entry ones says joseph derek was eric partnership and he is an internal external trust expert and thenthe second one is near the bottom of that first group. sanko a.g. and that person is also an external trust expert. now both of those gentlemen have been indicted for aiding and abetting u.s. tax evasion. is that correct that yours swiss bankers work with both of these outside intermediaries to help u.s. citizens set up offshore shell entities and to open accounts in your bank in switzerland in the name of those entities and set up in their own names? >> yes in some instances they did. >> and they were called intermediaries, right? i mean that is one of the names they were called. >> i'm not sure. fiduciaries. >> so anonymous with intermediaries, would you agree xp they sound very similar, yes. >> no the bank has acknowledge that it has also worked with other intermediaries. can you tell us who they were? besides these two. can you tell us what other intermediaries or what was the name you used? fiduciaries that the bank worked with to do what i just described, to help u.s. clients set