barbara mcquade, joyce vance, thank you both. i'm yasmin vossoughian.reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation" starts right now. >>> good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lead, thankful for what we have. right now i'm still fairly full, but not with the remaining warmth of my thanksgiving meal, no. but with a pre-holiday hope for our national priorities. because the season has now opened

with me is joyce vance and advisor to the doc. joyce vance, let me start with you. we go through -- we're getting a little more specific now. we're now talking about the funding and the financing of these events that led to what we saw happen on january 6th. but there is also a little more. taylor budowich is the spokesman and he said you had a 501 to encourage people to attend and the select committee has reason to believe you were directing the organization approximately $200,000 from a source or sources not disclosed in the organization to pay for advertising. what would be the significance of figuring out who funded this whole thing? >> right, you know, prosecutors love to follow the money, joy, and apparently now congress does, too. because you can learn a lot. you learn the important elements of who wanted to do something, what they wanted to do and what they were willing to do to get there. so this has been i think a piece of this puzzle from get-go. there was reporting early on that the republican attorney general ease association was also involved in making

sam stein, kimberly atkins store, and joyce vance, our starting line with our thanks on a thursday night. >>> coming up for us, with the dust now settling in the commonwealth of virginia, two of our very favorite political observers are here for a damage assessment for the democrats. >>> and later, 84 million workers now face a deadline to either get vaccinate or get tested a lot. that's generating even more resistance from the right as anti-vaxxers get busy once again. luckily for us, we have a top doctor standing by. all of it as we are just getting under way on "the 11th hour" for a thursday night beneath the capitol dome. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ a thursday night beneath the a thursday night beneath the . >>> following glenn youngkin's victory in vaerjs politico reports he tapped into the parents pandemic era frustrations in that statement now republicans want to use his playbook in 2022. quote, republicans say his frequent messaging on education, stoking parental worries about progressivism in the classroom while urging them to play a greater role in schools, helped him pull ah

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she hosts the podcast "sisters in law" along with our friends kimberly atkins stohr, jill wine-banks and barbara mcquade. counselor, i need to begin with you. given the news at the top of our broadcast tonight, these two notable names are big names that come out seemingly late in the game on the subpoena list though we don't get to know how long the game is planned for. what's your read on this latest round of subpoenas? >> well, it looks like congress is doing what prosecutors typically do. they're following the money. they're trying to figure out who funded the events on january 6th, which will be very telling in helping them place accountability. p but they're also doing something else that i think is a sign that they have actually gotten a fair bit of information as they've been interviewing cooperating parties. they appear to be zeroing in on conversations that were attempted or perhaps had with the white house by people who were concerned that there was a risk of violence in con

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. bly co-host of the podcast sisters in law" along with our friends kimberly atkins store, jill banks and barbara mcquade. counsellor, indeed, joyce, i have to start with you. the stay has been denied. the same judge who ruled so forcefully that donald trump had no standing to keep these documents away from the committee, she went as far in her ruling as to say presidents are not kings. the way the federal system works, you have to go to that same judge who just ruled and ask for a stay, and then it gets bumped up the line. long story short, question, what's the real chance we're going to see these documents handed over to the committee in a matter of days? >> you know, it is hard to assess. there is some reason to believe that when the court of appeals gets to take a look at this, either tonight or tomorrow morning, they may slow it down a little bit and put some sort of temporary stay in place while they evaluate the case. of course, it will likely go from that court up to the supreme

joyce vance let me bring you in here.f our legal analysts here. your reaction? >> well, the indictment seems appropriately tailored to the circumstances and it is very interesting, hallie, as you pointed out. there are two separate counts here. there is a count that charges bannon with failure to show up to testify. there is also a count that charges him with failing to produce documents and other materials that are requested. so we see how the issues in this case are converging on the case that's already in front of the d.c. circuit, the case where president trump is objecting to turnover of his presidential papers. >> yep. >> the ultimate issue to get decided in both matters is whether president trump has the ability to try to block these materials, or whether once president biden determines that those materials have to be turned over because january 6th and the events of the insurrection have such grave impact on the nation that these materials have to be turned over. that issue gets determined here. >> lee anne, i hav

