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back with joyce vance.ht out of the box, i understood it to be illegal to threaten a prosecutor. how is it not already a crime to simply threaten not one, but two, but three prosecutors? >> you know, joy, one of the hard realities of being a prosecutor is that you get awfully used to and in some ways almost immune to being threatened because it comes with the territory. the real problem here is the context. we know that this is someone who is profoundly uncommitted to the rule of law, who is very slippery when it comes to dealings, and who in the past has encouraged his supporters in events that resulted in violence. so i think fani willis did the smart thing here. she invoked the fbi. and i would expect her to not tolerate too much more here. if she reaches the point, and i'm singling her out because i think the threats in some way are directed towards her in many ways. but if sees this going to something that's very clearly obstruction of justice, i wouldn't expect to see her indict a premature case. at t

joyce vance, trump lawyers saying that they are going to appeal this eight-page ruling by the judge. do you see holds in this ruling that can be appealed? >> you know, trump's game, when he appeals a case is usually less about having strong, substantive arguments that he expects will win on appeal. a lot more about playing for time. he really is the master of misusing the legal system to delay proceedings to the point where they no longer matter. or whether they simply bypass the lawsuit itself. he has been really successful with a lot of civil lawsuits, sidelining them well issues are peeled up and down in the courts. this looks like it will be another one of those efforts. it is a strong ruling, the court finding some fault with, it perhaps. the beauty of this opinion, essentially, it comes down to one fact. the former president is not above the law. like anyone else, he has to submit to a civil deposition. when a case is appropriate, when he has barely named in that case... that principle that trump is not above the law, seems to be the big take away from today in court. >> well,

attorney for northern district of alabama and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance.o us about the significance of the judge's ruling, a colorful ruling, i might add, and what the next steps might look like. >> well, christmas came a little early for new york attorney general tish james yesterday. this is the order she was hoping to get from this court that gives her access not just to depositions of the president, donald jr. and ivanka, but also of documents which they are required to turn over in 14 days. and although they will be able to assert their fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination at depositions if they choose to avoid answering questions, there's a much more limited ability to use the fifth amendment to block turnover of documents. so that may well be the first fight that happens here. we are off to the appellate courts almost immediately where they will try to challenge the ability to depose them and receive their documents but the reality is it looks like the end of the line for the former president. he's tried to set himself up, as you point

tom gold steen and who hosts of the sisters-in law podcast, kim ber live atkins and legal analyst joyce vanceen judge jackson starts making the rounds, as she will. she was overwhelmingly in this day and age confirmed for the court of appeals. three republicans. that said, one of those three may be peeling off because lindsey graham has been publicly critical of her. >> he said it was a victory of the radical left. the other two said they're keeping their options open. she'll meet with the leaders of the senate and chairman and ranking member of the judiciary. one thing that will be a little easier, one of the most time consuming things they have is to fill out that big questionnaire, listing every speed and every major court decision. she just did this eight months ago so it's not going to take too long to update it. >> that and your finances and all this other stuff. it can be incredibly complex. let's talk about her record. she's already being pilloried as too progressive, radical left. that is not -- that doesn't comport with her being described as not only a clerk from steve breyer but s

joyce vance. thank you so much.in this hour, the january 6th is broadening its investigation, looking into domestic violent extremist groups and their movements on the day of and the run up to the capitol hill insurrection. this comes amid the backdrop of a new terrorism warning sign from the biden administration. from the biden administration. riders! let your queries be known. yeah, hi. instead of letting passengers wrap their arms around us, could we put little handles on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about we all get quotes to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? approved. cool! hey, if bryan's not gonna be snake, can i be snake? -all: no. what are you recommending for muscle pain? based on clinical data, i recommend salonpas. agreed... my patients like these patches because they work for up to 12 hours, even on moderate pain. salonpas. it's good medicine woman: i have moderate to severe pla

