zone coronavirus states, yet the president saying the opposite. >> yeah, look, the -- i think what's in these documents is pretty much reflective of what i think most people frankly know at this point as they sort of reflect those original gating c criteria that came out from the white house, giving these states the idea of how to safely reopen and were basically tossed out the window as soon as they were released. it was basically words, not actions, that came out. we looked at these docume

jonathan reiner, director of the cardiac cath lab at gw who directed the white house medical team under george w. bush. 15 days to go from 3 to 4 million cases and positives far outweighing the testing here. the president though still saying this is because we test more and saying today if we had no testing we would show very few cases, as if, you know, that just deny the reality so it goes away. what are facts here? >> yeah, i mean, that is absolutely a completely denial of reality, putting your head in the sand. obviously the testing is not causing people to become infected. there are a lot of opeople infected, probably ten times as many as we're seeing. we're definitely not doing enough testing. the one thing is we're doing so little testing that it's not accomplishing what we want to accomplish in terms of finding people, being able to isolate them, quarantine their context, and bring the numbers down. if you had a good testing program, not only would you be finding people who are symptomatic and sick, you would be doing surveillance testing to people who are asymptomatic testing. y

jonathan reiner, for being with us. happy fourth of july. >> my pleasure. >> and enjoy your family and staying indoors. you can tune in, because we'll have plenty of entertainment for you here on cnn tonight too if you do want to see fireworks instead of going out. >>> and moments ago, we saw a military flyover and this time, over philadelphia where u.s. air force thunder birds along with the b-1, the b-2, the b-52 bombers as well as the f-15 and the f-35 fighter jets, they're all flying over the city to commemorate its role in the birth of the united states. these planes are flying in five waves at about 1,000 feet above the ground. they will fly over independence hall and the liberty bell as they make their way to washington, d.c. you're watching cnn. we'll be right back. ever since i got this little guy, i felt like i was just constantly cleaning up his hair. then, i got my paws on the swiffer sweeper. it's a game changer. these heavy duty dry cloths pick up a crazy amount of hair! this is all you. we stopped cleanin

jonathan reiner, professor of medicine at george washington university. he also advised the bush white house. dr. reiner, cnn's reporting is that aides had to practically beg the president to do this photo op, and they believe so many americans take their cues from the president so they hope that this will send the right message. do you think seeing the president finally in a mask could encourage others to wear one as well? >> well, i hope so. but what i want to hear from the president is something very simple. i would love for the president to come out to a microphone wearing the mask and say this simple phrase. my fellow americans, it's your patriotic duty to wear a mask whenever you go out in public. do what i do. wear a mask. and then to model the behavior afterwards. you know, wearing a mask in the hospital is really a hollow gesture. we wear masks all day long in the hospital, and in some ways, the hospital is like a holy place, and coming to the hospital and not wearing a mask would be akin to going to a mosque and not taking your shoes off or a sy

jonathan reiner, a pleasure you have to you on. thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you. >>> the presidential election is 100 days. there are new polls showing the president trailing. but a lot can happen in those 100 days. >>> sports in the time of coronavirus. how does playing without real fans in the assistants affect the athletes? t to you by lysol. wash your hands often with soap and water and monitor your health. always use the inside of your elbow to cough or sneeze. be sure to cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover around others. and keep about 6 ft distance from them. and remember to clean and disinfect frequently touched surfaces daily. the best way forward is together. lysol. what it takes to protect. ♪ new fixodent ultra dual power provides you with an unbeatable hold and strong seal against food infiltrations. fixodent. and forget it. i'm a talking dog. the other issue. oh...i'm scratching like crazy. you've got some allergic itch with skin inflammation. apoquel can work on that itch in as little as 4 hours, whether it's a new or chronic