it's always good to have joyce vance with us.oth strategies here, but first, let's talk about the decision to put mr. mcmichael up there yesterday. and then what i found to be an interesting tactic, which was they really wanted to establish the defense did that mr. mcmichael was a well trained in law enforcement techniques, which i thought was an interesting decision because then, look, i think it ended up opening up what we saw today, what do you make of the decision of putting him on the stand, number one, and how did you think the prosecution did today, number two? >> this reads like a real desperation tactic. you don't put a defendant like this on the witness stand unless what you're hoping is that you can convince one or two jurors to hold out so that the jury hangs instead of convicting. this strategy that they pursued of bolstering law enforcement credentials was designed to give a effect to the defense that we expect to hear them talk more about in closing argument, that travis mcmichael and his father intended to effect

joyce vance, the huber statement brings up something uncomfortable. two people died, one almost died. and nobody's paying any penalty. now, some could argue that the trial itself was a form of penalty for mr. rittenhouse, what was facing him. but how does the huber family get closure? i don't know if they ever will. >> you know, it's a really difficult issue. and i'll speak to it personally, because my father-in-law who was a federal judge was murdered because of his judicial service. and ultimately the man who was responsible for killing him was convicted at trial in both state and federal settings. and that fact of conviction does give families an enormous amount of closure. and something i've always been acutely aware of as a prosecutor is that there are a number of things that are important to victims. but among them is learning the truth and having people accept responsibility and be held accountable. and so in this setting, where yes, to some extent the family does know the truth, and they've been able in some cases to see video, as grainy as it

joyce vance is here. former u.s. attorney, now professor at the university of alabama school of law. also, "washington post" congressional correspondent, author of the early 202 newsletter. eugene daniels is here, politico white house reporter. joyce, i want to start with you. with the question about an investigation. i mean, the investigation now has some public facing evidence of where it is focused and this list seems to be on the witnesses to donald trump's conduct. is that how you see it? >> that's exactly how i see it. you can tell a lot about where an investigation is headed from the witnesses that are being called. these are people who were literally in trump's inner circle, but also the folks that he talked to leading up to january 6th. so nicolle, if the key question in watergate was what did the president know and when, the january 6 committee is going to ask those questions, but they're also intent on cutting straight to the chase in figuring out what did the president and what was he willing to do to get

we're also joined by joyce vance. thank you for being with me. sam, there's already been quite a back and forth from the jury today. right? >> there's been some activity, jose. they are in their ninth hour of deliberations. at about 9:40 or so eastern, the jury requested video that the cell phone video showing the pursuit and ultimately the death of ahmaud arbery. they watched it three times in high resolution version. they also requested the 9-1-1 tapes and here's the key part of that. they only listened to about the first 20 or thirty-seconds which says 9-1-1, what is your emergency? and gregory mcmichael responds, i'm out here. there's a black man running and presumably he was going to say down the street and is interrupted by dispatch. that's basically what they listened to. that what happened within the last hour or so. the defense's argument has been staked the entire time on a community-wide crime spree that was going on at the neighborhood, and the idea there was a citizen's arrest being carried out by the mcmichaels. the problem with tha

sam stein, kimberly accidents joyce vance, our starting line with our thanks on a thursday night. coming up for us with the dust now settling in the commonwealth of virginia. two of our very favorite political observers are here for a damaged assessment, for the democrats. 84 million workers now face a deadline to get vaccinated, or get tested a lot. that's generating even more resistance from the right, as the anti vaxxer's get busy once again, luckily for us, we have a top doctor standing by. all of it, as we are just getting underway on the 11th hour, great thursday night beneath the capitol dome. ay night beneath the capitol dome [♪♪] cooking and eating at home more often means food odors get trapped in your home's fabrics and released back into the air so you smell last night's dinner the next morning. for an easy way to keep your whole home smelling fresh try febreze fabric refresher. febreze's water-based formula deeply penetrates fabrics to eliminate trapped food odors as it dries. spray febreze fabric refresher when you clean up after meals to ensure your entire home smel