attorney joyce vance and former civil prosecutor maya wiley. joyce, what are they asking jeffrey clark today? >> well, i suspect they want a full accounting for what went on at the justice department in final days of the trump administration, particularly now that we've learned that the former attorney general bill barr stepped down just as these proposed orders that would have had d ofrmtsd or doj or dhs seizing voting machines, just as those were going into circulation. so a wide range of questions for clark who is, of course, a lawyer, who appreciates the fact that he can't just exert a blanket privilege and must show up and answer questions individually, the big outstanding question is whether this was a cooperative session and he's decided to share the truth with investigators or whether this amounted to a lot of i don't remember and i'm taking the fifth amendment. >> maya, the panel alleges clark stoked fear and election misinformation. if he doesn't talk -- that is a possibility -- what happens then? >> of course, the committee has to tak

joyce vance is a former u.s. david fahrenthold investigate reporter for the new york times. who has covered trump's financial extensively in the both join me now. david, let me start with you, i cannot remember ever encountering a letter such as this in any context really. i saw today and i thought it was a joke or maybe someone had made a mock up as a cheeky thing, but it's real. what is this letter, what does it say? >> okay, so the statements of financial conditions. these are the things that trump basically, they were a brag sheet. the accountants compiled and they wanted to do business with, they wanted to feel at the nec hotel, a potential lender, here are some numbers to show. the very important things to help them get a lot of business. and this article is basically saying you cannot rely on the last nine years. they've gone back and said look, it's not viable. and the a. g. seemed to peel away an important layer, in the financial architecture of the trump organization. >> -- based on what the a. g. has s

so, let's bring in joyce vance former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, and now on nbc msnbc news legal analyst. joyce, big day today. pending an appeal today which we all know is inevitable, because that's kind of their game right, that's how they do this, trump and john junior and ivanka will be questioned under oath within the next three weeks. so set the scene for us, and describe what you think the best those depositions will look like. >> well they've got three weeks to be deposed, two weeks to turn over documents, and as you correctly pointed out, there will inevitably be an appeal here. the question is, what sort of tolerance the new york courts of appeals will have and whether the district of appeals will send this back quit it pretty quickly. for the depositions. we all know what happened in the deposition of donald trump. he will be asked questions, he will be confronted with half truths and mistruths, and he will have to assert his fifth amendment privilege to avoid incriminating himself over, and

joining me now is the aforementioned lawyer and joyce vance, former u.s. eternity for the new york district of alabama. george, i'll start with you. at one level, at least, the honesty and clarity to try to want to overturn the election is useful, awesome. >> u.s., would he did over the weekend was kind of a trifecta going to his intent -- -- by offering pardons or suggestions -- to pardon the people who committed violent acts on january six, he's demonstrating again that he proved the actions were consistent with the reports that he was watching with glee and it adds to the case that he was actually intending to form and violence that they. his statements -- that he wouldn't -- know he tried to fix the election and that he was trying to get pence to overturn the election go to the air about when he was trying to do which goes to the corrupt way that he was acting with the prep motive to try to interfere with the congressional proceeding. and the other thing that he did was to show that this is his modus operandi. he intends -- he is willing to use the thr

. >> [laughs] for more on, this david corn is back with us, and we're joined now by joyce vance, and it's great to have both of you with us. you wrote about this new trump scandal, which you point out, is not entirely new controversy. but one other trump's age where the scandal, there always seems to be an earlier tweet or video clip of him accusing his opponents of the very same thing he is later accused of. that's true in this case as well. and just to prove our point here, trump in 2016 criticizing hillary clinton, and of course, her emails. watch. >> people have nothing to hide, they don't bleach their emails, or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law. >> and here's the thing, david, republicans who gleefully attacked her for the way she handled government records are amazingly and remarkably quite about trump's behavior this we. is it too much to expect anything other than hypocrisy from the republican party, when it comes to preserving national classified documents and material? >> yes, good question. i mean, you mentioned nixon.

jill wine-banks, joyce vance, thank you for coming to "the sunday show." >>> imagine having an iphoned posting every moment of your life to social media, even being sold into slavery. it is a unique way to view history. and we'll talk about it next. ww history. history. and we'll talk about it next yet he stands strong, dry, keeping the leaks only to his eyes. depend. the only thing stronger than us, we gotta tell people that liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need, and we gotta do it fast. [limu emu squawks] woo! new personal record, limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ before you go there, or there... start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free covid-19 booster today. what happens when we welcome change? wherever you go. we can transform our workforce overnight out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps c