jonathan reiner. gentlemen, good evening to you. john, a big convention is everything trump loves but today finally forced to really face reality. the virus is winning, he's retreating. >> no question about it. and i think the announcement today spoke louder than anything the president has said all week as he's resumed these briefings, you know, telling people to wear masks after not doing so. telling people it's going to get worse before it gets better. then he had a different tone yesterday and said a bunch of thing that were not true at the briefing. but this was the big event of these briefings this week. the president wanted that event. he angry when the state of north carolina under a democratic governor told him he couldn't have it, have it in the way he wanted to have it so he said i'm going to go to a place that will let me have the kind of event i want. found florida where you've got a sympathetic republican governor ron desantis, a republican run city in jacksonville. but in the last few days the sheriff had said it was t

jonathan reiner, thank you. >> my pleasure. >>> the president is demanding schools reopen, but some teachers aren't sure it's safe. here's an example of why. three teachers in arizona shared a classroom this summer all kron tracked the vv kcoronavirus. one of them died. her story next in the "cnn newsroom." technologies advisor. me too. me too. and if you're a small business, we're with you. standing by you every step of the way. bye bye. ♪when you have nausea, ♪upset stomach, diarrheaon,♪ pepto bismol coats and soothes your stomach for fast relief and now, get the same fast relief in a delightful chew with new pepto bismol chews. >>> how, if at all, will teachers and children go back to school this fall? the white house state governors, principals, parents, debating risk of reopening schools while the coronavirus racks up hundreds chs nhundred hundreds of cases and deaths each day. all contracting the virus, and one teacher, it cost her her life. nick nick -- what can you tell us about those three teachers in arizona. >> reporter: this tragedy is a story about how classrooms can be reopened

jonathan reiner is director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital and craig spencer is here, director of global health at new york presbyterian columbian university medical center. thank you so much. dr. reiner, let's start with you. over 3 million coronavirus cases, more than 132,000 deaths in this country. this president is pretending that this pandemic is over overruling his medical experts. dangerous. >> yeah, super dangerous. it's almost as if he's trying to sabotage the recovery. look, from the very beginning the president has made the wrong calculus. what he's tried to do is make believe the virus was going to go away. you know, we had 15 cases, it will soon go to zero when it gets warmer. the virus will go away. masks. he didn't see the need for it. he said last week testing is overrated. he urged -- despite the fact that the cdc developed really good guidelines for states opening he urged the states to open early, which is why we are where we are now. so all along the president has had the wrong instinct. his instinct to sort of try and get

jonathan reiner the director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. thank you for joining us, doctor. in just four weeks the u.s. went from 2 million to 3 million coronavirus cases, but the president says that we're doing great. in what world is 133,000 dead americans a sign of a great job? >> in a fantasy world. in the president's fantasy world. in his sort of distorted reality that he's tried to create so that he can re-present a really horrible situation in order for him to attempt to get re-elected. in no part of the real world are we doing well. the virus is really out of control in the south and southwest. as has been mentioned all evening we're running out of hospital capacity in places like texas and arizona. it's really dire straits there. to hear the president's press secretary try and really distort the crisis in the hospitals by somehow trying to allege that the hospitalizations were elective procedures is really disturbing. when we report hospitalizations we're reporting covid hospitalizations. really, one of the only few states that doe

jonathan reiner. you know, director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. pleasure to have both of you here. john, if i can start with you. i mean, you sigh thee that we'v now top republicans, including vice president pence. they've all seen the light. and they're now talking about the wisdom of wearing a mask. this epiphany, now, that everyone seems to be having, except for the president of the united states. john, why do you think the president is not, at least, acknowledging the epiphany, let alone getting on board? >> laura, it's a bizarre situation. and all those republicans are talking to the president, as if he were a child. this is irrational by the president. it is self-defeating. it counters his objectives of getting the economy back in shape, resolving the public health crisis, and re-election. the only conclusion you can draw, since there's no more scientific debate. it's unanimous, even within his own government, his own aides. the only conclusio

and i want to bring in cnn global affairs analyst, susan glasser, and jonathan reiner, director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. good to see you. i haven't seen you in a while. welcome back to the program. doctor, good to see you. long time no see, meaning i saw you last night. so let's start with this.

