joining me now barbara mcquade and joyce vance, former u.s. district of alabama and a professor at the university of alabama law school. they were both msnbc legal contributors and co-hosts of the podcast "#sisters in law." great to see you both. barbara, i'm going to start with you. will the supreme court even take up the appeal case by the trump legal team? >> i think it's very unlikely, jonathan. i think that the decision that the court of appeals made, which affirmed the trial court in this case, really got it right and had a very lengthy and well-reasoned opinion. and essentially what they said is it is the incumbent president other than joe biden who gets to decide whether there is privilege that should be asserted because executive privilege is a qualified one. and while a former president can give his input and his advice, ultimately the decision belongs to the current president. i think that's a very sound decision. it's based on supreme court precedent, and so it seems to me very unlikely that they'll take it up. as congress has requ

joyce vance, david jolly.> tonight's absolute worst is still ahead but first, some interesting questions from the jury on day two of deliberations in the kim potter trial. we'll bring you the latest, next. r trial. we'll bring you the latest, next [music: sung by craig robinson] ♪ i'm a ganiac, ganiac, check my drawers ♪ [sfx: sniffs / long exhale] ♪ and my clothes smell so much fresher than before ♪ ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ i'm a ganiac, ganiac, check my drawers ♪ ♪ it's a freshness like i've never smelled before ♪ one sniff of gain flings and you'll be a gainiac too! the only detergent with oxiboost and febreze. (burke) this is why you want farmers claim forgiveness... [echoing] claim forgiveness-ness, your home premium won't go up just because of this. (woman) wow, that's something. (burke) you get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. [echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ firefighter maggie gronewald knows how to handle dry weather... ...and dry, cracked skin. n

attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance.art with what we're seeing with this committee. we've got two big delays, and we're also going to see jeffrey clark tomorrow. i'm particularly interested in what we can expect from clark. >> so, a few things. and i think joyce would back me up on this. there's two ways to view participation. what meadows did initially, what steve bannon did, was say i'm not going to even recognize the legitimacy of these subpoenas. the smart people are saying, okay, we'll participate, and then when they get in that room they're not saying much. that way they're not held in contempt and they're also not giving any information up. who knows what kind of privilege they'll claim, they'll say their conversations are privileged or whatever their going to say, i'll leave that up to joyce to explain, but we see this time and time again in congressional investigations, that witnesses or potential witnesses say they're going to cooperate and then actually don't behind closed doors. >> what do you think of that?

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she hosts the podcast sisters-in-law along with joy wine banks, and joist mcquaid. joyce vance, what was your take away from all that we have heard from the committee today? >> the biggest take away came during liz cheney's statement. it was clear that she was trying to really speak to the justice department and explain why meadows should be prosecuted. many people had thought that steve bannon was in a category of one with his flagrant failure to comply with the subpoena. cheney makes a very compelling case. she says, you know, with meadows there were some issues where he asserted privilege, and didn't turn over documents, but that's not what this vote tonight is about. she said the vote is about areas and she defined three categories where meadows concedes that there's no privilege where he turned over documents and he simply refuses to come and testify. she makes this compelling case, where trump failed to act as rioters stormed the capitol, the efforts to change votes in states li

andrea. >> thanks so much, shaq, and joyce vance, so you watched kim potter on friday.you think that helps or hurts her? it's mostly white jury. or is it just too hard to predict how a jury will react to that? >> well, the defense strategy in a case like this, andrea, is to appeal to at least one juror. if they can convince one juror this was a tragic mistake, not some form of carelessness, then that one person who refuses to vote to convict could hang the jury causing a mistrial, and although there could be a second trial, prosecutors never like to try their cases a second time. the evidence never comes in quite as good as it does the first time. of course the goal for the defense is to win an outright acquittal here, but the difference between a murder charge and a manslaughter charge is that murder requires proof of intent, and that's not at issue here. both sides can see that potter did not act intentionally. instead, what it comes down to is whether the defense can convince the jury that it was a mistake, that she didn't fail to exercise care, that she didn't fail