attorney joyce vance and the "new york times" national politics reporter jeremy peters. leann, what are we hearing on the select committee on whether meadows or his attorney may have made a briefly appearance from all indications there was not a virtual appearance and he is not in compliance. >> hi, andrea, that's right. we were staking out the committee room of where he was supposed to appear. we know he did not show up in person. we had been wondering if he perhaps showed up virtual live through zoom or whatever means possible over the internet and i just got confirmation that that did not happen either. so we know now that mark meadows was a no-show for the subpoena that he was supposed to come be deposed or testify at this morning before the january 6th select committee. we haven't yet heard from the select committee officially on what they're going to do next, but we do know that in a letter to mark meadows' attorney sent yesterday, ne did threaten that they would refer the case out for criminal contempt to the justice department should he not comply. we haven't got

joining me is joyce vance. you have been following this case and all of the attended cases closely.bout the texas law, justics kavanaugh and coney-barrett, did note some skepticism about the texas law. what do you make of those? >> they did sound some skepticism. it wasn't about whether it should remain constitutional in the united states. it had more to do with the veek -- vehicle that texas has chosen to implement the law. your listeners are familiar with the vigilante system where anyone in the country can get a $10,000 bounty for suing anyone who aided abetted, assisted them in getting it. the supreme court got the chance to take a good hard look at this mechanism. justices barrett and kavanaugh got cold feet about this mechanism, deciding that perhaps it could also be used in other states to, say, impact gun rights or other substantive issues that they cared about more. the vigilante justice system didn't look good when it was exposed in that light. >> let's talk about the copycat laws. ohio seems to go further than the texas law. are these relevant in the current landscape. is

attorney, joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she importantly host the podcast sisters in law along with kimberly atkins store, jill wine-banks, and barbara mcquade. good evening and welcome to you both. a legal question to begin with, biden doesn't want to cooperate. he wants something close to televised martyrdom. the committees hopes and dreams is riding on this, how long could this drag out? steve bannon certainly has an agenda, of making this twist in the win for as long as possible. but he's cap and in the context of the criminal justice system, brian. for one thing is there's a 70-day speedy trial act which although not all districts can serve that strictly, that's the time that you have to go from indictment to trial. benin can file some motions that will run that clock out a little bit longer. this is not a complicated case with a lot of discovery. ultimately at least, getting to a trial and getting a jury to decide this case, is something that could easily happen early next year. >> john carl i said biden, i said ban, i

and former attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a former prosecutor. hosts the podcast "sisters in law." welcome to you both. a legal question to begin with. biden doesn't want to cooperate. he wants something close to televised martyrdom. the committee's hopes and dreams is riding on this in part. how long could this drag out? >> well, steve bannon certainly has an agenda of making this twist in the wind for as long as possible, but he's capped on the criminal justice system, brian. for one thing there is the 180-day speedy trial act. that's the time you have to go from indictment to trial. this is not a complex case with a lot of discovery, and ultimately, at least getting to a trial court and getting a jury to decide this case is something that could feasibly happen early next year. >> john karl, i said biden, i meant bannon. two men who should not be confused, certainly. what did you make of the scene of bannon's making outside court today, john? >> well, he's enjoying every minute of this. this is his chance to play the martyr for trump. i think i

attorney, joyce vance. a long time coming tell us more about the opening arguments today. >> while the prosecution has been focussing on the video we have seen, the actual encounter where arbury was shot and killed, that they say shows that ahmaud arbery was will at least five other times before this incidents. they pour pray them an a burglary suspect, a neighborhood where there was an up tick in climb, and he was there, and acting suspiciously. they even say that travis mcmichael, one of the defendants, encountered arbery a few days before the fatal encounter, apparently -- plundering is the work that the defense attorneys use -- a home there that had been the target of robberies on a number of occasions. the defense maintains. now, in the past the prosecutors have said whatever happened before this day doesn't matter, and they insist that the defendants did not say arbery committing a crime which would give them justification for affecting a citizen's arrest. the bottom line is the prosecutors are trying

