joyce vance, i want to read you a quote from susan. peter baker knows well. she writes, donald trump's kritdices have harbored a persistent fantasy, that there would be one definitive moment this he would be finally be to the accountable he deserves. each new trump crisis, and there were many, offered a hope to some unambiguous to trump. it never happened. susan describes perhaps our viewing audience tonight. what is the chance this event would lead to real consequences for mr. trump? >> i think we're in a tough spot to evaluate that. but i think susan makes a really important point. there will be an extraordinarily low ebb of confidence in the justice system, if there is no accountability for the president, who engaged in -- that left him from having any real consequences. he was never held accountable. he spent the last four years shielded by the presidency, and now that protection has slipped away, he becomes vulnerable. there are proceeders in georgia, including the call he made soliciting election fraud. we saw in the mueller report, we saw an effort to

and former -- joyce vance who spent years is a federal prosecutor and she also happens to be a cohost of the podcast sisters in law with kimberly atkinson and barbara mcquade. good evening and welcome to all and philip i'd like to begin with you and your be. this new virus surge, let's take the political consequences, the disappointment aspect of it out of the conversation and dwell on public health. i am guessing that the biden west wing is about to address this with some urgency. >> certainly, brian. and we've seen the biden administration and the health officials throughout the government speak with increasing urgency in recent weeks about what the cdc is calling the pandemic of the unvaccinated. the fact that so many americans, tens of millions of americans, many of them in red republican-leaning states are unwilling to be vaccinated in part because of misinformation that they're spreading on social media and in conservative media. this is a growing, urgent concern for leaders in washington and they feel that the infection rates and further complications from california to the eas

joyce vance, i want to redo a quote from one of our favorite writers, susan glasser of the new yorker who peter baker knows well mostly because they are a married couple. she writes, -- . joyce, susan there is describing a group that resembles our viewing tonight. what is the chance that this event could lead to consequences for mr. trump? >> i think we're in a tough spot to evaluate that, brian. i think susan makes a really important point. for one thing, there will be an extraordinarily low above confidence in our justice system if there is never accountability for the former president who engaged in so much wrongdoing in plain sight in only seem to have issues which kept him from having consequences. he never was really held accountable. that is in large part because he spent the last four years shielded by the presidency. now that the protection has slipped away, he becomes increasingly vulnerable. there is this case, proceedings down in georgia perhaps, involving the call he made soliciting election fraud in georgia. it is a real issue whether there will be that one big moment or

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we >> fill rocker thanks to you, amy stoddard, joyce vance much appreciated on this tuesday night. coming, up it sounds like a headline from a year ago. hospitals running short of ventilators. we will ask one of our top doctors about surging covid hospitalizations in places where vaccines are not. and later, it's been described as the moral failure of republican party. the events of six months ago are now revealing about the gop. the 11th hour just getting underway on a tuesday night with one more look at washington's july 4th celebration. we celebration. we you may think you're doing all you can to manage type 2 diabetes and heart disease but could your medication do more to lower your heart risk? jardiance can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. so, it could help save your life from a heart attack or stroke. and jardiance lowers a1c. jardiance can cause serious side effects including dehydration, genital yeast or urinary tract infections, and sudden kidney problems. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may be fatal. a rare b

and joyce vance, who is a law professor at the university of alabama and an msnbc contributor. mike, the president is going to dial up the rhetoric today. beyond the rhetoric, there's not much that he can do legislatively as long as the filibuster remains and as long as there aren't ten republicans willing to support voting rights legislation. president biden talks all the time about how politics is the art of the possible. but right now, mike, what's possible? >> reporter: well, jeff, i have to say the last time i was in this room covering joe biden, he was a candidate fpresident. it was a little over a year ago. he was celebrating some primary night victories. at the time what the biden campaign thought was their formula for success was separating issues that have a very loud and vocal following among a very narrow slice of the electorate and separating it from the issues of importance to a much wider swath of the electorate. in the case of voting rights, you couldn't have a more white hot issue of importance to both the party's bases at the moment. what the president is tryi

