might have gone or inputs from foreign leaders, which may very well be part of the material that josh dorsey was reporting on from our lago. are the things that might be out there. and i guess, josh, my question to you would be with regards to things that we don't know, have you begun to issue for your requests for material that might corroborate or might find information? because again, i know that any presidency is a great number of people are communicating. so would those documents that donald trump be shredded be held in other parts of the government? and can you, can you explain to our audience what a 4 year request is of so for your requests of freedom of information request, we frequent frequently uses reporters, historians and others. use them as wow, i to try it and get public records from the government. it's more difficult with the executive branch because there's so many protections there where they don't have to destroy certain things in the white house, but a lot of government agencies, a lot of other official places, do not have that same protections. and one of the things tha

today we're talking with josh dorsey and investigative political reporter at the washington post who's done some of the really major reporting on this story. and joining me here in the studio are and weisman who has literally fought against every american president since the 1980s, to make sure that their records come back to the public. and is the former chief council for citizens, for responsibility and ethics in washington. responsibility, ethics, washington, we're going to talk about that. and professor david barker, who teaches government and is the director of the center for congressional and presidential buddies at american university. josh, let me just start with you. can you lay the groundwork if, as it were, for what we have learned about donald trump's proclivity to just keep keep ripping things up and what are the public equities that are involved here? so what we learned is that former president trump's habit for ripping up documents was indiscriminate and repeated am. over the course of 4 years, various chiefs of staff, lawyers, and other advisors in the white house tried

"washington post" josh dorsey spoke about that with our pamela brown. >> we had a couple sources tellhey saw ripped documents that he put in his shirt pocket or he never returned, which made them think they could be something sensitive. the totality of our sourcing indicated there was no, you know, specific reason that he would rip any sort of document. but he would rip all sorts of documents. he would put them in the waste bin in the oval office, the residence, air force one. people would assemble them back together. >> the former chief of staff for mike pence -- pence's comments about the ability to overturn the 2020 election merited a response. have a listen. >> unfortunately, the president had many bad advisers who were basically snake oil salesmen, giving him really random and novel ideas as to what the vice president could do. >> two u.s. senators from opposite sides of the aisle said they are coming together to support a bill to reform the electoral count act. the reason for the bipartisan accord, former president trump's attempt to get his vice president to throw out election