attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor and philip mudd for both cia counter terrorist center and the fbi's national security branch. he also happens to be the author of the new book that we'll be talking about later in this hour. it is called "black site: the cia in the post-9/11 world." good evening and welcome to all of you. mr. rucker, i'd like to start with you. you don't really believe that was kind of a toss off answer by the president to a subject that defines who we are and what we've become now, so much so that on the legal realm on just social media last night in the public domain the bots went to work with messaging trying to foment racial division just in the hours after the democratic debate. >> yeah, brian, this is not some sort of partisan point of view. this is fact according to our intelligence agencies, according to all of our intelligence agencies. it's not just special counsel -- former special counsel robert mueller who testified to it, but the president's own hand-picked intelligence chiefs, including dan coats, the former -- or soon to

joining me now an msnbc political analyst and joyce vance is back with us. has extensive experience prosecuting possession of illegal firearms and destructive devices cases. this complaint as i read it is detailed and remarkably disturbing. not just in what he -- he's allege today have planned but in his degree of comfort in talking about it freely to the fbi, and as we saw in news reports. >> well, i think we've reached a point in this particular moment in history where it's all out in the open and there's no shame attached with having these kinds of feelings, expressing them out loud, going onto these forums, sort of finding your tribe so to speak and going back and forth with ideas and slurs. i think what's most disturbing not just that he's a security guard by day, that's alarming. there needs to probably be a better vetting process for that employer. but that he had bomb making materials. which is separate and apart from the conversation we've been having all week about access to assault style rifles. when you're talking about the fbi being able to find

joining me now is former federal prosecutor joyce vance and former u.s.assador to russia michael mcfaul. is no bedbugs, joyce, the best pitch for a world summit, you think? >> this is such a theater of the absurd, it's so hard to imagine that we're at a point where the president is using his official role as the leader of our country to hawk his failing resort and force foreign leaders to pay for it but, you know, joking aside, this violates the emoluments clause, it's not a close call, it shouldn't be toll separated. the fact that we're here, i think, tells us how over time we've accepted these small degradations of norms from trump to the point where something so outrageous can be taking place. >> yeah, and joke ago side, you do raise up a really interesting point about the emoluments clause but does this doral controversy really reveal he was never serious about separating his business from the office of the presidency? >> he has shown absolutely no inclination to create separation. it's unprecedented for a president not to put his asset producing inco

for now, to philip mud, philip rut gr, joyce vance, our thanks for starting off our conversation tonight. >>> coming up, pressure on mitch mcconnell building as the democrats see a new opportunity to push him out of the halls of congress or dream about it. they've certainly given him a new nickname. >>> another missile launch from north korea to which the president says in response, no problem. as we call it around here a thursday night, the 11th hour just getting underway. going to go down. you're my sidekick. ain't nobody's sidekick. hey boys. the fate of the world is in your hands and you can't even get along. pretty disappointed right now. you want a sidekick? i'm gonna find you one. see that guy over there? he's too big. look at you two. bickering like a couple of old ladies. woo! nightth, e 11th hour just getting underway. >>> moscow mitch, that being mitch mcconnell. moscow mitch blocks two bills. moscow mitch keeps killing any bill that will protect american democracy. moscow mitch is aiding and abetting vladimir putin's ongoing attempts to subvert american democracy. moscow mitc

for now, to philip mud, philip rut gr, joyce vance, our thanks for starting off our conversation tonight. >>> coming up, pressure on mitch mcconnell building as the democrats see a new opportunity to push him out of the halls of congress or dream about it. they've certainly given him a new nickname. >>> another missile launch from north korea to which the president says in response, no problem. as we call it around here a thursday night, the 11th hour just getting underway. nightth just getting underway. i switched to miralax for my constipation. stimulant laxatives forcefully stimulate the nerves in your colon. miralax works with the water in your body to unblock your system naturally. and it doesn't cause bloating, cramping, gas, or sudden urgency. miralax. look for the pink cap. (door bell rings) it's ohey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked

to joyce vance, to katie benner of "the new york times." thank you both for coming on and being part of our discussion. >>> coming up for us, the time may have arrived for what they call the thinning of the herd on those nature specials. among the two dozen democrats running for president. but one candidate sounds like he's not going anywhere. that story when we come back. you got in taxation? (danny) of course you don't because you didn't! your job isn't understanding tax code... it's understanding why that... will get him a body like that... move! ...that. your job isn't doing hard work... here. ...it's making her do hard work... ...and getting paid for it. (vo) snap and sort your expenses to save over $4,600 at tax time. (danny) jody... ...it's time to get yours! (vo) quickbooks. backing you. we're on the move. hey rick, all good? oh yeah, we're good. we're good. terminix. defenders of home. >>> anybody here know how much amazon paid in taxes last year? >> zero. >> i talk about that all of the time, and then i wonder why the washington p

joyce vance still with us, former u.s. attorney, also has prosecuted many an atf case, and understands these unfortunate situations right now. before we got the update from the hospital, one of the items in the questions that we were discussing -- you saw me intimate this question, joyce -- was this driver that was pulled over. a known quantity or an unknown quantity. what was a car being pulled over by a trooper turning into 21 injured and five dead, joyce. >> that's one of the details we'll be looking to hear more about in the next few hours, richard. we don't know if there was something that happened beforehand. was there an incident? maybe family domestic violence or an altercation that led the officer to pull the shooter over and began this tragic chain of events. it has happened in the past that law enforcement makes what looks like a routine stop, and everything goes bottom up. in west memphis, arkansas, in 2010 during a routine police pullover, two officers were killed by a shooter they had no idea that that would

joining us joyce vance in the flesh. joyce, take us through the argument you made in your piece and have you heard anything from the justice department in response? >> you know, i have not heard anything, nicolle and i don't think this attorney general will recuse. but one of your most important jobs if you're the attorney general of the united states is protect the integrity of the justice department. if republicans don't believe justice is being done by the department, then the entire system starts to ee rote. prosecutors depend on juries, juries and judges have to be able to trust prosecutors. when you have such a high-profile investigation, being led by someone who is arguably not objective about the matter, it really taints people's view of doj and barr should step away out of a sense of respect and love for the institution that he leads. >> so eli, i'm not going to play it again, but here's what barr said on monday. he said, i was appalled and indeed the whole department was and frankly angry in learning the meant

to joyce vance, to katie benner of "the new york times."you both for coming on and being part of our discussion. >>> coming up for us, the time may have arrived for what they call the thinning of the herd on those nature specials. among the two dozen democrats running for president. but one candidate sounds like he's not going anywhere. that story when we come back. >>> anybody here know how much amazon paid in taxes last year? >> zero. >> i talk about that all of the time, and then i wonder why the washington post, which is owned by jeff bezos, who owns amazon, doesn't write particularly good articles about it. i don't know why. but i guess maybe there's a connection. maybe we help raise the minimum wage at amazon to 15 bucks an hour as well, all right. [ applause ] maybe that's why washington post is not endeared with me, i don't know. >> so that was vermont senator bernie sanders on monday. it quickly caught the attention of the washington post. the executive editor marty barron issued a statement that read, in part, contrary to the cons

joyce vance is also an msnbc legal analyst. she joins us now. joyce, what's the basis on which you are calling for william barr to recuse himself? >> so i should be clear, ali that i don't make the argument because i believe that barr is actually going to recuse. i think the sad reality here is that he won't, but the reason he should recuse is because he has both conflicts of interest, conflicts that he has apparently decided don't warrant recusal, but also those conflicts give rise to an appearance of impropriety. that means that people in the public can't have confidence that he's a neutral decision-maker. and when you have someone like that in a position of control over an important investigation like the one into epstein's death and the ongoing criminal cases, it causes the public to lose confidence in the justice department. doj's already stretched too thin. we can't afford to have any more loss in its remgs and integrity. >> what's the conflict that you see that he's got? >> you know, he has a number of conflicts starting with the fact tha

