the man who ran the interrogation program was jose rodriguez, a c.i.a.n latin america who rose to become head of the clandestine service, the cia's dark side. when the agency's secret program was revealed, it was widely criticized, but the blunt-spoken puerto rican-born rodriguez is fighting back. he's written a book, a defense of the interrogations called "hard measures," and tonight, you will hear his side of the story. it's the first time someone this close to the program, this accountable has gone public explaining why techniques that had long been condemned by the u.s. as torture were employed. >> jose rodriguez: for the first time in our history, we had an enemy come into our homeland and kill 3,000 people. i mean, that was a huge deal. people jumping from the towers to their death. the people running away from the cloud of dust, terrified out of their mind. this was a threat, and we had to throw everything at it. >> stahl: which is why jose rodriguez says that, when he ran the c.i.a.'s counter-terrorist center, he came up with the idea of employin

in a "60 minutes" interview jose rodriguez tells lesley stahl about waterboarding the man who planned those attacks. khalid shaikh mohammed was strapped to a board, tilted head down and had water poured on his face to stimulate drowning, but mohammed was tough. interrogators had to pour more than 180 times. >> this is an individual who probably didn't give a rat's ass about having water poured on his face. >> he never believed for one second you were going to kill him? >> no. let me just tell you, khalid sheikh mohammed would use his fingers to count the number of seconds because he knew in all likelihood we would stop at ten. so, this doesn't sound like a person who is afraid of dying. >> if he's is sitting there counting off, he knows you're not going to kill him, he knows he's not going to drown, then why do it? what's the point? >> i think the cumulative effect of waterboarding and sleep deprivation and everything else that was done, essentially, got to him. >> so, what happens? does he break down? does he weep? does he fall apart? >> no. he gets a good night's sleep. he gets his

now you want to know the actual e-mails that jose rodriguez sent inside the c.i.a.?e, the heat from destroying these tapes is nothing compared to what it would be if the tapes ever got into the public domain. i thought you had nothing to hide. but internally you're saying, oh my god imagine what would happen if these tapes got out what it would do to us. live to this new e-mail. if it was taken out of context it would make us look terrible. it would be devastating to us. i thought you had nothing to hide. i thought it would be devastating to you. that's because you tortured them and it was terrible. how do you justify destroying these tapes? i love how he got authorization. >> one day you said to the hell with it. i have this authority. i'll do it. >> one day i finally called in my supervisors and lawyers and said, tell me, tell me again that this legal. and tell me that i was the authority to do this. the answer i received was yes and yes, i said, well, then i am going to make this decision and do it myself. >> they were destroyed. >> yes. >> that's part of the reas

could have potentially been crucial the building a case against former president bush or against jose rodriguez for that matter yet president obama despite all the talk of hope and change and stuff let him go free as a bird and that's not on now rodriguez is said to profit off of his misdeeds he will be releasing a book called hard measures and that's going to detail his involvement. the cia's torture program and the subsequent cover up so rodriguez brazenly admits to destroying the tapes even brags of the cia's torture program and his cover up saved lives while he openly brags about his obstruction of justice the agency seems to have no problem with the book which brings us back to this whole inconsistency issue the agency does go after others who publish criticism of its torture program or resources for such material people like john kiriakou people like james risin they are treated as enemies of the state and bradley manning but the cia doesn't take exception to rodriguez's book because it makes obscene defense spending and unaccountable programs look necessary own also helps keep american v

do you know i mean gap in law you know they said i think so and i think yeah i saw you talk to jose rodriguez who says absolutely this worked who says ok i was in charge of the torture program yes of course he's going to say but the play remark was in charge of it was great we got to be in jail and we got information and it saved lives but you know what he liberal jose rodriguez the guy that was in charge of the torture program who makes that claim and you know what choice it was he cannot can't he has happened to the shore they fed him and your water boarded him over one hundred times you know what he did he counted on his fingers because he knew it was going to and he looked the man so he's saying we should do harsher interrogation should we well i'm sure. i'm saying that you guys really say you know what we can meet three thousand americans let me ask you about a thirty thousand how many have to die. before you say it's ok for archives you can send our thousand again to whatever we can tailor ssion of the population on a per capita basis who has had more civilians die is really the united