jonathan reiner is the director of the cardiac program the george washington hospital and david axelrod, former senior adviser to president obama. good evening, thank you so much for joining us. good to see you. let's talk about encouraging masks. holding telerallies. acknowledging there's a problem in florida and texas. why did it take more than 140,000 people to die americans to die for the president to get to this point? >> i think the president is all about the president. and finally when he realized that the way the pandemic has rolled out in the united states was going to cost him the election, now he find there's a sense of urgency. the cdc recommended masks for everyone on april 3. 108 days ago. on april 3 the u.s. had 7,600 deaths. in this interim with the president refusing to embrace universal mask wearing in the country. he still hasn't done that. he hasn't forcefully told the country, if you go out wear a mask. in the interim of 108 days, over 130,000 americans have died. my cousin, one of my closest friend's father. how many tens of thousands of people have died as a conse

jonathan reiner. dr. reiner and the director of the cardiac catheterization prom. i'm sure you saw that briefing today, so let's talk. more than 141,000 american haves died from this virus. months later, the president finally acknowledging the problem. how long do you think this scripted, more realistic trump will last? >> well, you wouldn't bet on it lasting a whole long time, because as he said in that bite that you played, that's something i don't like saying, that things are getting worse before they get better. but i do think we have toe acknowledge that whatever his motivation, the fact that the president adopted a more realistic tone, the fact that he encouraged people to wear masks, the fact that he girded people for the challenge ahead in getting on top of this resurgent virus, that is a step forward. that is positive from a public health perspective william a know that the reason he did it is because his poll numbers were cratering. he had two polls last week that showed him down in double digits to joe biden. he's getting terrible marks for handling the

jonathan reiner is the director of the cardiac catheterization program. gentleman, i'm grateful to have both of you on. dr. reiner, you first. we have known about the virus for months and today the country recorded the most new cases in a single day -- 58,699. shamefulf sha shameful. feels like we're back at the beginning of this pandemic. >> and it can't have to be this wait a minute i think if you look at the states that have succeeded in really dropping the number of cases dramatically, places like new york and new jersey, massachusetts, they did it through extensive testing, they close down for a very long time and they didn't open until they were ready to open. new york is just in the front of the process of slowly opening now. the states that are in trouble now through the south and southwest did not do that. testing was inadequate, and they opened while cases were starting to rise. and now they need the will to close. they need to political will to close. they need to political will to get the entire population to wear masks. we can do this. this i

jonathan reiner, the director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. gentlemen, good evening. every night i can hardly believe i'm reporting these numbers and reporting what the president is doing to either ignore them or to say something really whacky is the word about it. john, 150,000 dead americans. 50 times more americans than died on 9/11. and the president was in a hot spot today without a mask, no social distancing. why isn't this president doing everything in his power to stop this carnage? >> don, i think he's made a psychological turn away from the coronavirus and he cannot look back. he can't make himself do it. he would have to admit error. he would have to recalibrate. and that's not something i think his ego can handle. he was forced last week into recommending that people wear masks. that was positive when it happened, but he doesn't -- he's made plain he doesn't really mean it. and when you see him advancing these crackpot theories about hydroxychloroquine and advancing kookie doctors who say you don't need to wear masks, it

jonathan reiner, advised the white house under george w. bush, the medical team, and our onoda na bash. so, dr. reiner, we don't know where herman cain got this virus. we do know that me hoddaled trump's behavior of shunning masks. when he posted what he posted about people being fed up, that's consistent with the president who's mocking and scorning people were wearing a mask on social media. herman cain attended the indoor rally obviously. is there any doubt in your mind the president bears some responsibility for this through his position on masks sf. >> i think the president bears responsibility for the deaths of te tens of thousands of people in this country. this president has scorned the use of masks until basically today. this president has stated that testing is overrated. he's urged states to open before they were ready. in maybe some of the most behavior, he brought thousands of people together in tulsa and in phoenix and in mt. rushmore during a surge in the pandemic demonstrating really just a grave disregard for the health of