. >> joining me now is joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. , joyce, to the self-defense strategy? >> well, it's an interesting strategy. it's probably the only strategy available to these defendants on these facts, and this is, alex, why cases go to trial, when cases aren't close, usually they result in guilty pleas on the terms that are the most potentially favorable to defendants. but here, the stories told by both sides are in sharp contrast. the prosecution has a lot of its evidence on video, and they're already, in opening statement, beginning to play that evidence for the jury, ultimately the jury will have to resolve these two very different versions of what happened that day. >> yeah, for sure. what about the growing controversy around the jury in this case made up of 11 white jurors, 1 black juror. take a listen to what the presiding judge had to say about the discrepancy. >> this court has found that there appears to be intentional discrimination in the panel. quite a few african-american jurors were excused through preemptory strike

joyce vance, thank you as well., great to see you. >>> we're one day away from the first big election since biden took office. steve kornacki is here to break down the latest approval numbers and what they could mean for critical races in new jersey and virginia. we'll be right back. we'll be ri. , we believe in the power of taking steps forward. whatever the pace. and whatever the size. that's why we set out to help make it easier for everyone to move forward financially. see how we can make a difference for you at pnc bank. i didn't have to shout out for help. because you didn't have another dvt. not today. one blood clot puts you at risk of having another, so we chose xarelto®, to help keep you protected. xarelto® is proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. almost 98% of people did not have another dvt or pe. don't stop taking xarelto® without talking to your doctor, as this may increase risk of blood clots. while taking, a spinal injection increases risk of blood clots,

with me now joyce vance, the former u.s. ella, adviser to the dnc and the dccc. i guess the first kind of question for you, joyce, at what point this playing footsie with insurrection cross the line into any crimes? what do they have to do to cross over that line? >> it's a deceptively difficult question because it has to be asked on an individualized basis in each situation. joy, you and i have talked about this before. i think the minute former president trump makes phone calls into georgia asking them to find him the number of votes he needs to win that state, that he has committed the georgia crime of soliciting election crime of trying to solicit the results of that election. who is going to finally step up and prosecute it. >> and also whether or not the select committee can even really fully investigate. stay with me for a second, joyce. this appeals court. three judges on this appeals court have now put a stay on what had been a victory for the 1/6 panel to get these records in the archives of donald trump. now that s

pete williams, melissa murray, joyce vance, thanks to all of you. stay with msnbc all morning wednesday. we'll have special live coverage of the supreme court arguments. we start the coverage at 9:45 a.m. eastern time. 6:45 pacific right here on msnbc. and we want to make this quick note before we go from our white house unit. the administration announcing just minutes ago that federal workers who are not vaccinated will not be immediately terminated. instead, saying agencies can use december as a month of education and counseling on vaccines. right now more than 96% of federal workers are already complying with that order. so the argument is we've had great compliance. we want to give a little more time to get the rest of the work force on board up until the new year. that's going to do it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports". follow the show online, on facebook, and on twitter. garrett haake is in for chuck todd with "mtp daily" right now. >>> if it's monday, it's a global race to contain and to understand the omicron variant. what we jus

joining us now, joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, and katie benner, the "the new york times" justice department reporter whose story on this this morning is required katie, who is looking into this, where is the corpus of information going to come from? as he mentioned and as you reported on, the justice department is prosecuting lots and lots and lots and lots of people. the folks being prosecuted for disorderly conduct and trespass are not going to get us all the way down the road of who started this, who fomented it, who funded it, who organized it, who perpetrated it. is there a bigger investigation going on at the justice department that mirrors or parallels the one that this congressional committee is undertaking? >> sure. so first i would say that your question is also being echoed by judges here in the district. we saw the chief judge beryl howell say that the justice department's approach to this investigation, she called it schizophrenic. she said, you're calling this one of the worst domestic terrorist attacks pe

joining me is joyce vance, nbc legal analyst. all right, joyce, let's get to you there as we've heard from the judge. he's gotten a lot of criticism for his idiosyncrasies in court. how do you view his comments to the jury that we played? >> it's pretty typical for judges to make comments to a jury after a verdict comes in, thanking them for their jury service and reminding them that it doesn't matter what their verdict is, what matters is their commitment to listening to the evidence and doing their best and diligently trying to fulfill their duties. so, this wasn't that unusual. the problem is that it was the final stage of what had been a number of, if not outright efforts to put his thumb on the scale, then blunders by this judge, who didn't seem in any way committed to creating an environment where everyone who was watching the trial would believe it was fair. on many cases, he appeared to have a strong defense orientation and he did nothing once criticism surfaced to try to reinforce the fairness of the proceedings. in many