actually not a saccording to thn post, the trump organization -- e trump organization - joyce vance anduzanne craig joins me now. joyce, i love the fact that they wrote their own indictment with spreadsheets. your thoughts? >> well, this is an absolutely fascinating sort of commentary toward the top organizations at the trump organization to be making right now. they haven't been indicted yet, ellen weisselberg is the one who's indicted in this particular indictment, at least so far. it's hard to figure that there are criminal defense lawyers for any number of people who have been out there, just face palm-ing as they hear the sort of commentary. >> when you've heard from an owner of a company, when there's an indictment like this, is either to deny that any of the misconduct occurred, or to express outrage, right? i've shopped there is gambling casablanca. gee, it's not much of a crime is it? that approach it's unusual, and it won't play well if it has to play in a courtroom. >> it's sort of an, i only robbing the five and dime, not a rich company like walmart. this is one of the thing

let's begin with joyce vance. she's an msnbc legal analyst, a former u.s. attorney and a professor at the university of alabama law school. always good to see you, professor joyce. let me start with just the overarching goal of the committee. what are some of the absolute critical things that you think that this committee has got to come away with in terms of what it learns, what it exposes, what it proves? whattar are the drop-dead must-dos for this committee? >> you know, this committee has a really difficult job ahead of it. the big question that they have to answer is how are the american people supposed to understand what happened on january 6th as we move forward? so they need to answer at least two big broad categories of questions. first, how did law enforcement miss what was going to happen on january 6th? what were the intelligence flaws like? were there communications failures reminiscent of 9/11? why was it that the capitol police were outmatched when the insurrectionists finally reached the capitol? that's one set of questions. and then there's

joyce vance, good to see you this morning, my friend.nk you. >>> the senate is set to take up president biden's bipartisan infrastructure bill this weekend. in addition to my conversation with transportation secretary pete buttigieg coming up in the next hour, i also spoke with a group of local oregonians to get the human side of what failing infrastructure really looks like. that's next on "velshi." >> let's talk about the fact that we haven't invested in our infrastructure for decades in a meaningful way. and hays threatening american competitiveness. >> it's about heartening built infrastructure but also protecting the soft infrastructure that provides a lots ofs services to us. lots ofs services to us. you now hold in your hands? yeah (laugh) keep your downstairs dry with gold bond body powder. subway®... has so much new they couldn't fit it in their last ad. so, we gonna have to go fast. ready? there's new steak, deli-style turkey, belgioioso® fresh mozzarella, hickory-smoked bacon, new hearty multigrain, and steph curry juggling av

joining us now, joyce vance. former u.s. attorney. at the university of alabama school of law. she's an msnbc legal contributor. joyce, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i have to say, reading these legal filings today, was like reading about what the filings would have been, it feels like, is to timothy mcvay they have been caught in advance. timothy >> i think that's exacte feeling that you get here. this is a big arsenal that these two had amassed. they've got five pipe bombs. they've got fully automatic weapons. they've got 45 to 50 guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition. if this is how you entertain yourself, well, that means that you are a criminal. and to your point, tim mcvay, who is the touchstone for so many of these people, they all use the anarchist cookbook as a way to figure out how to make their devices and how to target their locations. and they all of that to timothy mcvay, with this singular focus on using violence to overthrow the government and using their own acts of violence deradicalize other people

joining us now is joyce vance, district attorney for the you alabama, professor at university of alabama law school. good to be with you. >> good to be with you rachel. >> i have gotten very shy about the word unprecedented but i was surprised when we started poking around that this might be what do you make of the size of the bond and the fact that it was released. >> i was surprised i was that surprised that barrack was barrack was released as released i think i would have released. as a prosecutor i would've gone to the mat, gone through the mat to just because he keep them in is such a flight risk custody. and that's one of. that's the one of the bases federal two bases prosecutors that federal custody -- barrack is pretty much the poster child for a flight risk, dual citizenship, access to a lot of money and private travel, so he's really someone that it is difficult to believe that even a large sum of money could be sufficient to secure his presence. he 74. he undoubtedly doesn't want to spend ten years in prison, that this state statute was could ultimately result in. probably the