jonathan reiner. they're both here. dr.einer is director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. good evening, to both of you. kaitlan, last week, it seems as if the president was actually going to be more realistic about this pandemic. so why is he pushing governors to open up? because i think, like, kellyanne conway, didn't she say, like, some people, the governors opened up too fast and against our rules? and blah, blah, blah. all the numbers know that is how we got into this mess, in the first place. what is going on? >> yeah, you're right. kellyanne conway did say the reason the president's starting these briefings back is because they felt some states opened up too soon. and then, we saw the president, today, revert back to what he had been saying. saying he believed there were some governors who weren't doing enough to open up. that they could be doing more, and they weren't going far enough. even as that comes as dr. birx has been going around saying that there are certain ar

jonathan reiner, director for cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. welcome back to the program. doctors, good to see you. long time, no see. meaning, i saw you last night. so let's start with this. doctor, president trump was down in florida. okay. he had a fundraiser. he had a meeting to talk about drug trafficking. would you have suggested that he maybe focus on the pandemic that is killing americans, every day, while he is visiting florida which is an epicenter? >> first, if i was advising the president, i would tell him to stop traveling. every time he goes somewhere, he puts people at risk. so you have to think about it. the president travels with, you know, domestically, you know, there might be 200 people that travel with him. a lot of people go in advance. we've already seen what happens to advance people and secret service agents, when they travel to venues during a pandemic. look at -- look at what happened to his team from tulsa. look what happened to the vice president's team in phoenix. he puts people at risk. and why would you put peop

jonathan reiner, director of the cath lab at george washington university hospital and advised the team under george w. bush. round two, i guess, gentleman i wanted to ask you about tonight's briefing. sanjay, tonight the president, he put a lot of blame for the surge in cases which i was -- i found curious. i wanted to hear where he thought the problem was coming from. he did mention young people going to bars. that's one thing we know people have talked about. but he also blamed protesters and spent quite a bit of time blaming mexico. is there any data to back ythat up? >> no, i don't think there's any data specifically on mexico, you know. i heard him mention that as well. we actually looked up to see if there was any data on that, and i didn't find any. this is a simple sort of thing to understand in term of viral dynamics. when people are more closely clustered together, unmasked and they're spending duration of time together is over 10 to 15 minutes, that's when they're most likely to spread the virus. a couple of things can help reduce the likelihood of that transmission. wearing

jonathan reiner, from george washington university hospital. >>> good evening to one and all and welcome as well. dr. reiner, you first. more than 130,000 people have died from coronavirus in the country, dr. fauci is warning that we need immediate action. president won't even acknowledge the virus is a problem. how bad could it get? well, it's already pretty bad. the president today and over the weekend, by really diminishing the risks to people of the virus, by telling the country that virtually everybody who gets the virus just does fine. there's really no harm to anybody. 99%. basically encourages people in the country to break social distancing, and to ignore face masks, and encourages people to put each other and their communities in harm's way, so, it can get a lot worse. the parties of this country that have done really well, the northeast in particular, parts of the midwest. have done so through really extensive testing. all of the states that have done well are in the top ten in testing. whereas the states in the southwest, places like texas, and arizona, are in really the bott

jonathan reiner, he's the director of the catheterization program at george washington university. dr. reiner, always a pleasure. thank you, sir. in the middle of this deadly pandemic, the white house continues to attack our top infectious disease expert. this is what dr. fauci said in a new interview. published in instyle.com. >> it's pretty tough to walk a tightrope while trying to get your message out and people are trying to pit you against the president. this virus is killing hundreds of americans a day and dr. fauci is dealing with this nonsense? >> it's a terrible distraction. you know, what we need now is leadership. so we haven't had leadership from the political sphere in washington now for a long time. and that left us with the task force. but then the task force was sidelined. and now dr. fauci, who is really the only member of the task force who doesn't believe in spin, who tells it like it is, i think that comes from his brooklyn background. now he's being pushed away because he's the person who is willing to tell the president what the president doesn't want to hear.