joyce vance was your biggest take away from all that we heard from the committee today? >> the biggest take away came during les cheney's statement. it was clear that she was trying to really speak to the justice department and explain why meadows should be prosecuted. many people had thought that steve bannon was in a category of one with his flagrant failure to comply with the subpoena. cheney makes a very compelling so -- she said there were some issues. where he didn't turn over documents, but that is not about this vote tonight is about. she said the vote is about areas and she divined three categories where meadows can see that there is no privilege where he turned over documents. and he now simply refuses to come and testify. since she makes this compelling case that were trump failed to act,, as rioters, stormed the capitol. the efforts to change votes in states like georgia. and this plan that was apparently afoot to change doj's leadership, after doj failed to perpetuate the big lie. and agreed that there was voter fraud during the 2020 election. this is the ca

and former united states attorney, joyce, vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she hosts the podcast sisters in law along with kimberly atkins, joe wine-banks and barbara mcquade. good evening, thanks for joining us tonight. what is the level in fear and concern in the white house and for in terms of stuff. >> it is really incredible timing for the president as you mentioned he is set to deliver remarks tomorrow about the latest strategies on covid. as you mentioned, he tested negative yesterday. he tested negative today. he will be tested again on wednesday. but we will continue with his daily schedule because the cdc guidance doesn't require fully vaccinated individuals to quarantine after an exposure. and i think that underscores a point that we will hear him make tomorrow. and it's even if you're vaccinated, even if you are boosted you could get covid. but that is the best form of protection against hospitalization and deaths. if you are vaccinated the symptoms are likely to be mild. and that is a message that he is only going to drive from tomorrow. it's a

to break down this verdict, joyce vance is back with me.d we see from this judge? most legal experts don't feel she will get the full 15 years? >> that's right. that's because minnesota like the federal system and other states have what they call sentencing guidelines. the 15 years is a statutory maximum laid down the by law, and they use guidelines involving a conduct and criminal history in arriving at sentencing. the sentencing range could be seven to nine years. the prosecution will ask the judge to increase that sentence at a minimum to go to the high end of the range, and largely because she failed to take care of people around in the vehicle and on the streets when she fired her weapon and she failed to render assistance immediately after the shooting. >> potter is in custody after the jail revoked her bail? does that give you any insight into the attitude of the judge's sentencing? >> the judge was clear in the hearing. she said at one point it was important that she not treat potter any differently than she would treat others that

joyce vance, thank you as well. >>> coming up, covid cases are up in florida over 900% in the last twoans will be packed in for the orange bowl tonight. we'll be live from florida in just a moment. don't go anywhere. their car insurance. ow! i'm ok! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ only in theaters december 17th. i'm so glad we're finally on vacation. yeah, and kayak made it so easy - searching hundreds of travel sites to find us a great flight. my ears still won't pop after the flight but i don't even care.... what? kayak. search one and done. johnson & johnson is the world's largest healthcare company. building a future where cancers can be cured. strokes can be reversed. joints can be 3-d printed. and there isn't one definition of what well feels like. there are millions. we're using our world to make your world a world of well. >>> this afternoon, college football fans will gather in stadiums for two major games that will determine who goes to the national championship. in florida, the georgia bulldogs will take on michigan. and in texas it is ala

joining me now is joyce vance, a former u.s. rney and professor at the university of alabama school of law. she's also an nbc news legal analyst. joyce, good to have you with us. the defense team says they want the case dismissed because of egregious overreaching by federal agents. is this enough to have the indictment thrown out, and who has the burden of proof in such a claim here? >> it's extraordinarily unlikely that the charges will be thrown out in this case. because in order to make out a defensive entrapment, you have to show that you weren't predisposed to commit the crimes that you were caught up in. and so here the government has gone to extreme lengths in its indictment. this is a multi-count indictment. conspiracy to kidnap is one of the charges. but there are also weapons of mass destruction charges and others. and there are more than 10 over -- that means ten steps that one or more of these alleged co-conspirators took to put their conspiracy into place. and these are very serious events. for instance, pacing the g