to joyce vance, to katie benner of "the new york times."r coming on and being part of our discussion. >>> coming up for us, the time may have arrived for what they call the thinning of the herd on those nature specials. among the two dozen democrats running for president. but one candidate sounds like he's not going anywhere. that story when we come back. bak you don't really talk about your insurance unless you're complaining about it. you go on about how... ...it's so confusing it hurts my brain. ya i hear ya... or say you can't believe... ...how much of a hassle it is! and tell anyone who'll listen... (garbled)....it's so expensive! she said it's so expensive. tell me about it. yes.. well i'm telling the people at home. that's why esurance is making the whole experience surprisingly painless. so, you never have to talk about it, unless you're their spokesperson. esurance. it's surprisingly painless. what sore muscles? what with advpounding head? .. advil is... relief that's fast. strength that lasts. you'll ask... what pain? with advil.

new york studios, bill bratton and former chief of police in los angeles and former u.s. attorney joyce vancewho spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor and counselor, i'll start with you. what about the point andy mccabe made first of all, you're satisfied that what we've just witnessed fits the legal definition of domestic terrorism? >> you know, at least what we've seen in texas perhaps both incidents and i agree with andy, prosecutors will generally tell you that we need some sort of domestic terrorism statute. we should think very carefully about the behavior we want to criminalize and what we want law enforcement to be able to investigate it can't be slap dash so it has to be done thoughtfully and put it on an equal footing with foreign terrorism with the priority and prosecutors time so people understand it's a serious problem and needs to be addressed seriously. >> bill bratton, how on earth is law enforcement supposed to know about a kid that got mad and decided to get revenge? who is going to be -- we don't know it yet but he's going to be the next name we know? >> several ways, actu

joyce vance, probably my favorite msnbc person. you're here not just as joyce vance, not just as a u.s. attorney, you're here as a person beyond. you're going to get out of that mueller box. thank you for coming up from alabama. >> thanks. >> and then there is my gb friend, jonathan lemire. thank you for stepping in. >> i thought it was mike barnicle. >> he is too big for this show. we've got a lot to go. to let's go right to the wall. trump's casino economy. this week's ominous storm warnings from the bond markets, china and germany, show a looming recession, maybe even worse. are trump's erratic trade grenades equivalent to what he did to his casinos in the '90s? >> come to the castle in atlantic city. it's more than a hotel, it's a four-star resort. how about this. it's got action, it's got night life, the whole deal. it's too much. it's too much, isn't it? i like that. you're going to love it. >> and that was just one of the six bankruptcies. so, jonathan lemire, is the $39 hotel room in vegas a precursor to the $4 trillion in

. >>> for more on the president's lawless behavior, ian bascom, and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama. she is now an msnbc legal analyst. first, joyce, sort of a high level reaction to the push by the president to sort of by any means necessary build the wall, and explicitly ordering his subordinates to either ignore or actually violate the law. >> so it's hard to have any reaction to this except for absolute outrage. this is the nation's top executive. the man who takes an oath to uphold the laws, promises he'll uphold the constitution, which includes a clause that specifically orders him to fulfill his duty to the law. and apparently the law is no more important to him than anything else is. he is willing to order people to violate the law, not to achieve some good gain. not toe achieve some positive goal, but to fulfill a campaign promise that he's made in hopes that he can be reelected in 2020. it's really abominable. >> ian, how do you see this legally in terms of recourse? >> well, i would have some advice for federal officials and wo

. >> joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor who oversaw the development of a comprehensive initiative to tackle opioid and heroin addiction during her tenure as u.s. attorney. joyce, is this the template for the future to go after these industry giants and hold them responsible for the way they market these products? >> you know, as a global issue, it will be important for the corporations that made these drugs available to fund the plans that will be necessary going forward to end this crisis of opioid addiction. as far as this particular suit goes, oklahoma took a relatively narrow path based on a state law that made it possible to pursue a theory called nuisance. essentially saying the company created a public nuisance with the drugs they made available and that they promoted and now they have to pay to abate that problem. we may not see that same legal theory used, but the evidence that was accumulated by the oklahoma case will be helpful to others as they move forward. >> market experts have p