jonathan reiner. he is director of catheterization program at george washington university hospital. good evening to both of you. before the break, kaitlan, i said we had some breaking news. you have new reporting tonight about a positive coronavirus case at the white house. tell us what you know. >> yeah, don. white house staffers got an e-mail tonight telling them not to panic or have any kind of alarm. but they wanted to tell them that a staffer who works in one of the cafeterias on the white house grounds has tested positive for coronavirus. now, this is not the one that's in the actual west wing. that's the white house mess where staffers typically go. but there are two restaurants. one inside the building where the vice president's office is, where the national security council staffers are and hundreds of others. and then, there is another one in the new executive office building which is also here on the white house grounds. both of those have been closed after a staffer tested positive. and t

jonathan reiner. sanjay, you have to go through calendar here.t looks like the china ban didn't make a difference in the u.s. the virus was circulating before the european ban took effect. >> and then we lost a month because all this stuff was happening and we didn't act. and there was plenty of evidence at that point, especially based on the evidence coming out of china. we didn't do anything about it. we stint start testing. we didn't start thinking about lockdowns, proposals for lockdowns in certain areas were made in february but largely ignored by the white house. so, i think it was that month. we go back and look at this, erin, you know, most of february, a little bit of march, where we just lost that time. it wasn't until the middle of march where they finally started to talk about stay-at-home orders in ernst in some ways. so, lack of testing, lack of action for those four or five weeks were important. >> and still paying the price here as 138,000 deaths and climbing, a number which seemed incomprehensible at that time. today when we look

jonathan reiner, card cardiologist. you heard the president blaming dr.auci and trying to find fault with him. what do you say to that? >> dr. fauci is the only person in this administration that seems to speak the truth. and to tell the seriousness of this pandemic and also to point a path forward. i listen to dr. fauci because he tells it like it is. and the way it is is a roaring pandemic affecting large parts of the country now, particularly the south and southwest. parts of the country still remain relatively stable. the northeast and midwest seem to be stable and doing well. but what dr. fauci says is painfully honest. everyone needs to wear a mask. we need to continue to test. we need to put the fires out. there is -- this is not going to go away by itself, and only when we have leaders like dr. fauci and we listen to them do we have a chance of limiting the carnage. >> and the president point blank said, i disagree with dr. fauci, and the president says, i think we're in a good place. dr. fauci says, we are knee deep in the first wave. what do you

jonathan reiner, director for cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospitalo the program. doctors, good to see you. long time, no see. meaning, i saw you last night. so let's start with this. doctor, president trump was down in florida. okay. he had a fundraiser. he had a meeting to talk about drug

jonathan reiner is director of the cardiac catheterization program at george washington university hospital. gents, hello to you. ryan, it's been a minute. why don't i call on you first. >> how are you? >> i'm doing well. thank you so much. i hope you are, as well. coronavirus is spiraling out of control in this country. new daily cases are at record highs. the president barely talked about the pandemic all week. and at the white house, they are moving around portraits of previous presidents so the president doesn't have to see them. what on earth is he doing? >> i think they made a decision weeks ago that they would just move on from this, that what they call hot spots could be contained, and the death count though ticking upward and on every chyron and every news network, as long as hospitals weren't overflowing and as well as other images on tv weren't bad, that it would be this kind of silent killer that people would move away from. that was obviously a catastrophic mistake. and they are now just delayed in reversing it and returning to the obvious methods that they used in the early sp

jonathan reiner, director of cardiac cath lab at g.w. who advised the white house under george w. bush, the medical team, and dr. ashish jha, our national testing expert at this point. dr. reiner, the president couldn't defend the person identified as a doctor in the video. she claimed people shouldn't wear masks because hydroxychloroquine is a cure. he went on to talk about the reasons why he thinks it's fine and didn't get him, hopefully won't get anybody else. and then kaitlan, when she pressed him about it, he walked out. he said, i happen to think it works in the early stages. many doctors think it's good. you're a doctor. talk to doctors every day. what do you say? >> well, let's start with the science first. we know i think unequivocally that patients with covid-19, sadly hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. i would love it to work. everyone would love something like that to work. it doesn't work. there have been three scale randomized trial, cover trial, solidarity trial, and organization trial. all three trials stopped. the drug doesn't work. the fact that the president conti

