neither one of the standards are being met today. >> ifill: joseph violante, if there's the problem we being investigated now about these wait lists, do we know if it stops there? is it beyond? is it systemic? >> it's a good question. you have to go back to 2001 when president bush established a task force to look at the delivery of healthcare for veterans and they reported in may of 2003, the wars in their early infancy in 2003, and at that point in time, they found a wait list of 236,000 veterans waiting six months or more for healthcare, and they found a mismatch in demand in funding. so this has gone on for a long time. it is a problem. but, again, the problem of access is a funding issue that needs to be addressed. >> ifill: i just want to ask about the wait list question because the white house said the number actually has gone down. >> the number has gone down. the number has gone down to some extent with the processing of applications for benefits. but the internal problem that we have is that -- and i disagree with joe on this -- is they have gotten more money, number one. and