joyce vance, former u.s. attorney of the northern district of alabama. julie, as i said before we went to break, you are i think single-handedly responsible, in some ways, for us being at this point thanks to your tenacious and dogged reporting. in terms of the verdict, what were the cases presented here? and were you surprised by the outcome, given the difficulty of making cases like this? >> well, you know, it took some -- quite a long time. it was 40 hours of deliberations. they asked for about 13 different transcripts of testimony of various people. so we knew that they were plodding through this. it was a very -- very much of a complicated charge with the six different charges and different elements to each charge. so they really had an enormous task ahead of them. so we expected, especially this morning, they had asked whether they were going to be able to or whether the judge was going to ask them to stay over the holiday weekend. so we thought i think the defense thought this was going to take a lot more time. so everyone was sort of surprised wh

and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and a professor at the university of alabama school of law. they are both msnbc legal contributors. barbara, i hear these judges, and it's hard to understand how nobody who assembled the attackers on january 6th has been charged with a crime. >> yes, jonathan. i think that is something that is disturbing to everybody. and i would add the word after your sentence, "yet." i don't know this is the end of the road to investigate something of the magnitude of what we're seeing from the january 6th committee with plots and e-mails and power points and other things like that would take many, many months to investigate. so the fact we have not seen people charged yet does not mean they won't be charged ever. i understand the frustration we haven't seen charges yet, nor have we seen any inkling of charges. but that's the way it's supposed to be done, behind closed doors. i remain hopeful those at the higher levels will be held ultimately accountabl

retired fbi executive and the author of "stop the killing, how to end the mass shooting ccrisis" and joyce vance, a frequent guest on the show. these parents have been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. if convicted they could face up to 15 years in prison and time again, we have seen these young lives lost in a school shooting, but it is extraordinarily rare to charge the parents. so is this case different in that regard, or could this be precedent setting? >> this case is unique because of the facts, alex. here we have parents who were aware of two important things at the same time. they were aware that their child was having violent fantasies that he had put them down on paper and that he had alarmed the school. so they were aware of the risk. they also knew uniquely that he had access to a firearm, apparently school officials weren't aware. the mom had taken him out shooting over the weekend. whether the gun was locked or not in their home seems largely immaterial to me because one way or another ethan managed to access it. so the parents knew he had the interest and the a

and joyce vance, former u.s.rthern district of alabama, and a professor at the university of alabama law school. they are both msnbc legal contributors and cohost of the podcast, has tag sisters in law. great to see you both. barbara one we start with you. will the supreme court even take up this appeal case by the trump legal team? >> i think it's very unlikely, jonathan. i think the decision that the court of appeals made, which confirmed the trial court in this case, really got a right very likely -- reason opinion. essentially what they said is president joe biden gets the side whether there is privilege that should be asserted. executive for the it is a qualified. one and while the former president has in his fights, ultimately that this isn't about lies in the current president. i think at the very sound decision. and based on president. it seems very unlikely that the take it up. but as congress requested, if the court does decide think it, up at least do it quickly! >> joyce, do you see anything more than

joyce vance, former united states attorney, professor at university of alabama school of law, and alsotching velshi. catch me here every saturday and sunday morning. the sunday show with jonathan capehart begins right now. >>> the biden agenda is facing critical deadlines. a complicating economy, and a new covid variant. white house official karine jean-pierre is here to talk about it all live. >>> the parents of the michigan school shooting suspect have been charged and i'll ask david hogg what it will take to stop the next school shooting. >>> and my conversation with the mayor of san francisco as her city became the first to report the omicron variant in the united states. i'm jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show.

joining me now, joyce vance, former united states attorney and university of alabama law school professor specific lawmakers like jim jordan who were revealed to have been involved. we also just learned that stop the steal organizer ali alexander told the committee that he spoke with paul gosar, potentially mo brooks, and andy biggs prior to the capitol riot. harry, when can we expect the committee to subpoena some of these people? does the fact that they're members of congress give them some legal protection in some way from being subpoenaed? >> it would often give them a kind of diplomatic protection. and it feels like a third rail, katie. but i think they're going to step on it, and soon. we now have evidence tying them to the ali alexanders of the world but also to mark meadows and even through them to donald trump. and i thought it was a dramatic game changer this week when liz cheney came out and gave us chapter and verse about them and as much as telegraphed, in fact even more so today on the shows, they're going after them. and, you know, that's going to be quite a brouhaha. talk