jonathan reiner, director of the cardiac cath lab at george washington university and advised the medical team under george w. bush at the white house and of course gloria borger. the president retreats, calls governor cooper of north carolina backward and behind and too bad for you. now cancelling that convention in jacksonville. but still pushing to reopen schools and saying i've got $100 billion but i'm only going to give it to you if you reopen. these are two completely seemly diametrically opposed messages. are they? >> yeah, they are, and they're also at odds with what the coronavirus task force has been saying. you know, when they talk about schools, i mean they've been very clear on this issue, the same guidance that they've been talking about with regard to florida. if you have a lot of viral spread in your community and the numbers are going up, going up in the community at least five days in a row. that is not the time to open schools. we do know as you mentioned, erin, we do know kids are less likely to get sick. but we say once you get to 10 years old, you're just as likely t

i want to go to jonathan reiner, card yolgs who advised the white house team under george w.ush, and dr. william schaffner from vanderbilt university medical center. dr. schaffner, let me start with you. you worked for the cdc. the president says he knows better than the cdc. he's threatening them with this meeting, says the guidelines are too tough and they're going to come up with new ones. yesterday he said he knows better than dr. fauci. he's overruling science at every turn. how dangerous is this at this point? >> oh, erin, it's very sad and it is dangerous. you know, this country has been led in the past through epidemics and when there's threat of new infection such as ebola and zika and the cdc has done an absolutely stellar job. it has the reputation of being the finest such agency in the world by far. and it has been pushed aside and down by the political leadership in washington. that's very sad. and there's terrific confusion out there because the cdc is trying very hard to get a solid public health message out, and there's a black editorial pen coming from the wh

jonathan reiner who advised the white house for eight years, white house medical team and at the cardiac lab. gloria borger is also with me, our chief political analyst. the administration continuing to attack dr. fauci who fought back today. one senior official just tweeted out late last night a cartoon mocking fauci as spewing ridiculousness. fauci today responded you can trust medical sources. i'm one of them, you can trust me. you saw the set, his jaw, his mouth. he's not even veil ld. you know him as a fellow doctor. what goes through your head when you hear him say that at this point? >> well, i think it's been very disspiriting for dr. fauci. i talk to him on a regular basis. he still takes calls. he's still trying to be out there trying to get this knowledge and this information across. but it's tough. i mean, erin, i think there's two things that really strike me. one is that the idea of not trusting public health figures is not totally new. i remember when i was covering ebola back in 2014 there was some of this. there was an article in "the new england journal of medicine" abo

jonathan reiner. he's advised the white house medical team under president george w. bush. gentleman, it's good to see you again. sanjay, one of the things we know because of reporting, people i've spoken to have said this as well, is the thing that changed the tone, made the decision to have the briefing, is polling. so, that is one thing that we do know. this was a press conference, more a press conference than a task force briefing, i think we could say. none of the task force members were there. dr. fauci told cnn, as kaitlan said, he wasn't even invited. the strangest thing was that dr. birx was right outside. i don't even understand that. was this what you were looking for and to hear tonight? >> well, you know, it's one of these things where i think it's good that there is some sort of acknowledgment from the president about this. you know, where i live, kate, there's still a population of people who still thinks this is pretty much a hoax, this whole thing. so, the fact that the president is out there talking about it and saying it's going to get worse before it get

jonathan reiner, director of cardiac cath lab who advised the white house, and dr. ashish jha. dr. reiner, the president goes from i'm not going to let anyone see me in a mask and give them the pleasure and wouldn't wear to now everyone needs to wear a mask. he went from we have it well under control, it's going away, it's miniscule, it's gone, it's leaving to it's a terrible disease. he said the former comments on these things for five and a half months and he's now saying the latter for a few days. but the press secretary says there's been no change in tone. what does that do to public trust? >> well, it erodes it. words matter. and the words of a president matter a lot. erin, when i see a patient after a heart attack, when i see them in clinic, i weigh my words very carefully because i know they're listening. and if i need the patient to lose weight and get their blood pressure under control and stop smoking, i say it explicitly. but for the first four to five months of this pandemic, the president said that testing was overrated, that masks weren't for him, that the virus was a