joyce vance, thank you very much. >>> and coming up, a perversion of justice.e jeffrey epstein sex trafficking story and new revelations by his alleged victims. this is "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. om the e. and last time i checked, pretzels don't grow on trees. just saying. planters. a nut above. ♪ ♪ when technology is easier to use... ♪ barriers don't stand a chance. ♪ that's why we'll stop at nothing to deliver our technology as-a-service. ♪ to deliver our technology as-a-service. this is cynthia suarez, cfo of go-go foodco., an online food delivery service. business was steady, until... gogo-foodco. go check it out. whaatt?! overnight, users tripled. which meant hiring 20 new employees and buying 20 new laptops. so she used her american express business card, which gives her more membership rewards points on her business purchases. somebody ordered some laptops? cynthia suarez. cfo. mvp. get the card built for business. by american express. why hide your skin if dupixent has your moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis under control? hid

attorney for the northern district of alabama, joyce vance.episode that just dropped today. i encourage everybody to listen to it because you guys tackle a bunch of issues, including this one, and you say weisselberg isn't looking at a lot of jail time if convicted. as to whether he could flip, you pointed to others who said they wouldn't but did. did you elaborate? >> it's an interesting issue that prosecutors face. what do you do when you're building your way up the chain, you've got someone you need to become a witness, but they're resistant to cooperating with you. so the reality here is that what weisselberg ultimately faces under this indictment if he's convicted is most likely a sentence in low single digits, and he may have decided he certainly would have been well aware of that during negotiations before indictment, so he may have well decided that that's something that he can deal with. but what you're referring to and what i think is really interesting here is the evolution that we saw with michael cohen after he was indicted. you'l

attorney joyce vance. she also happens to be one of the co-hosts of the podcast sisters-in-law. good evening and welcome to you all. and phillip, i would like to begin with you and your beat. this new virus surge. let's take political consequences, the disappointment aspect of it out of the conversation and dwell on public health. i am guessing that biden west wing is about to address this with some urgency. >> certainly. and we've seen the biden administration and the health officials throughout the government speak with increasing urgency in recent weeks about what the cdc is calling the pandemic of the unvaccinated. the fact that so many americans, tens of millions of americans, many of them in red, republican leaning states won't be vaccinated in part because of what is spreading on sxoem conservative media. this is a growing urgent concern for leaders in washington. they feel the infection rates and further complications from california to the east coast could be continuing to rise as people resist the vaccines. so i think we'll see in the coming days, the president as well

attorney joyce vance and new york times investigative reporter suzanne craig, the team from "the new inances after getting insights into some of their taxes exclusively. joyce, let me go to you first on the legal aspects of this. weisselberg is facing 15 counts including second-degree grand larceny. is this just the tip of the iceberg? is this the beginning and certainly indicated from everything said in court and the indictment that this is just a continuing investigation and that others may well be charged. >> i think that's the big question that we're all struggling with. is this the tip of the iceberg or is this the endgame? something that's clear is that prosecutors don't, right now have sufficient evidence to charge anyone higher up the food chain at trump org than allen weisselberg because if they did they would have charged them all together. that's a common strategy. you want to have everybody on that table across from you pointing the finger at each other in a case like that, that's a strategy that prosecutors often use in corporate prosecutions. so the question becomes will

democracy. >> and on that note we're gonna have to leave it there congressman eric swalwell and joyce vancenk you for joining us, coming up the cdc says the war has changed with the delta variant. what does that mean for vaccinated people as we approach school and office reopenings? doctor uchÉ blackstock will join us. join us. and one we explore. one that's been paved and one that's forever wild. but freedom means you don't have to choose just one adventure. you get both. introducing the wildly civilized all-new 3-row jeep grand cherokee l limu emu... and doug. introducing the wildly civilized so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. oh um, doug can we talk about something other than work, it's the weekend. yeah, yeah. [ squawk ] hot dog or... chicken? [ squawk ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i booked our hotel on kayak. it's flexible if we need to cancel. cancel. i haven't left the house in a year. nothing will stop me from vacation. no canceling. flexible cancellation. kaya