barbara mcquade, joyce vance, thank you both. i'm yasmin vossoughian. i'll be back here tomorrow 3:00 p.m. eastern. reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation" starts right now. >>> good evening and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lead, thankful for what we have. right now i'm still fairly full, but not with the remaining warmth of my thanksgiving meal, no. but with a pre-holiday hope for our national priorities. because the season has now opened up officially with the senate slated to take up the build back better plan after its passage in the house last week, and president biden's comprehensive plan to modernize our nation is now that much closer to reality. even as the current sum of nearly $2 trillion in social spending is in question, subject to both moderate democrats' demands and the republican party's wall of resistance. which can count among its victories this year, the complete blockage of voter expansions or the elections with gop state lawmakers entrenching their advantages in battleground states. and senate republicans doing the rest o

joyce vance and maya wiley are back with me. joyce, here's the number one question i have.w? is it because they realized that they put on a crappy prosecution? >> well, you know, i don't think i would characterize the prosecution that way, jonathan. >> okay. >> the problem with this trial is that it's been under a microscope and sometimes things don't look very good as you're watching the sausage get made. it's not uncommon to see lesser included offenses coming up in the charging conference. but in a case like this it may well be an acknowledgment that not everything has gone precisely as the prosecution would have hoped. on the other hand, the lesser included offenses are serious charges that carry lengthy sentences. a conviction on lesser included offenses would be a victory. the real question i have, conviction in a criminal case takes a unanimous jury. having tried a number of civil rights cases, cases where we indicted a police officer for a civil rights crime, very often you have jurors that are unable to reach unanimous jurors, a hung jury. that's a possible outcome

and joyce vance. thank you all for being with us. jonathan, let's start with you. obviously covered donald trump and the trump white house, now the biden white house. are these documents, in fact, going to be turned over to the january 6th committee? >> it appears that way. those on the committee are hopeful at the very least. now that trump and his allies have a few legal recourses to go, and there will be appeals, but certainly the sort of -- the firmness of, let's say, the judge's decision last night has given hope to those on the committee that i've been talking to that they will, indeed, see those documents. now, they're expanding the reach with this wave of subpoenas. you read through the names there. it is a who's who of trump world, the second tier. kayleigh mcenany, the press secretary, served in office through january 6th. steven miller, of course, the architect of many of trump's more infamous policy proposals, including the family separation, the children separated from the parents at the border, he remained in the white house late, you know, all the wa

attorney joyce vance. joyce, you and i have been talking about this case now for a few days. i want to get your sense of what could have gone on behind the scenes. what could have gone on that we did not see? i know there were cameras in the courtroom, but there were moments that were not televised. what could have happened that might have influenced this case? >> well, the devil is always in the detail in these cases. particularly with jury verdicts where trials happen under a microscope, it's awfully easy for us to dissect them afterwards. the people who know everything that happened are the people in the courtroom, the jury. and even with access through television, the jury saw every moment of evidence. they saw the looks on witness's faces. they tested their credibility. they had access to all of the evidence in ways that we frankly don't have as members of the public. so one of the things we need to remind ourselves, when a verdict like this happens, that many people are dissatisfied with, is that it appears that the jury did its best. this wasn't a fast verdict that was

she is one of the host of the podcast #sistersinlaw along with joyce vance. we and on this veteran day, four star u.s. barry r mccaffrey, veteran of vietnam, former battlefield commander of the persian gulf. former cabinet member former cabinet of the national security council as well. good evening and welcome to you. all we kimberly atkins stohr i'd like to begin with you, will put it this way. the documents had been slowed down to a crawl, perhaps mark meadows cooperation is slowing down to a crawl. where the's this leave democrats who want to see consequences? >> we the democrats as well as the committee, which does include republicans in a waiting game. i think it is something that was expected, yes. this means that the documents that were required to be produced by tomorrow will take a couple of weeks before they see the light of day. it actually, in the legal word, is a pretty quick schedule to schedule arguments and briefings within a number of weeks particularly if there is a holiday at the middle. this is fast-track, but this is a stalling on mechani