joining me now, former federal prosecutor joyce vance, juanita tolliver. trump is deeply unnerved by the january 6th committee. i wonder what you are now reporting given this jim jordan news? >> yeah, we reported early in the week that trump was reagitated by the amount of communications and documents that meadows had turned over to the select committee. i can only imagine that the former president is even more unnerved now because it appears that the committee is going to go after his biggest allies in congress, including jim jordan, who the committee now knows had multiple communications and contacts with trump around january 6th. >> joyce, how significant is this jordan news? >> well, it suggests a couple of things. this isn't something that the january 6th committee, which has been highly strategic, did half baked. they have to have known that jim jordan and other members of congress wouldn't voluntarily testify without a fight, so it seems clear that they have an enforcement strategy. what we don't know yet is whether that's a political appeal, this n

"washington post's" jackie alemany is here along with pete struck and joyce vance.own words. >> mr. meadows' testimony will bear on another key question before this committee, did donald trump, through action or inaction, corruptly seek to obstruct or impede congress's appreciate proceedings to count electoral votes? we know that for 187 minutes president trump refused to act. and he refused to act when his action was required, it was essential, and it was compelled by his duty, compelled by his oath of office. indeed, a be in of members of the press, a number of members of this body, a member of the president's own family all urge the president to take action because they understood that the president of the united states had a responsibility to call off the mob. hours passed despite this without any action by the president. >> joyce vance, i want to bring you in. i want to read the analysis of the specific language liz cheney is using. quote a casual observer might have missed it but what cheney was doing here was pointing to a specific criminal statute, a felony.

peter baker, joyce alene vance, doctor vin gupta, great guest and great friends all. our thanks. coming up, al franken and mike murphy, on the policy of vaccine mandates. why we're seeing growing oppositions now even from some democrats marrying the country out there. and later, i hope that you can handle the truth. because we have a special guest with us tonight. we will talk to the screenwriter who's writing style you know when you hear it. aaron stark and, to talk about his new film, being the ricardo. all of it as the 11th hour is just getting underway on this wednesday evening in view of the white house lawn. white house lawn into one efficient stroke, for a shave as quick and easy as washing your face. it's our holiday savings event on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to relieve pressure points. and its temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. save up to $500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. plus, 0% interest for 48 months. only for a limited time. want to save on your home internet? xfinity is proud to supp

joining me is joyce vance, and ellie misscald. joyce, i'm going to start with you. i'm just going to ask the question -- why the heck aren't these people in jail already? why are we not seeing person walks? i do not understand this. explain this to me like i'm a 7-year-old wile we don't already have them in jail. >> you're not a 7-year-old. i know from our conversations that you understand this as well as any lawyer. the problem here is that we're on the precipice. we're struggling to remain a rule of law country. the democrats can't become the party of lock 'em up. we saw how dangerous that was when trump supporters perpetuated that sort of role and whipped mobs into friendsies. in this country, evidence comes first and conviction sums second. we're now going through the slow, painful process of putting the evidence together. it's frustrating. it takes longer than any of us would like it to, but it's critical that the committee do its work and hopefully doj will do its work and that they meticulously collect evidence, so we understand the difference between that we

joining me now is joyce vance, an nbc news legal analyst, i'm thrilled to see you today.unted not to invoke presidential privilege for some of this, what is your biggest take away from this new move? >> there is nothing to be concerned with here. this doesn't seem to be a walk back of the president's commitment to letting the american public through this house committee have full access to documents about january 6th. as you say, what is happening here is simply the white house taking a look at some very broad requests written by the committee saying let's withhold a couple categories of documents. some based on the date they were written not relevant to january 6th. some came out of the intelligence community and law enforcement. we will defer turning those over to you, but you can talk to the intelligence community and law enforcement and get information directly from them. and some were prepared in relationship to meetings by the nfc, and they are well within the documents that you expect to be turned over. she is caught up in these broad requests that the house wrote.

