as always, joyce, greg, thank you both so much.t, republican voters might actually be growing tired of the party's attacks on books, women's autonomy and others civil liberties. no -- new polling on the war on woke, and later, tragedy among the u.s. southern border, mexican authorities say the body of two migrants were found in the rio grande, what texas is saying about their deaths. their deaths mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions... ...to not only enhance the fan experience, but to advance how the game is played. now's the time to see what america's largest 5g network can do for your business. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting

hallmark is that the joyce is, i'm a catchy, a female nita, who upholds traditional knowledge of seeds, soil, and nature, which she passes on to younger generations. it would be fun to dictate them as soon as you can. so i mean, i love planting trees. not only do trees produce oxygen, they also help us in so many of the ways they provide as medicine would for furniture and delicious fruits to eat. plenty cheese makes me feel good and ready to find me to someone. let me pull some of the country, walk closely with other communities to address issues such as food security, land stupid ation, biodiversity loss, and climate change. this l does seeks to foster a deeper understanding and appreciation of their natural and cultural heritage as the voice of nature. they also defend the land against which i shall twits, and of these wise elders are in big demand. today, the chief of to the fee, consult with the former because of the joyce regarding a proposed cold mind development near the village, the mind meets the approval to go ahead. but the 2 liters are skeptical. the money i want to allow

that joyce had in her life.nd we know this um -- hope we use this as a motivation to bring greater attention to the importance of arts and in our lives. and has her husband -- remarks the importance of affordable healing coverage for all people. in san francisco. our deepest condolences to the lives toucheded by joyce. we wish her fare well will and know that her spirit remains with us always as long as we continue to say her name. thank you. thank you for your comments. next speaker, please. good afternoon supervisors beverly from the san francisco [inaudible] language access a matter of life and death to so many survivors of domestic violence in san francisco and beyond. we want to applaud supervisor walton and his on whiches for updating and uplifting and advancing language access in san francisco. and we want to thank you all for your hard work and leadership this left year and look forward to working with you soon. thank you very much. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> can you hear me okay yoochl >> da

>> the statute says the case is dismissed. >> joyce vance, so the georgia speedy trial law is a force to be reckoned and now we're going to see donald trump saying i want my case served from that. fani willis, it last thing she said today was, great, let's do all 19 of them on october 23rd. >> right. so donald trump and other defendants who want to sever will have to come into court and they'll have to explain to the judge why they're prejudiced if they're forced to go to trial on this early date with kenneth chesebro. usually that involves defendants talking about the kinds of evidence that can be introduced against codefendants and how that can prejudice them. and you can see how with 19 defendants that can quickly become a very messy situation. but as gwen says, the law is very clear in georgia. once this demand is made, chesebro is entitled to his fast trial. that's very likely to take place on that time line unless he alters his request, and so it's very likely that we'll get the benefit of cameras in the courts in georgia and this early view of the evidence in this case. >> amy

tell me how it works, joyce. >> right. so the people that you want most as your cooperating witnesses are the people who bring you the most value in terms of what they can testify to. and may or may not be rudy giuliani in this situation. something interesting with these folks whose names we recognize is many of them are lawyers. they appreciate what st. might mean to spend two, three, five years in a florida prison. they're motivated to make sure that's not the outcome that awaits them at the end of this trial. i think it's not unerably to assume we'll see some of these people file their legal plosions, see if they can get pulled from the herd if they have a defense unique to them or some other ability to escape this sort of prosecution. and then if they realize they really are right in fani willis' sights they may reach the point they decide it's time to go ahead and negotiate a deal to offer up whatever they have. it is a calculated risk, by the way, to litigate before you do that because typically the first people to c

joyce, i wanna go back to you again.et's talk about the fact that trump continues to appeal a decision made by drug -- judge mcburney in terms of removing fani willis from that case, from that prosecution, as well as the release of that special grand jury report. turning about the outcome of that appeal, would that necessarily impact the prosecution of donald trump and others if the grand jury does return a true bill on tuesday against him and the other codefendants? >> first, off katie, i think that effort by trump's all but a dead letter. it's been rejected by georgia judges up to this point. there is no merit to the suggestion. this is just the typical trump bluster. everyone is against him. it's a witch hunt. it's not going anywhere. but even if it did, its impact would be very limited. he has really two arguments. one is that fani willis can't participate in the prosecution. and in the extraordinarily unlikely case that that request were to be granted, she would simply be replaced with another prosecutor. the other