jose rodriguez broke his silence in a "60 minutes" interview.y stahl they have legal clearance for everything they did from waterboarding on down. >> reporter: the authorities came from the justice department in an opinion later dubbed one of the torture memos that detailed what was permissible. >> we went to the border of legality. we went to the border that was within legal bounds. >> reporter: even after you got the justice department legal office to give you this okay, you kept going back and back with each thing you did, over and over. >> we wanted to make sure that the rest of government was with us. >> reporter: how does the waterboarding you engaged in, how did that work? >> the detainee was strapped to an inclined board with his feet up, so that no water would go -- >> reporter: head was back? >> so his head was back. and a cloth was placed over the mouth and nose. and water was applied -- >> reporter: so he couldn't breathe through his nose? >> when he was saturated, then the air flow would be stopped. >> reporter: and he'd have the se

. >> leslie stall is here to tell us what else jose rodriguez is saying. >> and louis armstrong's final recording lost for 40 years. ♪ >> you're watching "cbs this morning." ♪ >> announcer: this portion of "cbs this morning" sponsored by preen. preen stops weeds before they start. visit preen.com. [ dad ] what's that? you got mommy a mother's day present? oh, i totally agree... ...she is the best mommy ever. [ male announcer ] save up to 30% on these diamond fashions for mom at kay. the number-one jewelry store in america. ♪ every kiss begins with kay i just wanted to say a few words. first of all, thank you for the lovely meal jane. mom. and let's hear it for sara's paper mache eiffel tower. it's the washington monument. and dad, i'll never forget what you said to me this morning. you said "brian, it's 11:15. get up." so maybe this is just the cake talking but let's celebrate! [ male announcer ] celebrate the little things. buy any kfc 10 pc meal or larger and get a free double chocolate chip cake. buy any kfc 10 pc meal or larger and, just like toddlers, puppies need food made for the

this man, jose rodriguez was the one who said, we need harsh techniques and went out and developed the these things. it wasn't just waterboarding, it was sleep deprivation, food manipulation, all of it, slapping. he went out and built that program. he says that they -- that that program resulted in all kinds of discoveries and stoppings of plots and things like that. and it's a dispute that we journalists can't resolve because these interrogations are still classified. so, we can't go and see yet what the truth is. >> what came out of either technique. i would imagine at this point, given everything you've said about him and his feelings, he's probably not very happy with the way things are handled with the current administration. >> oh, no. he shows his, i would say, contempt for president obama, who stopped the interrogation program and said it was torture. which he denies. he says we went right up to the border, right up to the border, but everything was legal. he and the cia have gotten a legal opinion that what they were doing was legal, the waterboarding, sleep deprivation, slapp

. >> shepard: his name is jose rodriguez. he is the former head of the cia clandestine services.uts it, the guys who do the dirty work. he even admits he he did, indeed, okay the destruction of audio and video evidence of the waterboarding. he says did he it in order to prevent al qaeda from attacking the interrogators. laura ingle is live in our newsroom in new york city. laura. >> jose rodriguez and other supporters of the agency say at lease auto% of the cia's knowledge of al qaeda's operative and the network structure came from the enhanced interrogation program right after 9/11. in his new book rodriguez reveals he was tired of sitting around waiting for someone in washington to get the courage to, quote: get rid of ugly visuals. rodriguez also charging in a 60 minutes interview that the obama administration has become too reliant on the drone campaign. >> we don't capture anybody anymore, leslie. the defaulted ops option of this administration has been to kill all prisoners. take no prisoners. >> the drones? >> the drones. how can it be more ethical to kill people rather th