for more on this let's bring in joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney in alabama. guns, that either he was trolling the texas law or he thought that was a good way. >> what gavin newsom is doing is pointing out that a vigilante system is a broken system. it's in place to protect our rights. that's specifically why this exists, so people don't have to take that into it. not only will we condon vigilante justice. sure, women have a right to get an abortion in our country but you can go ahead and sue people around them who aid and abet them which will deter them from getting abortions which will make it impossible for them to get the support that they need. that is tantamount to have a broken system where rights aren't enforced, where due process is violated. the problem is the supreme court in its ruling in the texas cause has said, have at it, folks. open season. >> and maybe this doesn't worry people all that much because generally speaking for most americans, there are some key exceptions, but for most americans they don't see our system of enforcement of law as be

she host the podcast sisters in law with kimberly, joyce vance, and we -- good to have all of you. here we are hearing so many medical experts talk about the u.s. entering a harrowing phase of the pandemic. and there is still strong persistence to building precautions on the right. resistance to the wall -- who are they preparing for a really difficult period heading ahead? >> i think it's important to know that we've really seen the white house convince their response to reflect the frustration of american people in that regard. that was taken into account medical consideration that we haven't seen necessarily taken in the pass and move away from the idea of vaccine mandates although we did hear dr. fauci entertain the idea of vaccine mandates this week. i think what underscores this is the cons we heard from cdc director defending the decision to recommend the time that people should isolate from when they tested positive for covid from ten days to five days. which you mentioned earlier, which is the, while it is about the transmission window we. the 1 to 2 days for covid symptom

attorney joyce vance. thank you all for being here on a monumental day. pete, i want to start with you you have been tracking this case quite closely and you have been listening to the justices throughout the term bhap are your key take aways from what we heard today? >> the first thing to remember is that this is the first tyke they have to talk to each other about the case and i think today is a demonstration of them really talking to each other, not to the lawyers. if the court does strike down roe it will look like a political institution and it did so only after donald trump put new appointees on the court. the stake of the decision, so that is the first thing. secondly, it seems clear after this argument that the mississippi law is going to survive. it would limit abortion after just 15 weeks. the conservatives seem to be, some of the court, seems to be going all of the way to over turn row, but the others, perhaps justice roberts and justice amy comey-barrett. the new standard should be that if you ban abortions after 15 weeks, over 90% get abortio

in the meantime we have msnbc legal analyst joyce vance here to join us.and thank you so much for being here this evening. can you tell us what are the time constraints that were in place for these parents to actually turn themselves in when this indictment happened earlier this afternoon? >> so these parents were supposed to appear in court on friday to be arraigned on the involuntary manslaughter charges that have been brought against them. they were in fugitive status. they failed to show up. they had agreed with their attorney they would surrender after they were charged, and of course they didn't. >> and now that they are in custody, could they possibly be facing any other charges? >> i suspect we'll learn that at the press conference or in the next day or two. they could be charged, for instance, with something related to being a fugitive. it will depend upon the facts surrounding their disappearance but also facts like these can be used to enhance a sentence following a conviction. >> and joyce, this has been a very interesting situation here becaus

joyce vance, kathy park, thanks so both of you. >>> coming up, joe biden and vladimir putin set to speakd tensions between russia and ukraine. we've got the latest on that highly anticipated call next. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. >>> pack now breaking economic news. weekly jobless claims just hit their lowest level in more than 50 years at 198,000. that's less than what a lot of folks were expecting. the u.s. recovery has come a long way since january, when those claims were nearly five times as high as they are now. we'll bring you more on this as we get it. >>> later today, president biden will make another effort to ease the rising tensions between russia and ukraine, when he talks with russian president vladimir putin. here's why the stakes are so high. check out the satellite images that show tens of thousands of russian troops mass a massed along the border with ukraine. president biden said ear

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor and hosts the podcast, "sisters in law" along kimberley atkins, jill winebanks and barbara mcquade. good to see all of you. we again seem to be at the receiving end of confusing messaging from the cdc and biden administration as they try to combat this omicron variant. what do you think is going on here? could we be doing better? >> yeah, we could be doing better. there is a continued amount of confusion because the science or data coming in is causing there to be changes in how we're managing people who are positive. the messaging is very confusing. they need to get their act together. i understand the science. it is basically what dr. fauci said which is the point you get infected yourself and would be positive you would be able to carry that infection a few days before and after. once you've been positive and you've waited five days, you are now okay to go out and about without getting another test as long as you continue to wear face masks especially indoors. that is the sum and substance. >> so what you are saying is