that joyce had in her life. and we know this um -- hope we use this as a motivation to bring greater attention to the importance of arts and in our lives. and has her husband -- remarks the importance of affordable healing coverage for all people. in san francisco. our deepest condolences to the lives toucheded by joyce. we wish her fare well will and know that her spirit remains with us always as long as we continue to say her name. thank you. thank you for your comments. next speaker, please. good afternoon supervisors beverly from the san francisco [inaudible] language access a matter of life and death to so many survivors of domestic violence in san francisco and beyond. we want to applaud supervisor walton and his on whiches for updating and uplifting and advancing language access in san francisco. and we want to thank you all for your hard work and leadership this left year and look forward to working with you soon. thank you very much. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> can you hear me okay yoochl >>

joyce vance is sticking with me.president trump is like a child, you tell him not to do something like take government documents or pay off sex workers or threaten witnesses and he'll do it, even if a judge tells him not to. will he actually face any consequences? we'll discuss it when we get right back. this is jason johnson on "the reidout." ble with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your d

gwen keyes fleming, emilia copeland, joyce vance, harry litman. there would be t-shirts with donald trump's mugshot on them. and of course, donald trump is the first to be selling those t-shirts tonight for $34. he has sent out a solicitation to sell those t-shirts to the most gullible political contributors in the history of political contributions in america. donald trump said a few words about what he experienced in atlanta just a few minutes ago. and of course, he lied. >> we were going through tremendous crowds in atlanta. they were so friendly, so friendly. but this is a radical left district eternity as we have in new york and as we have in all the other places. >> just, note to the audience if you're wondering where our video is of the tremendous crowds, the video doesn't exist because the tremendous crowds don't exist. gwen keyes fleming, we are entering the space of -- where donald trump has to live under a multiple set of conditions under what he can and cannot say publicly, who he can and cannot talk to. in the georgia case, there is t

joyce, my friend, thanks for joining us. start with the federal election interference case for donald trump. so, donald trump's team is proposing and april 2026 trial date. i know it brought some chuckles and some laughs and a lot of the region when that was announced. but you know, joyce, there is a march 2024 manhattan d.a. trial that has already been scheduled. a. may 2024 trial that's been scheduled, and now, fani willis. we'll get to that in a minute. fani willis wants to go to trial as soon as january. so, joyce, how does this work, necessarily? because special counsel jack smith is on the election interference case and the classified documents case. those would maybe be stacked like, one next to each other. how does this actually get navigated? how realistic is it that trump is weighing in the april, 2026 trial? >> so, i think for starters the april 2026 suggestion was just out of bounds. it won't take that long to prepare for trial. even if all four of these cases try one after the other. our friend, katie barb mcqua

attorney and analyst joyce vance. welcome to both of you. david, i tried to go through a lot of what i saw and as i mentioned i was seated just behind jack smith. no surprise to you he did not turn around and try to take questions or wanter with any of the reporters behind me. >> didn't try to get your autograph, ari. >> nothing was exchanged neither words nor signatures, sir. but i mentioned that the defendant's counsel has every right to make those arguments but several of those, shall we call them respectfully the more sweeping or sort of broad arguments really fell flat with the judge and what does that tell you about where they're headed now that the trial for march is soon? >> yeah, there's lots of motions that can be made in pretrial litigation and, you know, it's funny, where he is accusing the government of making a show trial, a lot of the motions that you went through are really show motions. really selective prosecution is going to float like a dead balloon and executive immunity likewise given these charges, i think there's moti