joining me now is joyce vance former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor. tic and drastic because it affects the people least able to get other healthcare services. those who are served by planned parenthood. >> that is exactly what it does. it cuts off not just abortion services but cuts off the sort of typical reproductive care and birth control services from the most low income people in our communities, forcing planned parenthood and other providers who want to be able to continue to mention, even make mention of abortion services, to replace about $60 million worth of federal funding from private donations. >> joyce, they have the option of appealing in court. what do you think about their decision to halt their services and stop using the federal money completely to avoid even temporarily while it goes through the courts obeying this gag order? >> it is a difficult position to be in. the ninth circuit court of appeals, which is the nine western most states, has traditionally been a very liberal circuit so it was a surprise to many observers when they d

joyce vance, i wanted to show you the video and get your thoughts. what are you watching? >> well, there's always a lot of chaos early on, richard. it's important for us to remember that these reports come in and the early reports may be incorrect, but while the shooting is still going on, the most important aspect of this is public safety. people need to listen to law enforcement. they need to stay in their homes. they need to stay out of harm's way and they need to make it possible for law enforcement to in this case get to multiple situations as quickly as possible to control the scene. as frank pointed out, this is a little bit unusual of a shooting because there are reports of a postal -- we don't know if it was a postal officer that was hijacked or postal vehicle but there are those reports. that might actually mean down the road we'll be looking at some kind of a federal prosecution, but no one's thinking about that right now. right now am we are working to get the count of a number of shooters. working to make sure that those shooters can safely be put into custody

for more i'm joined by joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, joy ainsley, glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor and eugene robinson, of course columnist for "the washington post." julia, is there anything in this thing? because i get the sense. i was a speech writer to a president. we were told don't even take copies of the speech you wrote home with you. okay. we generally honored that. is this kind of thing? is it that level of seriousness that he took memos from his own conversation home? >> that's part of it. the inspector general horowitz definitely slaps comey on the wrist for taking things home that he shouldn't have. but he also says he sets a bat precedent for fbi employees who now think they can leak information in order to set in progress some kind of official action. but for people who iowa been talking to, justice department employees and former justice department employees today, they say horowitz completely misses the context here. and it's like if he were to charge him and he referred it to the justice department

. >>> joining us to take a closer look it joyce vance, former district attorney for the university ofmsnbc contributor and my friend, every time i see ler in the makeup room, i love it. have not seen you in some time, joycy. you have to come back to new york. i digress. what do you make the arizona case? >> i think it's a very interesting legal strategy. the attorney general is quick to point out that although this jurisdiction does exist, it's not something that this supreme court has frequently used. they recently denied a case brought on the same sort of theory in 2016 but the real interesting legal point here is the supreme court now has a different composition. we have two justices. we don't know how they will view this theory. so it may be arizona will be successful in finding some way to ensure that there's still sufficient corporate funding to pay for any judgment that state and localities might ultimately get from the courts in the opioid crisis. >> it's interesting because you heard mark say he wants this to be a speedy process but in 1998 the supreme court took up a case in

from "the washington post," phil rucker is back, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney. here at the table rev al sharpton, host of "politicsnation" here on msnbc, and also the president of the national action network. maria teresa kumar is here, president and ceo of vote latino and bloomberg opinion executive editor fresh off a twitter brawl with the president himself, tim o'brien is back. lucky for us, msnbc contributors. phil rucker, let me start with you. i think we're all accustom to the president saying things that have no attachment to the truth or reality. when he says we're going to do something on gun control, whether you love donald trump or hate donald trump, the vast majority of americans hope that's true. >> yet, nicolle, the polling is completely lopsided on this issue. 80%, 90% of americans think background checks is the way to go. they have thought that for years and yet nothing happened in washington. the president said today he wanted intelligent background checks, that's his word, intelligent. but it's not clear what that means. the devil will be in th

joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law. my friend bill coen special correspondent for "vanity fair" and tom winter covering this for nbc news investigations team. tom, what can you tell us specifically about this search? what are they looking for? >> so, steph, this is a task force from the u.s. attorney's office for the southern district of new york focusing on jeffrey epstein's crimes and this broady conspiracy we've been talking about now for at least several weeks. as far as the search they're going to try to find anything that can help, any sort of ongoing prosecution. we saw from some of the video that you just showed that at least three or four computers, large screen, apple monitors, all bubble wrapped. those will be taken back. the computer analysis team for the fbi will take a look at that and image those drives so essentially make, not just a copy, kind of a carbon copy of it in that they'll actually contain all of the files, all of the logs, they'll know who accessed that computer. you're looking at it, that is

attorney joyce vance. joyce, i want to ask you how this is legal, but i suspect i know the answer. it doesn't matter to trump administration if it is or isn't and they will just change the laws. but how is it happening is my question? >> i think your point is well taken. we will see legal challenges as to whether or not the administration can do this in court but the real issue, like you know, is the government only has bandwidth to do just so much. immigration is a big problem. there are a lot of people in this country who are not documented. so the question is, who should government focus its resources on? in the obama administration the priority i was given as a u.s. attorney was focus on the people who committed violent crimes and who were here without documentation. that seemed like a really sensible priority and good place to focus my resources resource. i don't understand under what possible universe deporting people who are medically fragile is a good use of the limited resources that we have in this country. it's inhumane, it's inconference criminal. and the story rachel d

stephanie gosk on the case, and joyce vance, thank you so much. to see you again. >>> coming up, hidden. an exclusive look at the remote private detention centers where thousands of migrants are being held with little access to their lawyers or families. morgan radford's exclusive reporting coming up next. stay with us. exclusive reporting coming up next stay with us let's see, aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol extra strength. and last longer with fewer pills. so why am i still thinking about this? i'll take aleve. aleve. proven better on pain. who got an awful skin condition. with uncontrolled moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis, you feel like you're itching all the time. and you never know how your skin will look. because deep within your skin an overly sensitive immune system could be the cause. so help heal your skin from within, with dupixent. dupixent is not a steroid, and it continuously treats your eczema even when you can't see it. at 16 weeks, nearly four times more patients taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear

and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor.e cover of the new york daily news. when we hearded alert yesterday. there was just a jolt that went through twitter and many many people, do you think this represents how some people are feeling in the wake of this latest news, ellie? >> people should be -- >> this is extremely serious. she's not in good health, she's a fighter, she's going to hang on for as long as she can. we have suffered the random wheel of death before, thurgood marshall retired in 1991 because he was in failing health. he didn't actually die until 1993, two weeks after bill clinton was sworn in as president. if marshall had stayed right to the bitter end, even though he was a very sick man, clarence thomas would not be a part of our lives today. the way the supreme court works, these people have their jobs for life. nobody can force ruth bader ginsberg out of her job, no matter how sick she gets. if she passes away, trump before trump is kicked out of office. then he is going to have another supreme court appoin

joyce vance used to be a u.s.labama and she's written an amazing piece about how a few years ago she had to decide whether or not to authorize a raid like the ones we saw last week in mississippi. she's going to join us to explain why she did not give that raid the go ahead. >>> and now that jeffrey epstein is dead, the big question is what happens next to the victims, accusers and associates as well? min a man who pored over jeffrey's little black book. >>> and lastly, the red flag law legislations that would allow you to step in if you think someone shouldn't have access to guns to keep them away temporarily, the governor of wisconsin wants a law like that on his state. he will join us in a few minutes. >> david, was the tie of the day? >> sloths. >> sloths. how about that? zoom in? >> keen eye. well done. thank you. >> thank you, david. >>> the focus of the mississippi raids now shifting to the owners of the plants. how investigators found out they were hiring illegal immigrants in serious federal charges some

joyce vance former u.s. ey and professor at the university of alabama law school and congresswoman sherrill back with me. joyce, i want to start first with the report that the trump administration is trying to block immigrant children from attending public school. i know you dealt with something like this in alabama. what happened? >> this is clearly un-constitutional and stems from a supreme court case back in the 1980s. in the alabama case, alabama's efforts by state law to force kids to reveal their parents' immigration status so they could register for school, a measure clearly an effort to force people who were here without legal immigration status to reveal themselves, was ultimately held un-constitutional by the 11th circuit court of appeals and the supreme court declined to reverse that ruling. this is a really common sense reasoning when you think about it. it says, first, if these kids can't get an education, they'll never be able to make a contribution. that we shouldn't penalize them at that young