attorney joyce vance who is also an msnbc legal analyst. jake, you've broken this story. the text messages were from you to mark meadows. tell us, did meadows ever respond? >> i hope to put this to bed after this. i was doing from actually this seat, katy, i was sitting in the seat in this room i'm currently in, and we were having people bang at our doors and, you know, we felt scared. i'm not afraid to admit it. i felt frightened for my safety, my colleague john bresnan's safety, the press corps i've been a member of 12 or 13 years. i've known mark meadows a long time. he was a main character in a book i wrote three or four years ago, and it was -- i felt like it was my duty, it was my responsibility to try to communicate the status of the situation as much as i can to somebody who had the ability to possibly, although he did not, to possibly act on it. so all that being said, i sent him a message, and that message is now out. i told him what i was experiencing and hoping he can do something about it, which he did not do. i will say this, katy, i'm sure there were a lot

. >> joyce vance, i want to ask you about all the places. you were leading to this. the idea that the january committee has some sense of what they're going to get when they invite somebody to give them evidence. they kind of know where they're going with this. what's the likelihood of something reaching donald trump, about there being something that might even look like a criminal referral involving the former president? >> i suppose that's the ultimate question that we're all trying to figure out the answer to. you know, on the one hand this is awfully simple. we all saw the events of january 6th happen in front of us. we watched trump from really before the election begin to suggest he wouldn't abide by the results if he lost. we watched the big lie as it was perpetuated. it seems relatively clear that there's at least such evidence for the justice department to have opened an investigation in several areas where criminality may have occurred. on the other hand, though, the reality of that has been very elusive. the attorney general has managed to stay silent on t

with the university of -- she host the podcast, sisters in, law along with kimberly atkins, and joyce vance, -- good evening to all of you. peter baker, let's start with you. rough week in general for the white house, particularly with the collapse of build back better unexpectedly on the news last sunday, but, the omicron virus in the testing requirements that it calls for our something the white house has been behind the curb on all week. >> yeah, look, the one thing that president biden promised as a candidate last year for office, he would tackle covid, and help us get through this pandemic. now, through fault of his own, or no fault of his own, were not there. a year later, we seem to be back -- at least when it comes to. infections not in terms of the same level of severity, as with the doctors are telling us about omicron, but for a lot of americans, if feels like we have yet to move past this to your crisis that we've been living. and there's a lot of exhaustion. a lot of it has been taken on the president. you see that in his approval rating. i think people want the president to ge

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joyce vance, you, too.>>> ghislaine maxwell found guilty on five of the six charges. >>> when we come back, back to the news as it was before this news broke. remembering huge american icon, legendary football coach, and broadcaster, john madden. plus, one of the big fears we're hearing from medical experts as covid says soar is that hospitals will be too full to help treat other non-covid related patients and injuries. we have a heartbreaking story from iowa that underscores that growing concern later in the program. deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today. after a quicbrk eak. don't go anywhere today. favorits is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm so glad we're finally on vacation. yeah, and kayak made it so easy - searching hundreds of travel sites to find us a great flight. my ears s

august, our next guest cole wrote an article with former federal prosecutor barbara mcquade and joyce vance, laying out a roadmap for the justice department to follow in investigating donald trump. professor laurence tribe co-wrote the article, quote, if we were to maintain our democracy and respect the rule of the, law efforts to overturn a fair election simply cannot be tolerated. one possible charges conspiracy. it is a federal crime for individuals to agree to defraud the united states by interfering with governmental functions. in the financial times today, he writes that, history tells us that democracies the field to protect themselves with the full force of the law are flirting with extension. the article quotes washington's governor saying that, the american psyche has not recognize that we are one vice president away from a coup. leading off our discussion tonight is laurence tribe, university professor of harvard law school. he has won 35 cases in the united states supreme court. professor, thank you very much for joining us tonight. i have been wondering this week what the revel

joining me now, capitol hill correspondent, league ann caldwell, and joyce vance, a msnbc legal analystormer attorney in alabama. joyce, war the next steps? how is this showdown going to play out between a member of congress and his colleagues that he has to see every single day. >> that's a great question, steph. and the committee has not said yet what it's going to do. but it says it has options and it's going to keep those options open. the committee thinks that representative perry is instrumental into their investigation. he was a person who worked with the administration to try to implement jeffrey clark, a doj official, to replace the acting attorney general, so that they could try to overturn these election results, or at least put out a statement saying that the results were, in fact, wrong. of course, those are all false statements. but, you know, we're waiting to see. this committee has some options. they can do like they did with mark meadows and steve bannon and refer criminal contempt charges to the department of justice. but because they're a member of congress, they perh