joyce vance and christina greer are back with me.hoping to find here? what obligations does fani willis have to send it over. last i checked, there is nothing wrong with her talking to smith, who is investigating the same crime. the attempt to overturn an election. attempt to overturn an >> right, you're 100 percent correct about that. there is nothing wrong with federal and state prosecutors coordinating. it happens all the time every day in this country. jim jordan knows that. he knows that fani willis will not comply with his demands, because they are improper, just like the ones made to alvin bragg and manhattan or. so, our only possible takeaway here is that jordan is not engaging in some form of legitimate congressional oversight. this is just political posturing at its worst. he's hoping he can cast aspersions, he can convince people who are poorly informed that something inappropriate happened. it's really a desperate last gasp of trying to delegitimized body well as his prosecutions. >> christina, i want to turn now to this

today, the chief of she'd si fi consults with the former because of the joyce regarding a proposed cold mind developments near the village. the mine needs the approval to go ahead, but the 2 liters are skeptical. with much money. i won't allow mining here. mine workers will die. the gas as they read the like poison, the pollution mixed, the whole community sick. if the want has gone terminate to the trees, we plant will die to it's like sitting on top of a bump, $10.00, which is concerns a well funded in the neighboring providence of them from atlanta, coal mines have caused a must've, environmental degradation and health problems but the physical father, vendor people believe nature is a spiritual need into connected trees, rivers and mountains are living beings with their own personality. mining will disrupt the disconnection and endanger the traditional way of life. in order to protect it, a founding member of the pool, but the lady mccullough really promotes the conservation of indigenous crops next. think of minutes and kind of us that's combining the preservation of cultural herit

joyce, john eastman, he did show up today.nd after he was booked he said he still believes the election was stolen. >> and he even claimed he's being targeted for advocating for donald trump. what is your take on what is obviously a preview of his defense here? >> so this may be the only position eastman thinks that he can take, this reliance on the notion that the election was stolen and that there was voter fraud. otherwise, there is no justification for his conduct and he is clearly guilty. but even if he continues to stake out this defense, it's not a very good one. there's a lot of evidence that he knew this wasn't the case, including the now infamous statements from white house counsel's attorney eric herschmann or he told him to get the best lawyer that he could. he was going to need it. there were a lot of folks who explain to mr. eastman precisely what he was wrong. and in the law, there is a notion of willful blindness. that you can't simply ignore the facts, stick your fingers in the air, and continue to say like a

and joyce, i will ask you about this.a right to say what i want. mccarthy is on tv the whole time talking about how hillary clinton disputed her election and stacey abrams disputed her election, and al gore disputed his election, they will follow the rules, the determinations were made, and life went on, but not for donald trump, joyce. >> right, so, the line that you're looking for here is the line between speech and conduct. yes, trump can say what he wants to do. but when he begins to join conspiracies that are designed to defraud the united states, to interfere with certification of the january 6th vote, certifying the electoral college, and ultimately to interfere with our right to vote is individuals, that is the line. he can say whatever he wants to say but. when he puts it into motion, pressuring mike pence, for instance, to interfere with certification on january 6th, that's why we have not just the three conspiracy charges of this indictment, but also that one substantive count of interfering with certification

lee, i'm there a way out of the highly respected inventor culture hallmark is that the joyce is, i'm a catchy, a female, nita who upholds traditional knowledge of seats, soil and nature, which she passes on to younger generations. it would be fun, detected him as soon as you can. so i mean i love planting trees. not only do trees produce oxygen, they also help us. and so many of the ways they provide us medicine would for furniture and delicious fruits to eat. plenty cheese makes me feel good and ready to find me to someone. let me pull some of country, walk closely with other communities to address issues such as food security, lands, do, tradition, biodiversity loss, and climate change. this l does fix to foster a deeper understanding and appreciation of their natural and cultural heritage. as the voice of nature, they also defend the land against which i shall twits, and of these wise elders are in big demand. today, the chief of chintzy for a consult with the former because of the joyce regarding a proposed cold mind developments near the village. the mind meets the approval to g

today, whole more because i did joyce and a group of students a planting 20 in know, funding in purple province. the organization, someone the mobile or voice of nature has planted over a 100 trees in the village of tvs in the past few weeks. since 2000 new pool pool has low, 17 percent of its indigenous, forced to cover as trees were raised to make way for plantations and my a mobile. another organization exist to give a voice to nature which cannot speak for itself. we believe it is our responsibility to protect the environment and its inhabitants. as a child, i was taught to respect trees and not to cut them down in discriminatory trees. i like the eldest of living beings. when we destroy them, we lose a part of our heritage and our connection to the natural world. lee, i'm bet a way out as a highly respected invent. gotcha. whole more because i do, joyce is, i'm a catchy, a female nita who upholds traditional knowledge of seats. so in the end nature, which she passes on to younger generations, it'd be fun to dictate them as soon as you can. so i mean, i love planting trees, not onl

