joyce vance, starting with you.t do you make of all these top officials and all kinds of officials, bipartisan group, public servants, professional prosecutors, if you will, investigators, what do you make of all them coming out like this putting their names on something, this document? you're on there, joyce. i just learned that. >> it's unusual for this many prosecutors to speak with one voice, chris. obviously this is a topic that one would expect heated debate on. the letter, i understand, was the product of a lot of negotiation, but at the end of the day 2,000, and that number continues to grow as more people sign the letter, have voiced their concern about this attorney general's continued service. >> who is at the head of this? what was the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will? whose group was behind this that got the signatures together? >> i think there were a number of different groups of people inside d.o.j., alums, as you say, former assistant u.s. attorneys, former u.s. attorneys. if you look

joyce vance very quickly, what would make you think that barr isn't being disingenuous.hat action could he take next? >> if barr got on a same with the president and announced that they were taking legislation to the congress that would change the sentencing guidelines for people accused of witness intimidation and that they would be making similar recommendations in every case pending nationwide and asking for sense reductions for people that are serving sentences that are similar to the one that roger stone is being asked to serve, then this might look like it wasn't disingenuous. until they do that, this is just a favor they are doing for one of the president's longtype friends. >> joyce, carol, kelly, i have to say, it's still -- i know there is a lot of doubters on here, but i have to say, this is going to be an interesting one. i will be very curious to see if the president can handle bill barr, essentially, pushing back at him. thank you very much. >>> coming up, much more on the attorney general's comments because when a loyalist like barr rebukes the president p

joyce vance, talk to us about what the range of sentencing could be here. the prosecutors have revised their softer recommendation and they are recommending significant jail time. >> so keeping up with doj's position has been a little bit like watching a ping-pong match, andrea, and i expect we'll here official or unofficial commentary after sentencing ends about why the government's different positions are all consistent. we'll have to assess that when it happens. but the judges is in the process of building a record. she knows this sentence will be appealed, wherever she decides to sentence, whether it's within the guideline range or above or below it, she knows stone will likely appeal any significant sentence. she's making an air-tight record that will be difficult for the court of appeals to review, dislodge in any significant way. that sentence is based on stone's prior criminal history. he has none and also assessment of his conduct. there's an assigned value for the conduct. but what the judge is doing now is looking at additional factors to decide

attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law and msnbc contributor joyce vance. re not prone to saying things that are designed to fear monger, but this is different. this is the united states justice department which we all understand is a branch of the executive. but what we have not understood until this last week and maybe we should have but we have not understood the degree to which bill barr is acting like donald trump's attorney general as opposed to the attorney general of the united states. >> i think that's right, ali. although the "time" article is not mine, i share those sentiments. i think the important thing for people to understand is that there should never be any politically motivated interference in the criminal justice system. the president can't use criminal prosecutions as a political tool to punish his perceived enemies and to help his friends. and the concern here is that is what we're seeing with this doj and it's worth pointing out that something that prosecutors take enormous care with is to avoid not just improper actions, but also the a

attorney joyce vance and matt miller a former chief spokesman at the department of justice is here. take me through what's being reporter about what looks like another special counsel-like examination into the investigators who investigated a trump ally. >> what they've told us is that barr asked the u.s. attorney in st. lieues to look into an inquiry in the flynn case, specifically his fbi interview, which is at the center of everything having to do with flynn. our understanding is it happened recently. it was very sensitive. so, it was not necessarily something he wanted out in the open. like we've seen with these other sorts of inquiries that barr has ordered up. the concern that people i talk to had is that it could be one of two things. one is if you look at who was involved in the fbi -- flynn's fbi interview t was january 24th, 2017, andrew mccabe, peter struck and those are all the greatest hits that the president likes to harp on and has criticized and have said should face some sort of criminal penalties. and they haven't yet. this could be a sort of way to dig at them som

