>> the statute says the case is dismissed. >> joyce vance, so the georgia speedy trial law is a force to be reckoned and now we're going to see donald trump saying i want my case served from that. fani willis, it last thing she said today was, great, let's do all 19 of them on october 23rd. >> right. so donald trump and other defendants who want to sever will have to come into court and they'll have to explain to the judge why they're prejudiced if they're forced to go to trial on this early date with kenneth chesebro. usually that involves defendants talking about the kinds of evidence that can be introduced against codefendants and how that can prejudice them. and you can see how with 19 defendants that can quickly become a very messy situation. but as gwen says, the law is very clear in georgia. once this demand is made, chesebro is entitled to his fast trial. that's very likely to take place on that time line unless he alters his request, and so it's very likely that we'll get the benefit of cameras in the courts in georgia and this early view of the evidence in this case. >> amy

gwen keyes fleming, emilia copeland, joyce vance, harry litman. there would be t-shirts with donald trump's mugshot on them. and of course, donald trump is the first to be selling those t-shirts tonight for $34. he has sent out a solicitation to sell those t-shirts to the most gullible political contributors in the history of political contributions in america. donald trump said a few words about what he experienced in atlanta just a few minutes ago. and of course, he lied. >> we were going through tremendous crowds in atlanta. they were so friendly, so friendly. but this is a radical left district eternity as we have in new york and as we have in all the other places. >> just, note to the audience if you're wondering where our video is of the tremendous crowds, the video doesn't exist because the tremendous crowds don't exist. gwen keyes fleming, we are entering the space of -- where donald trump has to live under a multiple set of conditions under what he can and cannot say publicly, who he can and cannot talk to. in the georgia case, there is t

attorney, joyce vance.s to have been, i mean, listen, it's been 48 hours since the protective order was issued. more tightlipped than the former president normally is. is this something we're surprised about or do you think his legal team has gotten the message and they've communicated that to him? >> so, this judge, tanya chutkan, she means business. she was very clear about imposing the sanction, it was not a threat. she said, if trump kept it, up that would speed up the trial process. that, of course, that's his weakness, that's something he does villages not want to see happen. appears to have taken that warning at face value. you, know how long that's gonna last for, yasmin, that's anyone's guest on whether he'll be able to keep himself off of social media. >> i want to read for you from the protective order. i want some clarification on how they're gonna police all of this. i will allow the defendant to review the sensitive material without being accompanied, without having a member of the legal team

his book," american psychosis of the gop" coming out next month, and prosecutor joyce vance. this is huge to me, right? because what you had, a lot of these people working on the fake electors scheme, they could always kind of argue, hey, i was just talking, this was just -- i was just speculating, this is a bunch of friends and i throwing ideas up against the wall. we weren't connected to any of the violence. but when you have one of the people on the fake electors scheme actually at the capitol, that's a pretty strong link, that's the kind of thing that should put you in legal and possibly jail jeopardy, correct? >> it's utterly fascinating, because it's tough to say that you're a lawyer sitting in your office researching the law and providing people with legal advice when you're trailing alex jones around the capitol, videotaping comments that he's making. you know, jason, something that's interesting here is how much of this did doj know? presumably they're already in the loop on this and they know what to make of it. but it is absolutely a tantalizing piece of informatio

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama, and laura jarrett, senior legal correspondent for nbc news. laura and joyce, great to have you both with me tonight. laura, let me start with you in terms of the many people named in this indictment down in fulton county. i want to start with the news we have on mark meadows. because mark meadows today is filing for a change of venue. he's filed to move fani willis' case against him to federal court. do you think such a move is likely? >> whether or not it'll be successful will be up to the judge. let me just say it's not frivolous. it's not crazy. whether or not he'll win, we'll have to see. but the argument is what he's being charged with in the new indictment has to do with things and actions he took while he was chief of staff. the removal statute says if you have a coverable arguably move you have to remove it. if the charge was mark meadows had to do with robbing a bank you would say that's crazy. phone calls, putting pressure on sta

joyce vance is sticking with me.president trump is like a child, you tell him not to do something like take government documents or pay off sex workers or threaten witnesses and he'll do it, even if a judge tells him not to. will he actually face any consequences? we'll discuss it when we get right back. this is jason johnson on "the reidout." ble with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your d

comcast business, powering possibilities. >> we're fortunate to have a joyce vance and greg bluesteinticking with me for more on what is at stake for former president donald trump's legal future in georgia. joyce, i wanna go back to you again. let's talk about the fact that trump continues to appeal a decision made by drug -- judge mcburney in terms of removing fani willis from that case, from that prosecution, as well as the release of that special grand jury report. turning about the outcome of that appeal, would that necessarily impact the prosecution of donald trump and others if the grand jury does return a true bill on tuesday against him and the other codefendants? >> first, off katie, i think that effort by trump's all but a dead letter. it's been rejected by georgia judges up to this point. there is no merit to the suggestion. this is just the typical trump bluster. everyone is against him. it's a witch hunt. it's not going anywhere. but even if it did, its impact would be very limited. he has really two arguments. one is that fani willis can't participate in the prosecution.