attorneys joyce vance and paul charleston.ul, let me go to you first because this is basically within a larger political context, but i believe what the attorney general said was that daniel weiss has said several times that this investigation is ongoing, that of course has been a big issue because it was part of the reason that the judge refused -- the judge in delaware refused to accept the plea deal, which is still not been consummated by both sides and not accepted by the judge. what does giving him a special counsel's infra ma tore mean? is it to give him for the appearance of independence but independence from the justice department because of all the criticism that as a district attorney he could be removed or would have to report to the attorney general? >> it gives him both, andrea. it gives the optics, it gives the view from the public that this is an individual who will be acting in an independent fashion. merrick garland has said that the decision as to who, when and where if any charges are going to be brought is

his book," american psychosis of the gop" coming out next month, and prosecutor joyce vance. this is huge to me, right? because what you had, a lot of these people working on the fake electors scheme, they could always kind of argue, hey, i was just talking, this was just -- i was just speculating, this is a bunch of friends and i throwing ideas up against the wall. we weren't connected to any of the violence. but when you have one of the people on the fake electors scheme actually at the capitol, that's a pretty strong link, that's the kind of thing that should put you in legal and possibly jail jeopardy, correct? >> it's utterly fascinating, because it's tough to say that you're a lawyer sitting in your office researching the law and providing people with legal advice when you're trailing alex jones around the capitol, videotaping comments that he's making. you know, jason, something that's interesting here is how much of this did doj know? presumably they're already in the loop on this and they know what to make of it. but it is absolutely a tantalizing piece of informatio

one is the volume of discovery, it's substantial, as joyce just said. in this case, it's similar in the federal case. that's something to think about. i think one of the other factors is the very crowded court calendar. donald trump has four pending indictments. so any date has to figure out within the calendar where these trials are going to fit in. none of them are going to be short. the election interference trial, i think, will probably take a couple of months to try. that is a factor. i think the other thing to keep in mind is the first trial date is rarely the last. that is because of the organic nature of litigation. she may set a trial date for spring of 2024, or something along those lines. but things happen. motions get filed, defendants get sick. defendants fire their lawyers. oftentimes, the first trial date is not the last one. because of the reality of litigation that causes a judge to find what is called excludable, and set a new trial date. just because we have a trial date in early 2024 on monday, doesn't mean that's the one that's real

joyce, please stay near a camera, please stay hydrated. we'll be coming back to you throughout the evening i suspect. i want to turn to our table of lawyers. david, finishing what we started with the evening. for viewers wondering why we're reading so much, this is where the case rises or falls. we have it now. this is whether or not a jury is convinced, all this material. and whether or not a jury is convinced will determine whether donald trump is convicted, and convicts in these kind of multiprong conspiracy cases spend time in prison, or not. reading from page 41, i mentioned the 6:00 p.m. call. you go out to 7:18 p.m., and it says coconspirator one calls phi u.s. senators and one congressperson. then a different person, coconspirator six, tries to get other number for senators whom the defendant, that's donald trump -- quote, the defendant directed coconspirator one to call in delaying the certification. there's voicemails they have here. at 7:01 p.m., while coconspirator calling on behalf of the defendant, the cocounsel was saying en

attorney, joyce vance.s to have been, i mean, listen, it's been 48 hours since the protective order was issued. more tightlipped than the former president normally is. is this something we're surprised about or do you think his legal team has gotten the message and they've communicated that to him? >> so, this judge, tanya chutkan, she means business. she was very clear about imposing the sanction, it was not a threat. she said, if trump kept it, up that would speed up the trial process. that, of course, that's his weakness, that's something he does villages not want to see happen. appears to have taken that warning at face value. you, know how long that's gonna last for, yasmin, that's anyone's guest on whether he'll be able to keep himself off of social media. >> i want to read for you from the protective order. i want some clarification on how they're gonna police all of this. i will allow the defendant to review the sensitive material without being accompanied, without having a member of the legal team