>> joyce vance, about a month ago, bernie sanders said that's when he heard about it. it was starting to become public that william barr has declared that any consideration of any version of any investigation of anything involving a presidential campaign must go through him. he must okay every step of it. any possible linkage there? >> well, it is hard to know what's going on at this point. the time line overall has a lot of coincidences that will only understand the full value of in hindsight. the important takeaway from this is that what the president is doing is trying to destroy many of the institutions that contribute to our national security. instead of looking at the justice department and the intelligence community in isolation, which has been i think what we've done until now, we need to begin to look at these as one time line of occurrences and the president tries to weaken doj. tries to weaken the intelligence community. there is no more speaking truth to power. instead, there is just trump insisting he hear only facts and a narrative that suit him. that's d

. >>> leading off our discussion tonight, the author of "information wars," and joyce vance, a former federal prosecutor from the university of alabama school of law. all three msnbc contributors. and a big difference between bernie sanders and donald trump in the reaction to russian interference in the campaign. >> yes. bernie was very strong and forthright, spoke to camera, addressing it to vladimir putin as you mentioned in the introduction. donald trump has never done that, has never acknowledged it. it is a little unclear what russia is doing on behalf of bernie sanders. in 2016, it was clear. they were anti-hillary. they were trying to subvert her campaign so they were supporting bernie. why they're supporting him now is not clear. maybe as bernie points out, they do try to sow discord and a campaign between donald trump and bernie sanders might sow as much discord as we've ever seen in a presidential election. it's unclear why they're doing it. >> bernie sanders said everything about this today that donald trump has refused to say. >> that's right. he made very clear that he's

kurt bardella and joyce vance. kurt, by the way, was a former spokesperson for the house oversight committee on the republican side and joyce was a former u.s. attorney. >>> nearly 1700 precincts, hundreds of thousands of caucus goers and a system so confusing that candidates are pouring time and money into helping their supporters understand it all. we'll head to the big board to break down the iowa caucuses. this is msnbc. than rheumatoirits or psoriatic arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; don't start xeljanz if you have an infection. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots hav

leading off our discussion tonight are joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, she's a professor at the university of alabama school of law. barbara mcquaid is with us. former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. all three are msnbc legal analysts. joyce, let me start with you and let's start with the pardons and the commutations and your reaction to that package delivered today. >> if this was the first time we'd ever seen president trump deliver a pardon package, as you called it, i think more aptly, a pardon party, then maybe we would think that he was trying to fulfill some kind of a commitment to criminal justice reform and doing justice. but we know better than that at this point in the trump presidency. we know that this is a president who uses pardons to signal to people who have been his friends and have been his associates that if they will not turn and testify against him, that he will take care of them down the road. and with this package of pardons for people who have engaged in public co

joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor.nk you to both of you. >>> the trial of the president may be all but over, but at what cost? when we come back, what the mass republican senate loyalty to trump says about his fervent supporters and its ratifications for the 2020 presidential election. you are watching msnbc. tcng msnc n dealing with our finances really haunted me. thankfully, i got quickbooks, and a live bookkeeper's helping customize it for our business. (live bookkeeper) you're all set up! (janine) great! (vo) get set up right with a live bookkeeper with intuit quickbooks. when i get my teeth cleaned, my hsomething like this. she cleans with something like this. it's got a round head. and it's got power. go pro with oral-b. power one on for oral-b's best clean ever. inspired by dentists. ...oral-b's round brush head surrounds each tooth... ...to remove more plaque along the gum line... for cleaner teeth and healthier gums. i'll only use the one that's round. oral-b. brush like a pro. yeah? who's peter? well sweetie,

instead of somebody else's sentencing, like joyce vance said.rump than the rest of us do, and donald trump is scared. >> oh, exactly. i mean, look how trump is going above and beyond for roger stone. there's no doubt that stone has made it very clear, this is the guy you need to protect. because he knows where all the bodies are buried. it's interesting, joe, look at the attack on joe jackson. everybody needs to understand something here about this judge. her record is non-partisan. when republicans believe it or not, a time when republicans actually defended congressional oversight. he took the obama justice department to court sued over use of executive privilege trying to shield documents for their investigation called fast and furious. the judge who ruled for congressional republicans in they're favor was judge jackson. the idea now that they can permeate this ridiculous absurd notion she's partisan and has it out for republicans and for trump completely betrays her record. and not long ago republicans touted her judgment saying on the side