. >> but an op-ed from another msnbc legal analyst joyce vance said barr needs to recuse himself from case due to several conflicts of interest. what are those conflicts and do you agree? >> you know, the problem with recusal is that if you always err on the side of caution, recusal can be a good option. joyce makes a very good point there. the argument the government will say in surely refusing to recuse himself is going to be that he can be independent, he can look at the facts without being biassed even though he arguably has a relationship with someone who has a relationship with epstein. that still doesn't matter. at least that's going to be his argument. i tend to agree with joyce that this is a case where he has some personal involvement and probably recusal is the safest bet. it isn't about actual impropriety, it's about the appearance of impropriety, that should be avoided as well. >> we'll see what happens on that. de danny cevallos, we'll see what happens. >>> a rocky week on wall street, shaking confidence for investors, the signs, and how it could impact the 2020 race. >>

. >> joyce vance, former u.s. district of alabama, i knew you were the right person to ask about this. we'll be right back. stay with us. about this we'll be right back. stay with us look limu. a civilian buying a new car. let's go. limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ doprevagen is the number oneild mempharmacist-recommendeding? memory support brand. you can find it in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. frstill, we never stoppedss wmaking it stronger.e. faster. smarter. because to be the best, is to never ever stop making it better. there's never been a better time to become part of the mercedes-benz family. lease the c 300 sedan for just $399 a month with credit toward your first month's payment at the mercedes-benz summer event. hurry in now. >>> yesterday marked one wee

. >> joyce vance and phil rucker, we're always happy to have you. >>> when we come back, after a torrentcriticism over his rhetoric on race, more of that strategy phil rucker just reported. they think it'll help him win in 2020. we'll see. >>> also ahead, purging the professionals, tenders her resignation as the president pursues loyalists to lead the nation's top national security agencies, and it's either the best news of the day or the worst. the president's going on his summer vacation today where aides say he will focus on, wait for it, golf, twitter, and cable. now what could go wrong? all those stories coming up. ♪ you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. but we're also a cancer fighting, hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. dprevagen is the number onemild memopharm

a look at domestic terror here in america and joyce vance, who has national security experience., as a u.s. attorney. thanks for both of you being here. darrell, how do you view it? >> yeah, i mean this topic of domestic terrorism is basically a political mine field. you're talking about very divisive topics in america, things like gun rights, abortion rights, immigration and other things. and you know, the concern that i have is the backlash that i was subjected to back in 2009 has a chilling effect on both the law enforcement and intelligence communities. so you have a reluctance on the part of federal agencies to pursue these issues because they saw what happened to me and my unit and how it got shut down and people were fired. >> let's dig into that for a moment because part of the thing about especially immediately after 9/11 was if you could link anything to 9/11, it fortified it in washington whether it was a government reorganize or funding or taking more extreme measures. and there are legitimate civil liberties balancing as i mentioned. tell us what you meant about the

attorney joyce vance is back and rev al sharpton, host of "politicsnation" here on msnbc and president of the political action network. ruck ge rucker, let me start with you. what about last night? >> nicolle, it was a rambling speech that went on for more than an hour and he veered across so many topics. but i found most interesting what he had to say about the economy which was basically you have to vote for me because the economy is strong right now. privately our reporting has been he's quite alarmed and rattled about some of these negative indicators that we've seen this week and over the past couple of weeks as well as what's happening abroad with some of these foreign countries, foreeconomies. and trump is calling out to ceos, to friends, to some of his real estate buddies trying to take their temperature and also voicing skepticism about some of the data that he's seeing, saying some of these statistics are not to be believed because they're cooked up by economists who have an anti-trump bias. we will see how this plays out but it's not a particularly good sign from some of his