andrew weissman, joyce vance, no two better people to weigh in on this topic. thank you both for your time and expertise as always. >>> still more to come this evening. there is a new casualty in florida governor ron desantis' culture war, and that casualty's name is william shakespeare. i'll explain that coming up. >> breaking news out of ohio where democracy itself just won. that's next. t won. that's next. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 36 month financing on select smart beds. shop now only at sleep number. but blendjet■s back to school sale is in full swing! blendjet gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on the go so you can whip up a mouthwatering beverage wherever you are. enjoy 15 plus blends before rapidly recharging via usb-c. cleanup is a breeze! just blend water with a drop of soap. stand out even when you're accidentally twinning with our kaleidoscope of colors. don■t be tardy for th

joyce, i want to start with you. obviously, what's top of my mind right now is this motion for protective order. as we all know as former prosecutors, protective orders are not rare in cases at all, frankly. especially in cases like this. but joyce, when it comes to the actual immediate response that we got from the doj, you bet truth social post, the doj did it very clear in the motion that they have a concern about a quote, harmful, chilling effect on witnesses or an adverse effect on other administration of justice in this case. what's the likelihood of success for jack smith on this motion for protective order? >> so, the protective order, as you point out, katie, is routine. and it's very likely due to be granted. jack smith makes a compelling point in the motion that this is just for starters. that, it can be altered at the request of either party, at anytime. but once this motion is in place, discovery can move forward. everyone is interested, maybe except for donald trump, in the expeditious administration of

well, joyce didn't have to die to find out. in fact, she just celebrated her 90th birthday and finally has some closure. ernest leo de soto was buried at the golden gate national cemetery in full uniform in a casket from pearl harbor. joyce de soto told the san mateo daily journal her husband loved what he did and aspired to become a college professor. after his military career was over. the former san francisco giant great buster posey set to go back to school to finish his degree from florida state university. the three time world champion taking an online course work to complete his social science degree. posey was originally a finance major but switched to social social science so he could study remotely. the seven time all star recently relocated back to the bay area along with his wife and four children. the nebraska cornhuskers women's volleyball team making world history tonight. it puts it away for nebraska. more than 92,000 fans packed memorial stadium, the largest crowd to ever watch a women's sporting event. the sta

-based attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years that a federal prosecutor. cameron, i know you have interviewed fani willis, you know this, woman she has set a very aggressive timeline for this case. what should we take away from that? >> well, it is not surprising that she did so. she has been very clear that she has been a marshall ford on this case, despite all of the annoyance around, it she is moving forward, moving forward quickly. having said that, i think her timeline will be complicated by a question made today, and certainly going to object and be motions to delay. but, she's making it clear she is going to -- this is just days after the indictment shot, she is seeking -- to set a trial date. she is also, as you know, august 25th as the time when everybody has to show up to the courthouse, be booked, or they are going to be -- issued for the arrest. so moving forward. >> what can you tell us about the judge in georgia? >> well, i just actually wrote a story about it. a very young man, 34 years, old just got on the bench, just got on the bench earli

joyce vance is back with me. what is the significance here?s and his lawyers are claiming and insisting that he did not break laws or violate rules. he just didn't have to disclose it until now. does that sound credible to you? >> right, so, he argues two things. one, as you pointed out, joy, is inadvertent disclosures. for what ever used reason, i made a mistake, i'm human. repeatedly. and the second part of it is this notion that he wasn't required to report some of these quote unquote hospitality trips until the rules for recording change this year in the wake of all these disclosures. technically he might have a point. practically the issue is, who is prepared to do anything about this? did these justices, i would include judges alito as well, who did not disclose everything that one might think any other government employee would have disclosed, is anyone willing to take this up? will there be any formal sanction? will the court acknowledge that there have been passed scenes and we commit to doing better in the future? might doj investiga