attorney joyce vance. i heard the lead lawyer for this lawsuit on fox the other day.c misunderstanding of the first amendment is and upon whom the obligations of the first amendment fall. as much as i have complaints about google, facebook and twitter, this isn't actually the right lawsuit. >> that's right. so your first amendment free speech rights are guaranteed to you as against the government. the government can't prevent you from exercising the free speech right. if you walk into the local grocery store they can prohibit certain forms of activity inside the businesses and by the same token facebook and twitter can decide if you engage in speech they don't want they can ban you. this lawsuit i think if you look up frivolous lawsuit in a dictionary there's a picture of the complaints in this lawsuit. it is clearly more along the lines of a fund raising stunt than a legal issue. >> roger, it's frivolous and silly. a little bit of everybody who thinks someone's going after facebook and google and twitter. you yourself have said that those companies, social media comp

. >>> joining me now is joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. abama school of law. joyce, always a pleasure. let's get into this here because we have several major doj headlines to talk about. let's start with the doj saying that the irs has to turn over trump's tax returns to a house committee. what is the legal significance of this? >> well, the legal significance of this is that congress's balance of power with the executive branch is being properly maintained. the statute that this happens under actually requires that the treasury department shall provide this sort of material to congress upon a request. there's a very low threshold here perhaps for treasury and the justice department to make sure that this is pursuant to a legitimate congressional inquiry, but congress has more than met this threshold and it is long past time for this sort of action to be taken here. this really restores the balance of power between the branches of government. >> in terms of time, joyce, how long is it going to take for congress to get these documents, and d

joining us now is our friend joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, professor at the university of alabama school of law. joyce, great to see you here on a friday night. thank you so much for being here. >> good to be with you, rachel. >> i have gotten very shy about the word "unprecedented" but i was surprised when we started poking around and realized that this might be the largest bond ever put up in a u.s. criminal case ever. what do you make of the size of that bond and the fact that barrack, in fact, was released? >> i was surprised that barrack was released. as a prosecutor i think i would have gone to the mat to try to keep him in custody just because he is such a flight risk, and that's one of the two bases federal prosecutors have for keeping a defendant in custody until trial, either that they're a flight risk on a danger to the community. barrack is pretty much the poster child for a flight risk, dual citizenship, access to a lot of money and private travel. so he's really someone that it is di

joyce vance and mike schmidt joining us.g her and how drastic of a shift is it to have someone as a former federal prosecutor step in and take over her fight to end her conservatorship? >> so there's a feeling from the spears' side that she has not had an aggressive lawyer, a lawyer that came from a top-tier firm that could use all of the resources of that firm to aggressively represent her in trying to get out of the conservatorship. what she is seeking is she is seeking basically a high-end criminal defense lawyer, a lawyer that has a range of experience, a lawyer who has done litigation, a lawyer who has represented celebrities and a lawyer who is willing to take on the other side. her father's side is represented by another prominent firm, and this is a huge legal fight with a lot of money on the line, obviously a lot of questions about freedom and choice and, you know, someone's ability to make their own decisions about their own lives. that's what brought her to reach out to mathew rosengart. he is based in california.

i want to bring in joyce vance.u're down at the courthouse, set the scene for us and walk us through the latest. >> that's right. as you said allen weisselberg already turned himself in. as far as the trump organization there is no one to turn themselves in, the whole company is being indicted today. so in court today tat 2:15 is cy vance. 2:15 is the time, and we'll have the attorneys and the trump organization make statements or answer questions on behalf of the company. and then allen intends to plead not guilty today. they will read out the specific violations of law that has been violated here. the reason that we're here today, and shortly after that we plan to get our hands on the court paperwork, itself. there is a realtime line, and it is called a speaking indictment. typically we don't get that in new york state, but because they're charging the organization, will we get that today, will that be helpful for us. so that is something that we will be tracking later this afternoon. so far everything is on time.

we turn to our joyce vance. thanks for being here. what happens next in a case like this? an interesting case ari, because the indictment was sealed, the defendant was rested and unsealed which gives you the sense of not a cooperation deal here. we'll see this case moves toward as plea agreement or a trial. i don't expect and we'll see at least based on what we heard so far there is cooperation in the offering. >> very good point, a reminder of how scary it could be. i want to play a little something from bloomberg tv here. take a look. >> you have deep and long standing ties to the catarris, are they behind you on this effort? >> yes. the region is so complicated. >> mr. barrack may not be a household name but test a wall street household name. that's the bloomberg interview. what do you make of the fact that the indictment includes his activities. >> in many ways his indictment is so compelling, i can't remember another case like this where you essentially have a victim. the president of the united states and mark lesco, the acting head after national security division m