when joyce vance was a u.s.ttorney in alabama, she was asked to approve the raids like the ones we saw in mississippi. she decided not to do that. and she is here to explain why. walk us through what you weighed and why you decided against going ahead with that raid. >> federal prosecutors have broad jurisdiction. a lot of responsibility. you have to be involved in cases that involves all sorts of crimes. a whole range of cases. and you have limited resources. you have to find a way to exercise your discretion wisely and focus your resources on the crimes that are the most dangerous. and the defendants that are the most culpable. you think about the raids and think about who you should be prosecuting. that's the employers. i don't think there's anyone that would disagree with the notion that we should be making cases on the employers who violate the law and bring people in from out of the country in many cases. that's not what i was presented with. i was in a situation where they rounded up people with few prose

jill wine-banks, glenn kirschner, joyce vance, thank you for being here this morning. >>> we're goingss. to miss ♪ work so hard ♪ give it everything you got ♪ strength of a lioness ♪ tough as a knot ♪ rocking the stage ♪ and we never gonna stop ♪ all strength, no sweat. ♪ just in case you forgot ♪ all strength. ♪ no sweat secret. all strength. no sweat. >>> if by any chance you're up in the morning on wednesday through friday, you can watch "first look." >>> president trump picks up a surprising endorsement. k. >>> president trump picks up a surprising endorsement limu's right. liberty mutual can save you money by customizing your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh... yeah, i've been a customer for years. huh... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c. man 1: mine... man 1: ...caused liver damage. vo: epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. vo: whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure. woman 2: i had the common type. man 2: mine was rare. vo: epclusa has a 98% ove

. >> joyce vance, let me bring you in as well. it is mind boggling that somebody accused of this level of crime and criminality against children for so long who got an easy deal before, and is now in jail, is not watched -- is allowed to be on their own to the point where we're now saying that they allegedly committed suicide. i think a lot of people are going to want to have questions answered as to how this could have possibly happened because this is a robbery to the people who are victims of this man. i agree with lisa bloom, at least he's not going to be able to hurt people anymore, but there's no justice going to be served to him now. i think a lot of people want answers as to how this could have happened and whether or not it's clear that that's what happened, that it was a suicide, joyce. >> you're exactly right, a lot of people will have questions and that will start with the federal prosecutors who brought the case against epstein. there will be a thorough investigation into whether or not this was a suicide. i think pau

joining us right now, joyce vance, msnbc contributor and former u.s.oliti politico. andrew, congressional lawmakers already demanning an investigation into his death, including ben sass, the senator. what are you hear something. >> so democrats in particular are calling on the house oversight committee to investigate number one the 2008 plea deal. you'll remember the house oversight committee started looking into that issue when alex acosta was still the labor secretary. the u.s. attorney down there in miami who handled the 2008 plea deal. but it kind of got swept under the rug when he ended up resign ing last month. the second thing they want the house oversight committee is of course the circumstance of epstein's death and how such a high profail file inmate was able, perhaps the highest profile inmate in that prison in manhattan, was able to do that. something to look out for from democrats in the coming weeks, will be the extent to which they can trust the attorney general william barr and the justice department at large to connect an investigation

. >> joyce vance who will be on the show tomorrow to talk about this piece says there is a thing called prosecutorial discretion. this is something that didn't have to happen. and yet it did. >> and under tb obama administration, we can have all kinds of discussions about what the right immigration policy is, how to have a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million people who are here, but there was presidential discussion not going after the dreamers. the real dismaying thing, and i believe this is exactly correct, we're seeing a deliberate panic in an entire community as a matter of policy. a way of getting people to -- as mitt romney said years ago self-deport and things are coming up like the census where the administration has made it very clear it does not want to kwount anybody and one way to make sure that doesn't happen is to scare the latino community and other immigrants and the demonzation of latinos and muslims and others, we've seen it throughout american history with many groups, but we haven't seen it in a long time and we haven't heard it from the bully pulpit. that is w