me now is kyle chaney who has been covering the aftermath of the insurrection on january 6th and joyce vance. kyle, walk us through on how we got here today and what we can expect from attorney general garland. >> so, this was a major moment for the january 6th committee. bannon was a test case for them. they knew they were going to get resistance from trump's inner circle or advisers who helped him in advance of january 6th. the fact the justice department is bringing criminal charges against someone who refused to cooperate may be a warning shot to others thinking about resisting. mark meadows. he may now think twice if i will refuse to appear or not remotely cooperate. the fact the justice department moved as quickly as they did -- three weeks is nothing in doj time. the committee may benefit from this. >> joyce, what kind of criminal charges do you think will stick right now against bannon? >> so the charges against bannon are relatively simple and clear. he's charged with two counts of two usc 192 which makes it a crime to ignore a congressional subpoena. he is charged with both failing

attorney, joyce vance. former rnc chairman and former lieutenant governor of maryland, michael steel is here and christopher goldsmith joins us. an iraq war veteran who monitors domestic extremism and national security issues. luke, i start with you. the january 6 committee members are not brining turkeys. they are pumping out subpoenas this week in a forceful display, i will read from some of these letters, but it is clear they know a lot about a lot. >> yes, i think if you put these two days of subpoenas together, you get two more pieces to the puzzle we're building of what is either a few separate conspiracies that all come together or one giant conspiracy. what they're trying to do with this last one is perhaps the most important part because it get to the actual violence that engulfs the capitol on january 6th. we now have subpoenas out for the proud boys, the oath keepers and the first amendment tra torian. we know members of those groups have been indicted, charged with violent acts at the capitol on

she cohost the podcast sisters in law, along with kimberly atkins store, and joyce vance. good to have you. before we get to what we are seeing, still going on on the florida house. how big a deal is this for joe biden? getting this through the house? >> chris, it's a significant incremental development but it's not the end of the game for joe biden in terms of passing this massive spending bill, which of course is key to his domestic agenda, it pays for so many social programs that democrats have been clambering for. as you know, we've seen it play out over the last months. democrats have been arguing over the scale of that bill and over which measures would be included and how to pay for it. there have been disputes between progressive members and more conservative, moderate members of the democratic party. passage tonight, the expected passage tonight, in the house, with democratic support, is an indication that the progressives have come together with the more moderate democrats. but it's not over. because a thin heads to the senate, where senator joe manchin, the west

joining me is joyce vance, an nbc legal analyst.bbs case even made it to the court alarming to you and what are the implications of it being taken up by the supreme court? >> it's always been clear that when the supreme court takes a case that would appear to be well-decided law, something has to be up. and that's precisely the issue with dobbs. the issues set forth in roe and casey, these are the cases that have guaranteed american people the right to access abortion for almost the last 50 years. and that law is well-decided. and dobbs, the statute in mississippi that's the source of this case, is the sort of law that routinely gets brushed aside by the courts because it violates that well-established precedent. so the fact, alex, that the court will hear this case this week is very alarming. >> well, let's look at justice clarence thomas. he is the court's longest serving member. he has for a long time been a vocal opponent of roe v. wade. last june, after the court struck down a louisiana law, he wrote that a woman's right to abo

attorney, joyce vance. she's an msnbc contributor and professor at the alabama school of law. joyce, understanding the unpredictable nature of the characters involved here, what can we expect from steve bannon's court appearance tomorrow?alicia, it's entirely unpredictable. here we typically expect that the government may arraign bannon on the charges and there may be some form of hearing over detention. it's not clear yet whether the government will seek to detain bannon. that would be a heavy lift, but they may decide to argue that given his past history, he's something of a flight risk. it seems highly doubtful to me that a judge would detain him on this misdemeanor charge. >> congressman jerry raskin says the january 6th committee may use civil contempt charges to force bannon to testify. how would that work, joyce? >> so it would work about the same way that what we've seen with bannon would work. with one big difference. because madows was in the white house at the time of these events, he has a somewhat better claim to executive privilege, but i thought the congressman s

joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney and professor at university of alabama school of law and anna is co-executive direction of fund texas choice. the group also part of one of the two cases heard today. ken, we said the hearing is not directly about roe v. wade but explain what it is about. >> reporter: good morning. in essence this is about a texas law designed to defeat judicial review because it empowers private citizens to enforce the ban and the justice department will argue this law subverts the constitutional right in a way that could be replicated across the country and could see massachusetts passing a law making handguns illegal and allowing people to sue to enforce that and chaos. what else is significant about this is that this is the second time the court considering these challenges and a majority of justices already declined to block this law on two occasions and yet here we are hearing the arguments on an accelerated and unprecedented schedule today which suggests to some experts that perhaps on