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as joining us, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama.sters-in-law podcast. jake sherman, let me show you liz cheney following her -- i think it's one of the incidents that you've explained was at the root of her break with mccarthy suggesting that he had something to share in an investigation into january 6th. she now has her sights on jim jordan. watch. >> congressman jim jordan was mccarthy's pick for this committee and this new book "i alone can fix it" reports an encounter that you had with him. you told him, "get away from me. you did this." what did you mean by "you did this" and do you think jordan should be called to testify? >> you know, i think congressman jordan may well be a material witness. he's somebody who was involved in a number of meetings in the lead-up to what happened on january 6th, involved in planning for january 6th, certainly for the objections that day as he said publicly. so he may well be a material witness. >> so, jake sherman, it's my bet that kevin mccarthy and jim jordan and liz cheney in an elevator rid

joining me now is joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst.most from this indictment? >> the more i've studied this indictment, and it's 40-plus pages, seven counts against him and two co-defendants, the issue in the case that we don't see very often is the president of the united states is presented as the victim of one of his allies, tom barack and that barrack was acting as an agent of the uae without registering which is the technical violation here. what likely brought him to the attention of investigators and prosecutors wasn't just the failure to register knowing that he was acting on behalf of the uae but also lying about it. there's a charge he did that in connection with the grand jury. it's not clear what the conduct was, but that he lied to investigators when they were interviewing him. all of that would work together to convince prosecutors this had to be an indictment to be brought. >> should anyone else from your area of expertise be concerned about being targeted by the doj as this plays out? >> that's the most interesting unan

joyce vance and suzanne fring. love they wrote their own indictment with spreadsheets.well, this is absolutely fascinating commentary tour for top executives of the trump organization to be making right now. they haven't been indicted yet, allen weisselberg is the one in this particular indictment so far. but hard to figure there aren't criminal defense lawyers for any number of people face palming as they hear this commentary. what you expect from owner of company when there's indictment like this either to deny any of the misconduct occurred or express outrage. i'm shocked there's gambling in "casablanca," this probably won't play well if it's in the trial. >> i only robbed the five and dime. doesn't help you. trump argued, never before has new york city city or any prosecutors criminally charged a company. lorena hemsley's ghost. she was convicted. folks do get prosecuted for this in new york and elsewhere, right? >> both state and federal systems. this is a strategy we've seen trump use before, this notion of not an important crime, people don't get prosecuted for t

scott macfarlane and joyce vance, thank you for starting us off. sam stein will stay around. >>> the reverend al sharpton spent close to two hours with president biden and vice president harris working on a plan to fight the gop voting restriction laws. >>> plus, the latest jab from a republican senator against the u.s. military. this time it's senator tom cotton calling for a professor at the air force academy to be fired for daring to discuss race with her students. >>> and tennis star naomi osaka breaking her silence after her bold stand at the french open. one long time reporter calling it a watershed moment for the sport. we'll bring you all those stories and more when "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. white house" continues after a quick break. the rule in business used to be, "location, location, location." now it's, "network, network, network." so you need a network that's built right. verizon business unlimited starts with america's most reliable network. then we add the speed of verizon 5g. we provide security that's m

joyce vance, professor at the alabama school of law. she is an msnbc legal analyst and david k. johnston, founder of dcreport.org. let's begin before we delve into a point that pete williams raise you had. the flip of the justice department revising the decision from 2019 to say that there is now awe legal purpose. it doesn't have to be simply legislative purpose in terms of why the tax returns should be handed over to this committee. is that a common practice or could a krit uk say that is because there is a leadership change or a political change and the department of justice under trump. they want to protect him. now it's different. >> i would expect that there were some criticism of this move by olc, the office of legal counsel. in reality this one is fair and square. the language of this statute is plain. it says that the treasury department shall provide. it doesn't require any sort of awe legitimate purpose. i doesn't even rur good faith. this is a surprising decision to me frankly even when under the trump administration the tax returns were withheld. it is mandatory and