joyce vance, what do you make of it? >> i think what matt is saying is actually very likely. the more that we hear, it seems like what the attorney general is trying to do is to position himself to save himself. he is trying to come up with a narrative that lets him pretend to the justice department that he has not completely let their independence be taken away by this white house. i think we hear him weaving together a narrative where he said that he spoke with the prosecutors, and the prosecutors were the bad guys. the reason we know that is not the truth is because there is a written pleading filed in the united states court, signed by the united states attorney in the eastern district of virginia, not the senate confirmed that was ushered out a week early but a newly installed acting u.s. attorney that came straight out of barr's inner circle. we see the effort to circle the wagons and to give barr plausible deniability. i don't think anyone believes he is really criticizing the president but trying to provide cover for the activity that they are engaged in. >> the lawye

attorney, joyce vance and jeremy bash is here. let me start with you. i read as much from that incredible piece of reporting from you and your colleagues as i could get out. but take me through more of it and put it in context for us. >> you know, the context is this critical election briefing provided to congress. as mandated. and the elections are shelby pearson provided information about russian intentions and then she was asking a question about putin and does he want to see trump re-elected and in the hearing she said that's putin's preference and putin favors trump being re-elected. and they were pushing back extremely hard, asking why why the conclusion and what's the evidence of that and it's my understanding it's intel community people who appeared in front of them. and fast forward to the next day, that briefing was february 13th. and on valentine's day, trump, you know, is angry with joe mcguire, right? the acting head of dni, about this briefing and schiff, who's on the intelligence committee, getting misinformation because he fears it's goi

we begin with paul butler and joyce vance. miss vance has a new piece out in "time" magazine that says if trump can turn the justice department into a political weapon n weapon no, one is safe. good evening. your views when you heard these four prosecutors stepped down and the wider issue. >> so president trump is using the justice department and bill barr is using the justice department to punish the president's enemies, and to reward his friends. this is unprecedented. if i were one of those prosecutors, i would have quit, too. think about it. they're standing up. they've been in this courtroom over a year representing the united states of america. and then the sentence recommendation very carefully considered 7 to 9 years. a long time. but think about the crimes, the seven felony that's roger stone was convicted of. aggravating factors. it happened over a long period of time and he threatened wiflth he told one witness, get ready to die. so the seven to nine years was within the guidelines. the president says he doesn't lik

katy benner and joyce vance, thank you both so much for your perspective and expertise. >>> the nextemocratic debate, three days away. coming up one of our moderators joins us from nevada to talk about the big questions. >>> plus joe biden's campaign is in question after a poor showing in iowa and new hampshire. we're following the former vice president as he tries to deal with an enthooiziasm problem. >> we're just getting into the meat of getting to that number delegates you need to be able to win this election. and i'm confident we're going to be in good shape. eciate what mas each person unique. that's why i like liberty mutual. they get that no two people are alike and customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. almost done. what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ thouwhich is breast cancer metastthat has spreadcer, to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast can

joyce vance, matt miller, he signed on to calls for barr's resignation, and columnist for "new york timesuthor of deep state, trump, the fbi, and rule of law. james, help me get my arms around this. do you see clear evidence of wrongdoing on bill barr's part, doing the bidding of the president, or does this all just stink? >> it definitely stinks. this is a shocking departure from norms of independence of the justice department that have been clearly established at least since watergate. so far i haven't seen him breaking the law. ess he is appointed by the president, there to carry out his orders. >> matt, so far the department of justice has prosecuted michael flynn, roger stone, and paul manafort is still sitting in jail. at the same time, president trump's foes, no charges against them. friday, andrew mccabe got a letter that said we're all set, nothing is happening. >> i don't think you get credit for not bringing the case with andrew mccabe, the grand jury seems to not indict, left it hangover him four or five months because you didn't want to tell the president the truth that he wi

criminal justice system, when you turn the department of justice into a political weapon as our friend joyce vance labeled it, whether the doj is a political weapon to be used by the president none of us are safe and he can not only protect the friends but go after the enemies and listen to what he said. he is pushing the new u.s. attorney buddies with barr, they have kicked out the regular career u.s. attorney and he's pushing them to go after mccabe and comey. he's using the department of justice as a political weapon. it is very dangerous. and the problem is there's not really a lot we can do about it until he is no longer in office. >> one thing we can do -- >> we have to do investigations. >> we can tell you that that is a lie. what you just heard the president saying, i want ken back for this. if i can. president trump said, ken, nobody even knows what he did. he got nine months and talking about two months for this and what happened to james comey? there's no question as what was testified to in court and the conclusion the court came to. people can say the court makes sense and this -- the