joyce vance, caroline ng, phil brock, another fascinating night. thanks to all of you. coming up, more warnings from the white house today on russia. we're going to talk about former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, william taylor, about vladimir putin's immediate goal, and why he thinks it's important to support ukraine over the long term. later, why a friend, billy crystal, is telling democrats to please, please, please listen to san francisco. the message of voters we delivered by ousting school board members. the 11th hour just getting underway, on wednesday night. 11th hour just getting underway, on wednesday night the russians, in the midst of all this, this is over the course of weeks and even recent, days have put additional forces on the border. i want to be very clear, our concern has not diminished in iota. >> u.s. officials warn the threat of military -- russian military aggression has not passed. calling out russian for lying about the troop pullback. while the west anxiously waits and watches for the kremlin's next variable viable move, the washington post colu

. >> joyce vance, thank you very much.litical ramifications given what happens with gun laws in our country. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us online and on twitter and chuck todd and "mp daily" start right now. >>> if it's wednesday after years of resistance, congressional leaders in both parties are backing an effort to ban members from trading stocks. but bullish isn't the word most voters might use when it comes to washington's ability to address what's at the heart of this issue, corruption and income inequality. plus the tied continues to turn against covid restrictions as more blue state governors are breaking with white house recommendations. what it makes for the pandemic and politics up ahead. and as

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor, she hosts the podcast sisters in law. so much to get to. frank, i don't know, maybe it is incomprehensible that classified documents are just wet, randomly put into 15 boxes trump took with him? or maybe not randomly. we do not know. and that the national archives is actually finding out about this a year after he left office? how big a deal do you think this is? >> yes, it is important to put this into proper perspective. i see a lot of folks out there particularly on social media getting really excited about the possibility of criminal charges. let's get this proper context, here. first of all, if indeed it is true that there is classified information in some of those boxes, that is good news for prosecutors, and for the possibility of a criminal referral, and this referral to the doj actually taking some criminal shape. because previous to that, the presidential records management act simply didn't have teeth and it. it was not strictly enforceable. so the classified aspect of this raises the specter of a potential cr

. >> joyce vance, thank you very much. good to have you here on a very complicated story, one with a lot of political ramifications given what happens with gun laws in our country. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us online and on twitter and chuck todd and "mp daily" start right now. >>> if it's wednesday after years of resistance, congressional leaders in both parties are backing an effort to ban members from trading stocks. but bullish isn't the word most voters might use when it comes to washington's ability to address what's at the heart of this issue, corruption and income inequality. plus the tied continues to turn against covid restrictions as more blue state governors are breaking with white house recommendations. what it makes for the pandemic and politics up ahead. and as ukrainian groups gear up for military exercises vice president harris makes plans to travel to europe next week. will it be war, escalation or something in between? >> hello it. welcome to "meet the press daily

now university of alabama law professor, joyce vance joins us.thought i was the only one that stayed up at night thinking about palin as this canary in the coal mine for everything that came afterward. i'm very reassured by reading your book that i was not the only one having these thoughts. i want to deal first with the breaking news about the lawsuit against the times. do you have a sense on how that came to be? >> so, the jury weighed the evidence and i was in the courtroom listening to e-mails that were entered into evidence and what the jurors ultimately weighed and decided against was this notion that the times was out to smear her. that they ignored evidence that pointed to the probably falsity of the claim in this editorial. the jury didn't apparently buy it and neither did the judge. both of whom came down against sarah palin. now, of course she is very likely to appeal the legal experts have told me an appeal will be harder because she has lost twice. once with the judge and once with the jury and appeals courts tend to be very differen

attorney joyce vance and "the washington post" political reporter felicia somez. joyce, your view on the above and the president again exercising the privilege that is only the president to decide to free up this evidence? >> joe biden's white house cast a little shade at the former president when they announceed they were going to release these logs. they didn't just say joe biden had found there was no executive privilege. they also made the point that under current standards, because this white house, as has many previous white houses, makes visitor logs publicly available. they pointed out that under current standards, all this stuff trump is kplining about would have been reare leased. given the biden administration and the january 6th committee prior win in the supreme court, which said, yes, records from january 6th should be turned over to the committee. they are important. it's extremely unlikely trump has any success here. this is a about trying to delay. is and that's really the whole strategy. that's the last leg the trump camp is on. can we delay and h