joyce and paul are msnbc legal analysts. you were inside that room, take us there. >> there are probably two things that stood out to me the most. i've been in the courtroom for all of donald trump's arraignments. he's getting more comfortable for what was in new york a tense and uncomfortable arraignment. yesterday, he looked like this was old hat for him. what is so outside the norm becoming somewhat mundane for the former president. you see a degree to which he's been able to build his court appearances into his campaign overall. they have a well oiled machine now. the other dynamic that i've been fascinated by the last two hearings has been the presence of jack smith in the courtroom with donald trump. and this room, only about 15 feet apart at an angle where they couldn't help but see each other. as best i could tell, donald trump looked at smith once and for the ref of the time he was in the courtroom, he did everything he could to avoid meeting his gaze again. smith on the other hand, stared at donald trump every time

joyce vance, chairman, and kyle, thank you so much.hen we come, back new reporting, we will stay on elon musk. his company, formerly, twitter now backs, consciously slowing down traffic to websites that mr. musk does not like. -- is here on that, and the company's slow walking that one from jack smith. we will go even deeper. the first republican debate is just one week away, the front-runner, he may have other plans that day. -- we break down what the gop is up against. the 11th hour just getting underway on a series wednesday. sday ♪ (tense music) ♪ one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chas

joyce? >> that's right, yasmin. the line that smith sets up in this indictment is there is a certain amount of conduct that is awful conduct, but we have to tolerate it. because we are a democracy. and the allegation is that trump ultimately crosses over the line between awful and unlawful and once he's done just talking, just pushing the lie, even taking legitimate actions like challenging results in court, and he moves on to doing things like entering into conspiracies designed to subvert the justice department, to push the fraud line even further, that he's in criminal territory. so that's the construct that smith has set up for this prosecution. >> barbara, i want to dig into count four. both you and joyce are interested in count four this conspiracy to interfere with voting rights. why is this specific language this specific count so stunning to you as laid out in this indictment? >> well, i think this count is so important, yasmin, because i think when we think about count one, conspiracy to defraud the united

attorney joyce vance. jen psaki. take us through what we will see this afternoon. >> reporter: this is both a surrender and an arraignment. we expect mr. trump will enter the courthouse through a tunnel. he will be processed, we are told, because he has to be booked for each one of these. he will be fingerprinted through a digital machine. his mugshot won't be taken. they will use an existing photo. he may be asked some questions, including his age. then at some point he will make his way to the magistrate judge's courtroom. she's not the judge presiding over the case. she will hear the arraignment, a presentment of the charges. mr. trump or his lawyers will have a chance to enter a plea. in miami, his lawyer did it for him. it's not clear we will hear mr. trump speak. then he will leave. he may have an opportunity, perhaps at the airport, to speak to reporters. that's unclear. one thing worth noting is the incredible lack of transparency around what is arguably the most important criminal proceeding in u.s. history.

attorney barbara mcquade and joyce vance. i want to start with what we began with, and that is this protective order. barbara, i'll begin with you. i mentioned that it could get hairy, the discovery process. ken was saying this is a routine, normally a routine issuance, it's not a big deal to get a protective order. why could it get hairy in this situation? >> well, as we can see, donald trump is going to fight everything tooth and nail. it is routine because what they want to turn over are all of the witness statements, so in order to be disclosed into the world, you could imagine that people who have testified against donald trump could find themselves being harassed or threatened by members of the public. donald trump is going to push hard on everything. and even if he doesn't get his way, the eventual delay in his trial, seems to be his game, fight everything, delay everything, concede no ground. >> i lost you for a couple of moments in that answer there. the connection went bad, so i'll ask joyce you the same question. i

attorney joyce vance, she spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. and frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence. i really just want to start by going around the horn and get everyone's reaction to what was in this indictment. peter, what stood out to you? >> well, look, i think this indictment more than the other two gets to the heart of the matter. the last two were important subjects, hush money, classified documents, national secrets, of course. this is the first indictment that goes to the heart of the american democracy. it charges the former president of the united states for actions he took while in office and in order to subvert an election he had lost. according to prosecutors it was fueled by lies and animated by the basis of instinct and a thirst for power. jack smith went straight at the defense -- president trump has defended he's used that he had supposedly a good faith desire to find out the truth about the election and he was legitimately pursuing his claims. jack smith said, no, that's not true. he was