jonathan reiner director of the cardiac katherine lab at gw university hospital who advised the medicaleam under president george w. bush and dr. larry brilliant epidemiologist and cnn medical analyst. let me start with you, dr. brilliant. there is a lot to talk about here but first the whole issue where you have dr. birx and dr. fauci saying maybe you need to pause or roll back or don't open the bars or all of these things and the president says, the governors need to open up the states. that they're not opening. is that a good idea right now? >> no it is a terrible idea. dr. fauci just said we might see tens of thousands of americans dying. it is not if it is just when now. the virus is everywhere in the united states. we have to stop playing whack-a-mo and stop playing this game of pingponging back and forth between new york is hot now and now it's the southern states. now it's going to be the middle states. we have to have a national program, a coherent, singular national strategy. if we coordinated our activity and all of the states didn't close down but slowed down for four or fiv

jonathan reiner, director of the cardiac cath lab at george washington hospital. dr. shaf nerks let me start with you. i want to show again the video from the president's events today. and you know, no mask, no social distancing for a lot of people, which is deeply troubling. and former energy secretary rick perry presumably coming in contact with the president, would have been tested, but no example of being set. the vips, no one wearing them at all. and the dr. ronny jackson, no mask. what goes through your mind when you see this dr. schaffner? >> the three d's, depressing, distressing, and as we say in our family, d-u-m, dumb. it's inappropriate. we should be wearing masks, all of us all the time. we're not going to get this virus under control until we all do that. and i mean all of us from the top to the bottom, from maine to southern california, all across the country. we really have to do that. 6 foot distancing. where are they there in that large group? they shouldn't be gathering in groups. >> it doesn't make sense. you know, and it just lends itself why thes

jonathan reiner, a professor of medicine at george washington university. also with us, william haseltine, chair and president of access health international. great to have both of you. dr. reiner, i want to start with what i see as a great illustration of the polar opposite ends that some governors are approaching this versus dr. deborah birx. so, dr. deborah birx tried to sound the alarm about what is about to happen in tennessee. she believes we are on the cusp of seeing exploding exponential growth there, whereby numbers would double every day. so, here is the warning that she sounded yesterday. >> it is this very moment where we can change the trajectory of the epidemic, before it goes into full what we call logrhythmic spread, as we have seen across the south. and we have found that if you all wear masks, all tennesseeans, in every public area, and you protect the individuals with co-morbidities, if you stop going to bars, and indeed, close the bars, we can have as big an impact on decreasing new cases. >> and i'll just quote to you what the governor

jonathan reiner director of the cardiac katherine lab at gw also advised president george w. bush's medical team for eight years in the white house. the white house has been making a concerted effort to discredit dr. fauci. the president and fauci haven't spoken in months. fauci has been left -- we just saw him at this panel, these sort of panel events think tanks or universities are holding. that is the only way we hear from him not in interviews on television. how much does this concern you right now? >> it is very destructive. if you're trying to get the public to believe a fantasy you have to discredit the truth tellers and that is what the president is doing. over the last few months, the white house coronavirus task force has really been pushed to the side. a lot of the initial functions of the task force in terms of coordinating a nationwide response have been out sourced to the states. so the states are primarily responsible for testing now. although the cdc and the federal government issued guidelines, really careful guidelines for opening the statements. the states

jonathan reiner, former vice president dick cheney's cardiologist. also with us, dr. mark spino an emergency medical professional at jackson hospital in miami. it was striking to hear dr. birx list those cities, many of which are not in the south or west and to hear the president say, aside from the south and west, we are doing great. which is a strange formulation to begin with. how do you see it? >> right. and, well, i see it closer to the way dr. birx sees it. but i would like to hear dr. birx tell that to the country. the problem, when the president articulates these really unrealistically rose yy scenari that we're doing well in most places and places that aren't doing so well will get better quickly, that resonates around the country. and that impacts how people react on a day-to-day basis. that results in fewer people social distancing, fewer people wearing masks. and that's how we've gotten to the fact that we now have empty baseball stadiums and no political conventions. so rather than painting these unrealistic, super great scenarios, the president should be