joining me now, congresswoman carol maloney of new york and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney.t by -- take us back for a moment and play donald trump talking about the abuse of classified materials. >> hillary clinton should be in jail for what she did to our national security. she sent vast amounts of classified information including information classified as top secret. top secret. okay? if that were a republican that did what she did with the emails, they would have been in jail 12 months ago. in my administration i'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. no one will be above the law. >> congresswoman, talk about what happens now. it's confirmed by the national archives. what happens? >> we're continuing our investigation. we got the information today from the national archives and confirmed everything we suspected, he removed classified documents, torn up classified documents, torn up records and did not turnover overall of the records. we're preceding with the investigation. the archives is going to do an inventory of what is contai

. >>> i want to bring in now joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. about this. joyce, this is great to see you. so, react for me first. you got on the same day, obviously, the censuring of liz cheney and adam kinzinger, also the former vice president rebuking his former boss, the former president donald trump, saying, the president is wrong, the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone. quite a split-screen moment, joyce. >> it is a split-screen moment, yasmin. i wish we had seen a stronger pronouncement from the former vice president, though. he seems to have one foot in. he might just as well jump in off the deep end and go ahead and voluntarily testify and tell the truth. that's something that he hasn't at least publicly acknowledged that he is willing to do up until now. and where we are with both the investigation that's going on on capitol hill and perhaps with a criminal investigation in the justice department is we seem to be right at the precipice of what the former president actually said, acknowledged and did

joining me to bring it all down, joyce vance and "washington post" congressional correspondent and co-anchorump really have expose now that his motion to dismiss has been denied? >> he really does have exposure. he can appeal the immunity question, but ultimately it's very likely he'll get sent back to face at least discovery, and in a civil lawsuit unlike a criminal one, discovery can be rigorous. we know trump doesn't want to be deposed by le teesh ya james in the new york proceedings this. is a similar prospect for him down here. it's particularly damaging to him because the judge dismissed some of the other defendants, congressmen and rudy giuliani saying what they did was they engaged in free speech. the difference for the former president is he encouraged people to fight and then he pointed them toward the capitol and sent them on their way to the capitol. the judge says that's no longer protected speech and something that can be the subject of this civil lawsuit. >> jacqueline, trump and his supporters vehemently attacked hilary clinton for handling classified information over private

i want to bring in joyce vance and john flannery and journalist josh marshal. john, your reaction to this development? >> i think it's a big development, you know? because what we do is we have a man making such admissions. and you really closed the case on him when you got him basically to say, this is how we were going to do it. you said, that's a coup, and it was because of two particular reasons. one is they talk about law that is not law, and they talk about facts that are not facts, meaning that there are states, including the battleground states, that have any objection at all to the electors that were chosen. and what they hope to do was to, i think, cause the disturbance, physical and violent disturbance, but at the same time to have a series of votes on supposed states that had reservations and make each of those a four-hour extravaganza so there would be 24 hours. i think they hope by exhaustion they could send it back to the states that would certify or decertify. they bring it back and then they would steal the election. sorry to go on so long, but

joyce vance, carol leonnig, philip brock are on another fascinating night. thank you to all of you. coming up, more warnings from the right white house today on russia. we're going to talk to former ambassador to ukraine william taylor, about vladimir putin's immediate goal. and why he thinks it's important to support ukraine over the long term. and later, why our friend is telling democrats to please please please listen to san francisco. the message of voters there just delivered there by ousting school board members. the 11th hour. just getting out underway on a wednesday night. on a wednesday night. like what you see abe? yes! 2b's covered with zero overdraft fees when he overdraws his account by fifty bucks or less. and 2c, well, she's not going to let a lost card get her stressed. am i right? that's right. that's because these neighbors all have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. [sound of helicopter blades] ugh... they found me. ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs yo