we'll hear from jose rodriguez. and we'll mark international jazz day with musician herbie hancock.t will do it for the "cbs morning news" this monday. thanks for watching. have a good day. we'll see you tomorrow. we'll see you tomorrow. ,,,, >>> good morning everyone. it is monday april 30th. >>> right now, interstate 680 is closed in both

we have jose rodriguez. the head of the c.i.a.'destine service, saying waterboarding, sleep deprivation, nudity, all of that worked on even the toughest terrorist, khalid sheikh mohammed. do you buy that? >> he's entitled to his opinion. he has experience in regard. i think it's unfortunately ignoring a very important piece of supplementary information. which is that we use these same techniques against another al qaeda operative, olibbi and this individual told us that saddam hussein was involved with 9/11 and it led us to invade a country mistakenly and led us to spend millions and billions of dollars, and american lives were lost. if you look at the math, that's not very good. i think we have to ask is this reliable in a consistent way. and i'm not sure it is. this is setting aside you will the other considerations that we have. there are a lot of our neighbors and allies that are not very happy with us using these techniques to begin with. >> the fact that mr. rodriguez says that look, we've had at least ten incidents of people

in a "60 minutes" interview, jose rodriguez of puerto rico, tells lesley stahl about waterboarding the man who planned 9/11. khalid sheik mohammed was stabbed to a board, tilted, head down, a cloth placed over hissa face, and water poured over his mouth to give the sensation of drowning. but rodriguez steals staal that mohammed was tough. they had to pour the water more than 180 times. >> this is an individual who probably didn't give a rat's as, is about having water poured on his face. >> reporter: he never believed for one second you were going to kill him? >> no. let me just tell you, khalid sheik mohammed would use his fingers to count the number of seconds because he knew that in all likelihood, we would stop at 10. so this-- this doesn't sound like a person who is afraid of dying. >> reporter: if he's sitting there counting off, he knows you're not going to kill him, he knows he's not going to drown, then why do it? what's the point? >> i think the cumulative effect of waterboarding and sleep deprivation and everything else that was done eventually got to him. >> reporter: so wh

would disagree then you have jose rodriguez who this was the guy that was responsible for actually destroying cia interrogation tapes despite the fact that a federal judge ruled that they had to be turned over now he has a book that's coming out and he was just on sixty minutes this last weekend still supporting and totally saying torture is good and that's what we were supposed to do but he had this to say about obama's policy take a listen. we don't capture anybody anymore leslie i mean you know if they are the fault of these ministration has has been to kill prisoners take no prisoners the drones the drones how could it be more ethical to kill people rather than capture them i've never understood that one. so he says it's more ethical to capture rather than this to just kill people this is a line that we've also seen the former head of the former top lawyer at cia say we've seen david ignatius kind of sort of subtly points out and in some is columns which is that in fact all this debate over enhanced interrogation extraordinary rendition is completely overshadowed by the fact that now we'r

josÉ >> y un milagro, angie sandoval reportando en directo, muchas gracias >> detrÁs de todos estos devastadores tornados quedaron decenas de familias damnificados cada uno con su historia de dolor y supervivencia, jeanette rodrÍguezn lo dices con estas tareas de limpieza que ves a mis espaldas empiezan a sobre salir las historias de sÚper vivencias que van a presentar a continuaciÓn con su nieto de un aÑo y medio de edad logrÓ refugiarse y salio viva como muchas personas lograron hacer de estos terremotos que arrasaron con todo >> dice anoche viviÓ los momentos mÁs ten brosz de su vida >> fue cuando mirÉ en las nubes como un remolino >> yo alcancÉ a ver se miraban como pÁjaros dando vueltas >> pero era lo que ya estaba levantando >> el vecindario donde resido e graciela estÁ en uno de los trayectos de los tornados, no hizo caso a la primera alarma >> a la segunda reaccionÓ >> mi nieto estaba dormido, fui lo levantÉ. y me lo llevÉ al daÑo, baÑo, ene tardÉ ir al baÑo a esconderme no pasaron 5 minutos cuando llegÓ >> el refugiarse a tiempo mantiene con vida a cientos en esta comunidad, pero ni tal refugio cesaba el miedo >> pues que nos iba a llevar >> si no lo abrazo fuerte me lo va a quitar >> y pues como bien lo