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and mccaskill. in the letters between the committee chair and meadow's attorney, one thing is very clear and very confusing. meadows turned over a lot of stuff. he's disclosed a lot of information in his book. upon what basis could one suddenly decide the information is privileged when you've begun cooperating and turns things over. >> it's such a good question, joy because meadows turns over documents including the power point we've been talking about explicitly saying they're not privileged. >> i'm going to interrupt you. i'm so sorry, joyce. i'm going to interrupt you because bennie thompson is starting. let's listen in. >> to declare the committee in recess at any time. i recognize myself for an opening statement. before i start. my statement let me on behalf of the committee offer condolences in kentucky and surrounding states for the devastation they received during the tornados. our hearts and prayers go out to those impacted. i expect many will go on the record. we'll hear from many more inf

let me see if we have msnbc legal analyst joyce vance ready for us. this opinion. your reaction? >> nicolle, it means a lot in this case. you will recall that the national archives was set to turn over documents, and trump filed this action to prevent that automatic release of documents. it will impact this case and those documents. but because the court is write being executive privilege, much more generally, this could also apply to cases like mark meadows, who you were talking about earlier today. he's attempting to use executive privilege to avoid testimony. this same analysis would apply to him, perhaps even more strongly, than to the former president. >> joyce, when you look at what the committee already has its hands on, there has been so much document production, we really spend a disproportionate amount of time on the two folks so far who have -- well, one who has been criminally charged, steve bannon, the other, mark meadows, who before refusing to show up for his depo turned over thousands of documents which liz cheney a up can have hours a

with us are our nbc legal analysts joyce vance, danny se cevalis. the first thing the defense is trying to establish her credentials. >> and the defense is getting in evidence that this person was a lifer, she always wanted to be in law enforcement, she had a calling. she wasn't somebody who took a government job to hang out and collect a pension. you can see from the testimony and the jury is seeing it, all she ever wanted to be from an early age was a police officer. and that's very effective. now we're moving into the testimony about the taser. and they're going to show that recently they switched over tasers and there were possibilities that she would be unfamiliar with the new model and the new description. you see the picture right there. the taser versus block. that's a lot of yellow, and you're right. but if the taser, the model had changed in recent history, then that might go towards some distance, at least, to showing that there was a reasonable mistake. and after all, the glock is plastic, might have felt similar in the hand. you're goin

joining me now, joyce vance, former u.s. university of alabama school of law, jennifer rubin "washington post" opinion writer, both joyce and jennifer are msnbc contributors, and eli stokols los angeles times white house reporter. phillip waldron claims to have spoken with mark meadows about it eight to ten times. he also says he briefed several members of congress on the eve of january 6th. what do we know about waldron, and while i get that meadows' posture is listen i just collect information and disseminate it accordingly, what does it say that he met with this guy upwards of ten times. >> this is what is so extraordinary is not only he but members and congress and perhaps, although we don't know definitively, senator ron johnson or the staff of senator ron johnson. so it is remarkable that all of these republicans were meeting with someone who had this crack pot idea that he was going to overthrow the election results. now, we don't know whether this is a credible person. we don't know whether he, in fact, meant eight to

luke broadwater, and joyce vance, former u.s.orney and professor at the university of alabama school of law. ali you have to start on this vote because two, only two republicans voted for it. we all heard those text messages. those are republican members of congress pleading with meadows for help. they were inside the capitol as it was being attacked, yet they didn't vote for it. what am i missing? >> and steph, congresswoman liz cheney last night during this vote read out more text messages, she said, from republican lawmakers who are still in this house body. these are some of the messages, and you mentioned it, they sound desperate. listen to what they said. >> mark, one member said. he needs to stop this now. in all caps, tell them to go home. potus has to come out firmly and tell the protesters to dissipate. someone is going to get killed. >> steph, we've heard the trickle of these text messages that meadows turned over to the committee over the course of the last two days. they included up until -- they included the first b