let's bring in nbc news investigation correspondent tom winter and msnbc contributor joyce vance. lot of people in the public think, oh, isn't this the kind of stuff people do all the time in administrations? aren't they always sort of sharing information and doing favors? how serious are these charges right now and how do they sort of play out as opposed to other charges we've heard against former trump people? >> a couple of things. first off he is faced with two discrete columns of charges. on the firsthand you have the failure to register as a foreign agent. i will come back to that. the second part of this is lying to the fbi and obstruction of justice tied to his interview, several interviews that he did with federal agents. the last interview he did with them is almost over two years ago in june of 2019. so when you look at this as far as the charged conduct, typically lying to the fbi, there's not that kind of a stiff of a penalty in and of itself. it might become a little more severe because he did it in conjunction with another crime, which gets us back to the first colu

i want to bring in attorney joyce vance, and columnist kimberly atkins, and half of the sisters-in-lawe other jill winebancs and jill moore, and so, spears is in discussions to hire another lawyer who happens to be a former federal prosecutor who would be expected to aggressively push to end this conservatorship, and what do we know about her, and what about this permission to ask the court to hire a lawyer? >> that is a central question here in the conservatorship, because once you lose control of of your personal affairs as someone like britney spears does in a conservatorship, these personal decisions like who is your lawyer are no longer yours to make. and one of the complaints is that she was not aware that she could ask to end it. so the natural next step for her is to have a lawyer that she trusts, but that is going to require a minimum of an approval from the judge who could sign off from the selection or possibly given some form of assistance, and some sort of a guardian ad litem process or consultation process that would help her counsel her in the choice of approval, and ano

and joyce vance. take us in the courtroom. how did all this go down?was high drama. britney spears addressing the court, speaking passionately at one point. the judge asked her to slow down so the court reporter to take notes. at one point she was in tears, telling the court about the conservator ship, detailing what she alleged is abuse, how she was stopped from even being able to eat hamburgers, french fries, caffeine. saying it impacted her ability to drive as well. we did hear from her father, jamie speers, through his attorney in court. his lawyer saying britney made many misstatements, saying the past 13 years, jamie spears represented the interest of his daughter. then we heard from britney spears' new attorney, that she could choose herself. her prior attorney stepped down after 13 years. former federal prosecutor turned lawyer to the stars, he represented the likes of sean penn and ben affleck. we heard him address the court in a passionate manner, taking aim primarily at jamie spears, addressing the media, reiterating what he said in court, h

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a prosecutor. great to have all of you here tonight.l rucker, obviously, you have covered not just donald trump extensively, but also his political circle. help us get some perspective here. what or who is animating, stoking these continued lies about 2020, the belief that somehow, somewhere, the results are still going to get overturned? is this still trump's ego? who is he listening to these days? help us understand where we are right now. >> well, chris, it's an important question and, you know, all of my reporting suggests that it's trump himself who is directing the continuation of this big lie throughout the republican party and, of course, throughout his orbit. he's not the only one responsible. he's having inputs of information from throughout his political circle. from his various allies, political allies, from conspiracyists. he's being shown articles or theories or commentary that he sees on a right wing cable shows or radio shows suggesting that not only was the election stolen, but that there's a hope with these, quote/unqu

attorneys, joyce vance. the failure to anticipate the attack is one of the big questions.ed on social media posts, but capitol police did not consider those online threats credible, according to the senate's investigation, at least. so what questions would you want to ask the fbi director if he were to be called before the committee? >> this is a great place to start, andrea. it's critical to reconcile the discrepancies we have between the head of the washington field office of the fbi. he said the bureau had no intelligence of anything beyond first amendment protected activity, with the clear reporting from the field office, which talked about folks who were intent on going to war, and even parler sent tips to the fbi. understanding how that information was handled and why it didn't reach the top levels of the fbi will be important to diagnosing to problems here and preventing a reoccurrence. >> and another big shocker was how outnumbered capitol hill police officers were. they weren't equipped. they've had a big change in management, as recently as last friday, with the

