joseph hudson. yes, just because he was a stolid artist and the conversation went something like. hudson doesn't tug at the heartstrings. right. and you replied, well, neither do i. i just keep talking. and you say, feisty mouthy, unrepentant is how you describe both him and yourself, which i find highly accurate. i just. i just keep talking. you said. and writing and publishing books that their way haltingly, bringing me just enough of a following for a very nice career. no, no. a distinguished scholar career, etc., etc. and you speak in the book as well as in all in art school, about the frustrations of not recognized. and despite all this you persist to talk. so that idea of persistence, this is inherent in the title. yes. and i want you to just talk about that idea little bit more. why is it so important to just keep talking? i think it's important. just keep talking and especially for women to just keep talking because there's so much that says, don't. so we just keep talking. and i felt like i had something to say. and in fact, i have a very distinguished scholar career. i m

joseph hudson. yes, just because he was a stolid artist and the conversation went something like. hudson doesn't tug at the heartstrings. right. and you replied, well, neither do i. i just keep talking. and you say, feisty mouthy, unrepentant is how you describe both him and yourself, which i find highly accurate. i just. i just keep talking. you said. and writing and publishing books that their way haltingly, bringing me just enough of a following for a very nice career.