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as federal prosecutor, among the hosts of the podcast sisters-in-law along with kimberly atkins, and dr. vin gupta, critical care pulmonologist in seattle. he is also on faculty at the university of washington institute for health metrics and evaluation. well, good evening and welcome to you all, and joyce, i'd like to begin with you in reading you the statement from the committee about meadows. mr. meadows' flawed lawsuit won't succeed at slowing down the select committee's investigation. maybe they can hear that ticking clock as well. stopping us from getting the information we're seeking. the select committee meets next week to advance a report repding that the house cite mr. meadows for contempt of congress and referreder refer him to the department of justice. joyce, number one, does the suit, as you read it, have any merit, and number two, can one make a privilege argument if the crime in chief, if what they're investigating, oh, by the way, happened to be the attempted overturning of a presidential election? >> well, you know, first things first

he could face a dangerous prospect at doj. >> joyce vance, thank you very much.kraine and is urging moscow to pull back its troops from the ukrainian border. secretary of state antony blinken wrapped up a meeting with lavrov expressing concern the large-scale troop buildup on ukraine's border and other pressure tactics resembled the kremlin strategy before it invaded ukraine in 2014 and seized the crimean peninsula. andrea mitchell is traveling with the secretary of state and joins us live on the phone from stockholm. andrea, this is looking very familiar, and what else can you tem us about the message the united states is hoping to send to the russians? >> they're really talking past each other. tony blinken first laid this out at nato. yesterday he said there were tens of thousands of combat troops, on the ukraine border that is comparable to what we saw last spring and most urgently comparable to what we saw just before the 2014 invasion. and said there would be serious consequences coming out of the nato meeting, all 30 that they would take national sanctions

and joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney.rtunity to be with you on this very important day. neal, let me talk first about what we're going to be seeing and actually hearing here on msnbc this morning. when you've gone in front of the supreme court, what are the things you're looking for, early on? >> well, the first thing i try to remember is not be tremendously nervous when i'm arguing in front of the supreme court. the second is to really listen to the justice's questions. as an advocate, you come in with things you want to say, the argument is not about you. it's always about them. and it's about a magic number, five. you've got to count to five, how do you get a majority of the supreme court to agree with your position. you might want a bigger position and win more, but if you know you can't do that, you narrow your position, trim it down to five. so here, the question is, who are the justices who might be in play, who might say, we're on the fence about the mississippi law. and as cecile richards just said, this is a cou

joyce vance is here at the table.o at the table, john heilemann, nbc news and nbc national affairs analyst as well as the host of the hell and high podcast. and -- >> take me through where this ended today. >> where this ended is an interesting question. it is just the right one to start with. the question is, if roe and casey don't survive, what comes next? it seems unlikely with the 6-3 conservative majority that roe and casey will survive as they currently exist. what do you do? do you in the words of justice brett kavanaugh return the decision to the states? he says the court shouldn't be picking sides but really no matter what court does here it will pick a side. if that's to leave the question of abortion to the states that's picking the side that says if the legislature decides a women shunt have the right to determine their own future in terms of pregnant that a state legislature can take it away from them. of course we saw the map that you put up. it's not like there is an even sprinkling across the country.

joyce vance, former united states attorney, professor at university of alabama school of law, and also the cohost of the sisters in law podcast. thanks for watching velshi. catch me here every saturday and sunday morning. the sunday show with jonathan capehart begins right now. >>> the biden agenda is facing critical deadlines. a complicating economy, and a new covid variant. white house official karine jean-pierre is here to talk about it all live. >>> the parents of the michigan school shooting suspect have been charged and i'll ask david hogg what it will take to stop the next school shooting. >>> and my conversation with the mayor of san francisco as her city became the first to report the omicron variant in the united states. i'm jonathan capehart. this is the sunday show. >> this sunday, amid the holiday season, the omicron variant is top of mind. it's now been detected in at least 15 states, and the biden administration is moving quickly to try to curb the spread here at home and abroad. starting tomorrow, international travelers coming into the united states must test negative