townsend joseph welch became quite well known. who was he? he was an attorney who was serving as counsel to the u.s. army during this investigation. and he became very well known because of his really steadfast resistance to the bullying and to the maneuvers that senator mccarthy was trying to engage in during during the investigation and particularly during those hearings, what became of senator mccarthy after he was first elected in 46, probably reelected in 52, did he get reelect? did in 58? no. he did not. but let me back up and say one thing about about welch, because it does bear on sort of what ultimately happened to senator mccarthy joseph welch. you know, in a hearing in 1954, kind of in the middle of these and was in june of 54, was engaging in a in a in a colloquy basically with senator mccarthy, who was trying to again, so doubt about the people in the u.s. army and about the position the army was taking by by suggesting that one of the attorneys, a young attorney, had had associations with communism. that attorney was taken off t

you know, previously about mccarthy and and the way that somebody like joseph welch became very famousor standing up to joe mccarthy in a public hearing. so it occurs. but not too often. in the summer of 1987, seven weeks of hearings, 500 witnesses, 1 million documents in a 690 page report. who are some of the significant others who testified? mr. townsend. well, you had a whole range of of operatives, people involved with this scandal, people like robert mcfarland, who had been the national security adviser, who was deeply involved in these orchestrated efforts to channel well, to go to the iranians to try to secure the release of hostages in exchange for the sale of these weapons systems. and then the money being channeled and used to support the contras. so mcfarland was a very, very important part of the of the the proceeding. fine. paul who was the assistant to oliver north who helped him destroy documents? she was, you know, a young woman who was ki of got lot of attention because she was she was attractive and the whole thing sort of played to the media's feeding frenzy on this

welch was the embarrassed joseph mccarthy in the 50s. and it really started mccarthy's descent and and he said to mccarthy at long last, sir, have you no decency? he wouldn't say it quite that way, but does he challenge vance on what they've inflicted on this town in ohio? well, one thing we've heard from early on particularly was the whole weird idea. let's play some of that dude. >> these guys are just weird. these guys are creepy and yes, just weird as hell. these ideas that they're putting out there they are weird as hell. it's an observation, and i didn't come up with it this is a tool. i'm a teacher and you're trying to get things in. this is the emperor's wearing no clothes obviously, the danger of him using it tonight is something that j.d. >> vance can obviously prepare for. >> well, right. and i think it's something that actually is super effective on the campaign stump. and it works at, you know, kind of a rally environment. it debates a very different format. i think you'd actually be much better off to litigate the substance