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. she hosts the podcast sisters in law. but to see all of you. carol, i would like you to have both you and phil to break down the thinking in trump world with so much going on. tell us more about this memo suggesting the use of an intelligence community to overturn the election, and the efforts to get it to trump. >> well kudos to my colleagues at the washington post, you've been digging into this. a group of conspiracy theorists and part of what i call, chris, and another member of source of my colleagues said this as well, the amateur hour that was trying, and succeeding, and getting inside trump's white house to try to convince him to use the amazing powerful tools that he had in the oval office to block biden from becoming president. and to stop the peaceful transfer of power. in this case, it was drafting this idea of how three men, all of which had questionable backgrounds, have these three men be the leaders of the effort to get the nsa collecting signals intelligence, tests, me

attorney and nbc news legal analyst joyce vance. tom, how big a deal, howen usual is this letter? >> well, it's quite unusual. experts that we've spoken with, people that have worked used to head up sec-type of investigations, regulators, my colleague gretchen morganson talking with them yesterday. they said this is highly unusual, that the trump organization was a public company, a google, a gm, picking random companies out of the air, and somebody filed this, you'd be looking at stocks that were down 50%, 60%, 80% this morning. so it's significant in that it says, look, the information that -- and this pertains directly to the former president's financial health and picture -- the information that's been represented over the last ten years effectively, you can't rely upon that information. >> let me stop you for a second because i think a question a lot of people have had that has been raised repeatedly about the trump organization and donald trump himself is whether or not his net worth, the value of his company was real. is that what this alies to? >> right. these are the stat

down, nbc news justice correspondent pete williams, nbc capitol hill correspondent, garrett haake, joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney, and jeremy peters, "new york times" national politics reporter and author of the brand-new book "insurgency: how republicans lost their party and got everything they ever wanted." so jeremy, congrats on the book. it's not hard -- maybe it is hard, hard not to draw comparisons to the 2016 campaign when, you know, then candidate trump constantly talked about hillary clinton, her classified information that was all out there. but, i mean, honestly, you've been deep in this with this book. do his supporters care? do the american people care that this is happening? >> right. his supporters frankly don't care. that's because they are in an information ecosystem where this news is not penetrating. january 6th commission, subpoenas, all that, even mitch mcconnell's statement the other day that president trump had overstepped and that the rnc was wrong to censure these two anti-trump congressmen, that didn't penpenetrate. this is what i detail in the book is just how

attorney, maya wily and joyce vance. these folks have been talked about since the seat became open. to bringing not just intellect to the court, but an intellect with a common sense experience about what the lives of so many people are that these decisions touch. it also shows that the president has made a decision to zero in on candidates who are currently sitting on a court. right. two of them on federal courts and one, california supreme court. that doesn't mean the other candidates are not highly qualified and able to do it, but it may signal he believes that is the best route for a nominee, an historic nominee. when we have heard attacks against these candidates even before their formally nominated. in general. just attacks against them. because he said he wanted to make sure he had a supreme court that looked like the country and reflected the experiences of her people. all i can say is i am tremendously excited. >> and the white house i think still believes that all three of these women should garner bipartisan support. i don't want to ask you to do any horse racing or handic

and nbc legal analyst, joyce vance is here. mike, take us through what you and your colleagues are reporting today. >> i think the biggest takeaway and the reason we thought this story was so important is that it draws trump into these efforts in a new and more direct way. we've known for the past year about a range of different efforts that were undertaken by trump and his allies and republicans across the country to overturn the election. we know that in many of those instances, trump was you know, using his own sort of cajoling and calling and pushing and pressuring people. but what we think sets this apart is the consideration, the exploration of using the powers of the federal government. the three of the most powerful institutions not only in the country, but in the world. the department of defense, the department of homeland security, and the justice department exploring the use of them and you know, what could have been the implications if they did something here? you know, if this, if someone had said yes, what directi

. >> jonathan, our friend, joyce vance, tweeted this. an important takeaway from this reporting.looks questionable but legal can take shape as overt acts in a conspiracy. understanding the whole ball of wax surfaces evidence of who led the plan, investigations take time. what's your sense, jonathan, of where the committee is in terms of referring something broader than the specific criminal acts at the end of their probe but something bigger and more all encompassing like a conspiracy? >> i mean, that seems to be, reading tea leaves and talking to people involved with the committee, that seems like where this is going, to try to construct a case of conspiracy up against the president and his closest aides. but to joyce's insightful tweet, investigations take time. but this committee only has so much of it. it does not have unlimited time. do we know what's going to happen this november with the midterm elections? no, we don't. there is a chance the democrats will hold control of the house. of course there's a chance. but historical trends run against them and joe biden -- preside