let me turn to the other michael, as i watch that clip of jose rodriguez, i think he's an idiot.ike this guy he wasn't afraid of death. this didn't work on him at all. then why did he do it 183 times? was it not clear on the 181st time that it wasn't going to work? and then they have the audacity to say, the conservatives, because they have nothing left they say many many, many many, many months later, khalid sheikh mohammed told us something. and maybe that is because of the torture. >> they do this a lot. like the arab spring was caused by the iraq war. ten years later we capture bin laden, clearly that was the result. this gets back to this national psychosis that gripped the country after 9/11. we had a cover up with the cia where tapes disappeared and the other thing that rodriguez said he was in no danger of dying. we also know many detainees did die over the past few years when they, doing this. >> and one of the things they would do is slam them against the wall and they weren't likely to get a concussion or blood clot unless they did. look, this lead to a devolvement in

we learn what we areearning from jose rodriguez. >> reporter: in an interview with "60 minutes," theyent defense. >> we don't capture anybody anymore. the default option of the administration has been to kill prisoners. take no prisoners. >> the drones. how can it be more ethical to kill people? rather than capture them? i never understood that one. >> they say the u.s. government has gotten out of the interrogation business, now relying on the drone program. in yemen alone, number of strike tripled since 2002. the former director of the c.i.a. said in 2006, half of what the u.s. government knew about al-qaeda came from the interrogation pam. >> some fraction of it is aging off. >> the terrorism advisor says the drone program is legal and not overused. >> we are not seeking general sense. rather we conduct the targeted strikes because they are in addition to mitigate actual ongoing threat. to prevent future attacks and save american lives. >> the c.i.a. program "torture" they are also drone policy.he administration >> we are not in a stage to plore lawfulness of the program. but what

. >>> first last night on 60 minutes jose rodriguez did not hold back about the administration's current policies in fighting the war o terror. >> we don't capture any money any more. their default optn of this administration has been to kill prisoners, take no prisoners. >> the drones? >> the drones. how could it be more ethical to kill people rather than capture them? i have never understood that one. >> president obama has said what we did was torture. >> well, president obama is entitled to his opinion. when president obama condemns the covert action, activities of a previous government, he is breaking the covenant that exists between intelligence officers who are at the point and at the speer hanging way out there and the governments that authorize them and direct them to go there. >>odriez also spoke about 9-11 mastermind shall leak mohammed calling him an evil man. rodriguez says this is a man who was not phased it whatsoever. >> rodriguez went on to say all of this was done for the right reasons and he has no qualms his words, about the interrogation. some of them are used on u.s

last night on "60 minutes" jose rodriguez ran the c.i.a. enhanced -- sorry, clandestine unit in charge of getting the intel that eventually ledo bin laden killed. listen to the first sound bite. >> we made it uncomfortable for a few days but we did the right thing for the right reason. the right reason was to protect the homeland and protect american lives. >> eric: s bob, the intel that was gleaned from sheikh muhammad, was taken from the carrier. >> bob: all of that -- the point is all intelligence buildsn other intelligence and it takes a long time. from the time they first got the information to the time bin laden was killed was several years. it takes long time to put it together. >> eric: did you hear what you said? you just gave credit -- >> bob: i give credit to george bush and i give credit to intelligence and the c.i.a. they did a remarkable job. the difference is i'm willing to give credit. you're so partisan you won't give him a break for one thing he did right. eric: why won't obama, the campaign or white house give credit to b