with me now is msnbc contributor joyce vance, the cohost of the sisters in law podcast. great to see you this morning. i don't know that most good americans care at this point whether kevin mccarthy decides to populate his part of the panel. they care we get to the bottom of how this happened, what prevents it from happening again, and who our elected members are who may have been assisting and aiding and abetting the insurrectionists >> it's so important to have a historically accurate version of what happened here. and many people may forget now that we have the 9/11 report, many of us have read all or parts of it. but we forget that that process too was a difficult one. not everyone embraced it at the outset. but the lesson we learn from the 9/11 report is that if this january 6th process proceeds so we can understand the facts without any sort of varnish put on them, what happened, who was there, what did they do, and also hear from expert witnesses who can inform us prospectively about what can be done to prevent a recurens in the future, what do we need to do in th

let's bring in andrew weissman and joyce vance, both are msnbc legal analysts. andrew, i'll begin with you. many said that allen weisselberg is the tip of a larger iceberg. if that is true, what did you learn yesterday when the indictments were unsealed and what's below the surface? >> i think it was a correct description that this was a sweeping indictment. they talk about a 15 year scheme that began long before president trump was the president, continued during the time he was president, and even continued after he was president, involved numerous organizations under the trump ulbrel la and numerous executives. this was a shot across the bow, i think the beginning not the end of the investigation. the signal to allen weisselberg and others is get on board now because we're not afraid to bring charges and we're going to be detailed and thorough in our investigation because what they did bring yesterday was impressive. >> joyce, do you agree what they brought yesterday was impressive? >> i agree with andrew in that regard. and i'm struck every time i hear the f

our friend joyce vance posts a provocative question. what else might they have gotten wrong?ood illustration on the point john was making between balancing transparency and empowering the rank and file but also making the policy changes. this is a big one and, by the way, they did get it wrong. this really seems like a dubious opinion. the law is crystal clear the chair of the house ways and means committee says can i have this please and the law says you shall give it to them. the law doesn't even say you need a valid legislative purpose. some people suggest that but if you did the doj found it and plainly there is and it's interesting that pelosi. many could have stated she was the very one they were citing before, it couldn't be more clear the old opinion was wrong. the reason you needed it before was to investigate these conflicts of interest. a legitimate thing for congress to do for that reason. there's no wriggle room at all and it was a wrong and i daresay political opinion by the predecessor doj. >> we're back where we started, the politicalization of the doj. inspec

two former prosecutors and friends of this show, andrew weissmann and joyce vance tell nbc news thatr representing the trump organization is noteworthy, as is the fact that weisselberg himself is paying them, not the trump organization. all of that could suggest that there is some daylight now between weisselberg and the trump organization and the diverging interests between them. it comes as "the washington post" is reporting that government filings appear to show weisselberg has resigned as a trustee from the trust that controls all of the trump organization's assets. let's bring in chuck rosenberg who worked on the staffs of robert mueller and jim comey at the fbi, is now an msnbc contributor, and harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general and u.s. attorney. i said federal prosecutors, obviously this is the cy vance, tish james investigation. we are engaged in tea leaf reading but tell me if there is sort of a process of separating from a joint defense strategy and if this is one of them, having lawyers that don't overlap in any way. >> there is a process and i really

nbc nassau legal contributor joyce vance says his choice of representation could indicate he is lookingst her father and the conservatorship she says ruined her life. >> reporter: this morning, britney spears appearing to celebrate on instagram, posting she feels gratitude and blessed. coming after her raw and emotional day in court wednesday, testifying remotely by phone, the 39-year-old sobbed as she once again lashed out at her father jamie, demanding he be removed as her conservator immediately and charged with conservatorship abuse, she was extremely scared of jamie and wants him investigated. this is literally allowing my dad to ruin my life. they're not really listening to what i'm telling them. it's like, sad. >> reporter: brittany's 13-year conservatorship the subject of a documentary. >> i'm sad. >> reporter: jaymie spears has controlled his daughter's finances for most of it. with a second conservator now in choornl of her personal affairs. on wednesday, brittany telling the court the conservatorship controlled her diet saying she was often barred from eating hamburgers and f