attorney joyce vance. julia, take us through what you've heard in the last two hours from the justices in this important argument? >> it's interesting, andrea, i spent the morning outside the supreme court where protesters are talking about heartbeats and viability. none of those words are being mentioned inside the supreme court today. what they're talking about is whether or not this law can stand by the very nature of how it's been written. as you know, this allows private citizens in the state of texas to sue anyone who may have a connection to a woman's abortion. and so it takes the enforcement away from the state and puts it on the court. now, it's very interesting to hear from brett kavanaugh today. as we know he's been a conservative justice, appointed by president trump, someone who we can expect to overturn roe v. wade. he started questioning the solicitor general from texas asking him if he thought this law -- what would stop this law from being copied across the country on things like gun right

joining us is nbc's ron allen in georgia and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. was expecting mr. mcmichael to take the stand. >> this is a somewhat surprising decision to put him on the stand.

attorney joyce vance and nbc washington investigative reporter scott macfarlane and pbs newshour correspondentcourse, of "washington week." trump still has time to file another appeal before these things get released. his jam is to run the clock. how long can he do that? do you think we will see these things? >> you know, i suspect we will, stephanie. the default is that national archives will release the first tranche of documents including phone logs and perhaps mark meadows' notes on friday if the court doesn't act to prevent them from doing it. trump's logical step is to prevent the corporate's order that archives release those documents to keep that from going into effect. they may decide to issue a short temporary stay while they resolve the issues. the district court order here is definitive. there's little reason to believe that the former president is entitled to an injunction, and so i'm cautiously optimistic the house select committee will have these documents in its hands in pretty short order. >> yemiche, are these physical pieces of paper that the national archives will be turnin

attorney, joyce vance for the northern district of alabama, and the new york times justice departmenteporter katie brown are. well steve bannon faces the consequences of his actions, but democrats in congress took a big step today to punish one of the republican colleagues for something he did this week. the woman leading the effort, congresswoman jackie speier's joins us next. congresswoman jackie speier' joins us next. joins us next. move to a sofi personal loan. earn $10 just for viewing your rate — and feel what it's like to get your money right. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver pro

attorney joyce vance. >> the trump lawyers will say don't be the committee has a legitimate need forthe real goal is just to embarrass the president. they will also say the president even though he is the former president does have some residual executive privilege and his concern is that if this is the way the archives are going to handle this, it could make it harder for people in the future to give president candid advice. both the archives and the house will argue that they do need these documents, that this is one the most important thing that congress has ever looked in to and that while the president yes has some executive privilege, the person best in the position to decide when documents should be withheld or handed over is the current president, that is what the supreme court said in 1977. the court also will ask both sides to address a question that it thought up on its own, which is does it even have jurisdiction to hear this case. is this even reviewable by a federal court. but you can be sure that this is not going to be the last word. whoever loses here will probably g

joyce vance was a former federal prosecutor. maya wily, her new piece, race and justice and fears still rule. i want to get into that with maya, but given this was a criminal cross-examination, i'll go to joyce first and again, a little background. people know both of you as such experienced lawyer, but joyce, you ran one of these big u.s. attorneys office. that means you're the top dog with a lot of lawyers underneath and you do these kinds of cases, murder trials the most serious. what did you think first of that cross-examination? how it was conducted and what the injury might have gotten from it? >> it was a very skillful cross-examination and something that strikes me as you watch an experienced do that is she understands that she's not there for drama. she's not there to create an a ha in the courtroom. she'll really drive home the impact of that cross-examination will be when she argues the evidence in closing arguments and she's able to tell the jury, you know, this defense about using this georgia statute that permits a

joyce vance tweets, one of the benefits of being up early in my house is getting my hands on the hugeight over. caffeinated and ready for "morning joe." >>> up next, a look at the axios 1 big thing. coming up on the aforementioned big show, secretary pete buttigieg is a guest. plus, we'll hear from one of the nearly 100 former national officials raising alarms on the threats. "morning joe" is moments away. e threats. "morning joe" is moments away. t. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some