there he is rit there, jose rodriguez. it was just a year ago that the navy seal team 6 went in there and rather than capture bin laden, they killed him and now, you know, they brought all the hard drives and everything else and it looks as though there was a coection between usama bin laden, the commander of the taliban and he hadn't been really seen since 2001 presumably he was in pakistan and also ayman al-zawahiri. the three of them were triangulating what al-qaida would do. they were in communication. >> the question is -- do you have peace talks in cutter with members of the taliban and pretend they don't have relationships with al-qaida when it's in bin den's own journals how close they were, how they were plotting together. they never loved each other but after the invasion, after they were forced from power, they realized they had to work together closer than ever. >> as the campaign moves forward and we have an election in november, one of the things that we thought we'd see a lot of in a president obama ad would

jose rodriguez says waterboa waterboarding, sleep deprivation and other techniques paid off. critics say it amounted to torture. rodriguez talks about the most notorious and maybe least cooperative detainee of all, 9/11 mastermind khalid shaikh mohammed. agents waterboarded him more than 180 times in a month. >> this is an individual who probably didn't give a rat's [ bleep ] about having water poured on his face. >> he never believed for one second you were going to kill him. >> let me just tell you, khalid shaikh mohammed would use his fingers to count the number of seconds because he knew that in all likelihood we would stop at ten. this doesn't sound like a person who is afraid of dying. >> if he's sitting there counting off, he knows you're not going to kill him. he knows he's not going to drown, then why do it? what's the point? >> the cumulative effect of waterboarding and sleep deprivation and everything else that was done got to him. >> what happens? does he break down? does he weep? does he fall apart? >> no. he gets a good night sleep. he was very heavy. when he ca

so jose rodriguez, again, the cia guy who designed the and khalid sheikh mohammed did break.e broke. >> right. >> bill: so did the other guys. i think there were three others beside him who they waterboarded, all of them broke and gave information that saved thousands of lives. yet, the left still says -- president obama himself, torture, we don't do this anymore as a nation. besmirched our reputation around the world which i don't think is true. what do you say? >> i say what has besmirched our reputation is the fact that we remain in afghanistan 11 years after we went in. the longest running conflict in our history. that besmirches our -- >> bill: why? doing that to protect the afghan people. >> because we haven't won a decisive victory. we are right now, this administration providing a free passage to chicago to convene discussions. that makes us look like. >> bill: taliban? >> yeah. we look like abject fools. waterboarding, what in the world is a former covert head doing talking about all of this? why do we have a cia that has to put up with a administration that gives de

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so jose rodriguez, again, the cia guy who designed the and khalid sheikh mohammed did break.broke. >> right. >> bill: so did the other guys. i think there were three others beside him who they waterboarded, all of them broke and gave information that saved thousands of lives. yet, the left still says -- president obama himself, torture, we don't do this anymore as a nation. besmirched our reputation around the world which i don't think is true. what do you say? >> i say what has besmirched our reputation is the fact that we remain in afghanistan 11 years after we went in. the longest running conflict in our history. that besmirches our -- >> bill: why? doing that to protect the afghan people. >> because we haven't won a decisive victory. we are right now, this administration providing a free passage to chicago to convene discussions. that makes us look like. >> bill: taliban? >> yeah. we look like abject fools. waterboarding, what in the world is a former covert head doing talking about all of this? why do we have a cia that has to put up with a administration that gives deta

. >> jose rodriguez is the former c.i.a.tined services and he says the interrogation methods used under president bush were legal, effective and no less humane than drone strikes approved by president obama. >> meanwhile, the colts officially have a new face of their franchise. indianapolis took stanford's andrew luck last night as first pick in the draft. luck who replacing peyton manning looking forward to playing. >> it's nice to officially be a colt and it's still sinking in. it makes me smile saying it so, you know, can't wait to get out there really and get in the locker room with the guys. >> replace peyton manning, what's the big deal? the baylor quarterback robert griffin iii going second in the draft. the redskins taking the heisman trophy winner. he's got a nice smile and the rest of the top five look like this. browns moving up one slot and gave up so much away of their draft to take trent richardson, third the running back. goes number four to the vikings and the jaguars also trading to take justin blackmon smit