these are people who spent, including joseph ruth, spent their lives working on civil rights issues, and that they participate in this is really shocking. people have a difficult time hearing it. there were certainly jewish americans who stood up, just as there were other americans who stood up and opposed the policies. they were in the minority certainly on the west coast they were in the minority. but people don't expect to hear this story, and unfortunately it's a story of kind of getting in bed with the wrong people. so they got in bed, so to speak, with people like martin dyes and so on because he was able to further their campaign against antisemitism, but in doing so they ended up doing damage to another. i think that many people read history looking for good guys and bad guys, and here's a case where if you look at -- to go back to this organization in los angeles -- like i said these are people whoa dedicated their lives to civil rights and even they got caught up in this, in a sort of wartime hysteria and expedience si and so on. so it's not so simple as good guys and bad g