joining us is nbc's ron allen in georgia and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. no one was expecting mr. mcmichael to take the stand. >> this is a somewhat surprising decision to put him on the stand. katy, this is not an effort to win an acquittal. this is an effort to hang the jury. they're trying to appeal to one or two jurors to convince them that they should not convict because of this reasonable notion of law enforcement training and arrest under georgia's then in place, now removed from the books, statute that permitted citizens' arrests. this is i think something that could backfire. i expect the cross-examination of mr. mcmichael will be brutal. if it were me, i would dig up every training officer he had ever had at the coast guard and have them talk about whether the picture he puts on the witness stand of someone who is fully trained is consistent with how he behaved when he was on active duty. i suspect that they may even open the door to bringing in some of the racist statements that mcmichael made on the day that he killed mr. arbery. this is a very

we're also joined by joyce vance. thank you for being with me.

and actually, more to your point, let's play what our friend joyce vance told jasmine on this point about people who have been cooperating with the committee and what exactly that means. let's listen. >> but the real story here with the january 6th committee's work is the volume of witnesses speaking to them without subpoenas. and the documents that we're getting. and we see that reflected in some of these newer subpoenas, which contain information that is clearly coming from witnesses and they're being very, very definitive. >> and, you know, maya, that's a very excellent point that these subpoenas are very, very specific and when you got someone like roger stone saying that, you know they are not being honest, he's going to get tripped up in this, isn't he? >> he's been tripped up before. he does have a criminal record.g to plead the fifth, which doesn't mean he's guilty of anything. the point is, if you don't have anything to hide, why not come forward and share the information? it is a bipartisan commission there are two republicans on it who would be happy, i am sure, to kind of reco

let's bring in joyce vance, former u.s. attorney now law professor at the university of alabama.nd health crisis that this has ushered in for women in texas and i don't know that we talk enough about the disastrous politics. working in republican politics, it's a loser in any statewide or national election to be so extreme on abortion that your against it in cases of rape or incest and what we maybe skip over is just how wildly unpopular that is. i know the supreme court is acutely aware of their falling sort of esteem in the country. is that something they're cognizant of, joyce, as they go into this? >> it's such a hard call and you'll hear people all over the map on whether the supreme court is a political actor or not. on the one hand, it's awfully hard to believe that a court that was explicitly, the conservative majority on this court was sealed by the former president who said he would put no one on the court who wouldn't vote to reverse roe. so it's hard to believe that the course is divorced from the politics of the issue. they have their ideology. many of them have rule

. >> lee anne called well, joyce vance, pete williams reporting on this breaking news this hour. thanks to all of you. thank you for watching this hour of hallie jackson reports. you know nicole is going to have more on this. "deadline: white house" starts right now. >>> hi, there, everyone it's 4:00 in new york. we begin with that breaking news, the merrick garland justice department -- out of the merrick garland justice department that will have implications into the deadly capitol insurrection. d.o.j. announcing in just the last few minutes that a federal grand jury has indicted steve bannon on two counts of contempt of congress of course because of his refusal to comply with a subpoena from the select committee. it comes on a day chock full of developments for the january 6th select committee. former white house chief of staff mark meadows is refusing, and today refused to show up in person for a deposition. that's despite being threatened by the committee with a contempt referral all of his own. joining us now, member of the house select committee investigating january 6th,

legal analyst joy vance. joyce, i want to start with you. a couple weeks ago, you and i were talking. i was guilty at the time of saying to you, why are we not seeing more charges. why is stephen bannon not held in contempt or being indicted? we have our answer. you were one saying, be patient, we're seeing this play out. now we're seeing it, he was indicted for not presenting documents and for him to be convicted doj would have to improve he was operating with proper intent. what happens if he says he was doing what his attorney told him to do? and will this indictment get the committee any closer to testimony and getting that information from bannon? >> well, second question first, no, this indictment won't force bannon to testify. what it does is it punishes him for the contempt if he's convicted. in terms of getting a conviction here. doj lays out it case in the indictment and the cases that bannon did nothing when faced with the subpoena. he was required to show up. he was required to provide documents or at least to provide a log that