>> joyce vance said yesterday if he's willing to start reducing sentences for other -- everybody else in roger stone's situation as a blanket policy then maybe she'll buy what he is doing. >> completely agree with that. >> carol, tom, andrew, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> i think washington is simply paralyzed by what to do. the president can do what he wants and everybody seems to agree that that's what's going to happen. >>> up ahead, president trump's new york state of mind and met with andrew cuomo this week and had demands of those new york investigations. and later, does bloomberg risk coming off the bloomberg rose? he is facing new controversies all of a sudden. ♪ if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated... ...with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you

the last word and mia wiley and michael steel former chairman of the rnc and federal prosecutor joyce vance. i want to thank everyone here at the desk and robert costa and everyone at home. it is quite the end of quite a week with a lot going on. robert, as you have been watching this all unfold today, you were also reporting on exactly what is driving different senators including republicans and states where they may have to explain some of this soon. what is your reporting finding? >> the story of friday night really began on tuesday evening when majority leader mitch mcconnell gathered senate republicans and he told them bluntly he did not believe he had had the votes to block witnesses and since that tuesday meeting you saw many republican senators face a reckoning, a choice for their own political career and would they push for witnesses or not. and at the end of the day, many of them, based on my reports, did not want to be out on a limb with senator romney and collins and seen as mavericks in history. mostly because they believe and many of their voters believe that the house process

this is joyce white vance, former u.s. attorney.if a president can meddle in a criminal case to help a friend, then there's nothing that keeps him from meddling to harm someone he thinks is an enemy. that means a president believes he is fully above the law in the most dangerous kind of way. this is how democracies die. senator, is she being hyperbolic? >> no. joyce is stating it exactly correctly. the president believes he is above the law. this is a real concern that the president would view acquittal as he could do anything he wants. and certainly the actions he's taken this week in this case but also in the firing of colonel vindman. apparently they're going to sack this. anybody who was trying to do their job and not fighting against the administration but were just raising questions is now being mowed down with the sickle of this president who's out for revenge. >> but do you think this is how democracies die? >> yes, i do. unless people snap back and say that's not what we want. the american people saying we want and deserve

. >> here is how joyce white vance from the department of justice categorizes what she has seen.a president can meddle in a criminal case to help a friend, then there's nothing to keeps him from meddling to harm someone he thinks is his enemy. that means the president is fully above the law in the most dangerous kind of way. this is how democracies die. this is a real moment that requires a hair on fire, sort of break the glass response. from just the roger stone -- what we've seening in terms of the president in that. do you feel he is feeling more untouchable, unchecked? >> i think when you have an impeachment battle, impeachments are supposed to be how you check executive power in this country. when it was acquitted for him, that is a sign is he isn't going to need to be checked so i'm not surprised to see it this way. the checks we have in this country at the end of the day is elections. and it is going to be if voters do not want this president in office anymore, they are going to need to mobilize to vote him out. i think he has made pretty clear what he is going to do or at

attorney joyce vance, also msnbc legal analyst paul butler.ssertion that the jurors served with integrity shows bias. do you buy that arkt, and legally would that enl be enoug get the judge dismissed from the case? >> i don't buy it, alex, and the judge isn't going to buy it either. this is another example of roger stone trying to gaslight people around him, but he's finally met his match in the federal judiciary because they're not entitled to accept arguments that are counter factual like the ones that he makes here. so, yes, there are some cases where you actually can ask a judge to give you a new trial where the interests of justice would be better reflected. they're unusual but they exist. the comments that judge jackson made at sentencing only exemplify her commitment to the rule of law, her insistence like the jurors in this case who did important work under terrible pressure, that their service is honored and respected even when someone like stone who as we know has a long-time history of promoting himself as an agita r agitator, her r