attorneys joyce vance and paul charleston.ul, let me go to you first because this is basically within a larger political context, but i believe what the attorney general said was that daniel weiss has said several times that this investigation is ongoing, that of course has been a big issue because it was part of the reason that the judge refused -- the judge in delaware refused to accept the plea deal, which is still not been consummated by both sides and not accepted by the judge. what does giving him a special counsel's infra ma tore mean? is it to give him for the appearance of independence but independence from the justice department because of all the criticism that as a district attorney he could be removed or would have to report to the attorney general? >> it gives him both, andrea. it gives the optics, it gives the view from the public that this is an individual who will be acting in an independent fashion. merrick garland has said that the decision as to who, when and where if any charges are going to be brought is

joining me now is joyce vance former u.s. ey for the northern district of alabama, and laura jarrett, senior legal correspondent for msnbc news. laura and joyce, great to have you with us tonight. laura, let me start with you tonight. -- i want to start with the news we have about mark meadows because mark meadows today is filing for a change of venue. he has filed with the northern district of georgia to move fani willis's case against him to federal court. do you think such a move is likely? >> whether or not it will be successful will be up to the judge. let me just say, it's not frivolous. it's not crazy. whether or not he will win, we will have to see. but the argument is, what he is being charged with is a new indictment and has to do with new indictments actions he was taking -- while he was chief of staff. the removal statute says, if you have a cover-able argument there, you get to remove it. now, if the charge was that mark meadows originally allegedly robbed a bank, you would say, that's crazy. that has nothing to d

still with me, joyce vance and laura jarrett.we are going to know the names of these 30 unindicted coconspirators, one would presume, relatively soon. it feels like, just from the general sleuthing we have done, that a fair number of them are fake electors who have immunity deals squared away. the rest of them -- i mean, are these potential average points for the government? is that why they are unnamed and unindicted as? yet >> so, it depends. sometimes you see this jury situation like this because they are still working out a little bit of a deal. so, perhaps the person is going to provide some testimony in exchange for. that it will get immunity. sometimes the government just doesn't have the evidence to make the case for whatever reason. maybe they don't have the text or the calls. or sometimes it's just messy, right? and so you listed as an unindicted coconspirator. we don't know. we do know some of these people have reached deals, based on our reporting. but some of them it's just not so clear. and so i think we are going t

out paul butler and joyce vance, stay with me, we have more to discuss after a quick break.an) uh, yea. i have to watch my neighbors' nfl sunday ticket. (josh allen) it's not your best plan. but you know what is? myplan from verizon. switch now and they'll give you nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv, on them. (hero fan) this plan is amazing! (josh allen) another amazing plan, backing away from here very slowly. (fan #1) that was josh allen. (fan #2) mmhm. (vo) for a limited time get nfl sunday ticket from youtubetv on us. a $449 value. plus, get a free samsung galaxy s23. only on verizon. (vo) ninety-two percent of students in high-needs schools can't afford essential school supplies. subaru and our retailers are there to help by giving millions of dollars in funding along with school supplies students need. we call it “the subaru love promise” and we are proud to be the largest corporate supporter of adoptaclassroom.org. it's just one of the reasons forbes ranked subaru the number one automotive brand for social impact. subaru. more than a car company. i'm saving with liberty

joyce vance is back with me. what is the significance here?s and his lawyers are claiming and insisting that he did not break laws or violate rules. he just didn't have to disclose it until now. does that sound credible to you? >> right, so, he argues two things. one, as you pointed out, joy, is inadvertent disclosures. for what ever used reason, i made a mistake, i'm human. repeatedly. and the second part of it is this notion that he wasn't required to report some of these quote unquote hospitality trips until the rules for recording change this year in the wake of all these disclosures. technically he might have a point. practically the issue is, who is prepared to do anything about this? did these justices, i would include judges alito as well, who did not disclose everything that one might think any other government employee would have disclosed, is anyone willing to take this up? will there be any formal sanction? will the court acknowledge that there have been passed scenes and we commit to doing better in the future? might doj investiga

joyce vance and christina greer are back with me. oping to find here? what obligations does fani willis have to send it over. last i checked, there is nothing wrong with her talking to smith, who is investigating the same crime. the attempt to overturn an election. attempt to overturn an >> right, you're 100 percent correct about that. there is nothing wrong with federal and state prosecutors coordinating. it happens all the time every day in this country. jim jordan knows that. he knows that fani willis will not comply with his demands, because they are improper, just like the ones made to alvin bragg and manhattan or. so, our only possible takeaway here is that jordan is not engaging in some form of legitimate congressional oversight. this is just political posturing at its worst. he's hoping he can cast aspersions, he can convince people who are poorly informed that something inappropriate happened. it's really a desperate last gasp of trying to delegitimized body well as his prosecutions. >> christina, i want to turn now to this m

joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney in alabama and professor of law, excuse, me at the university of alabama school of law. and barbara mcquade, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney in michigan, and law professor at the university of michigan law school. both are co-hosts of the hashtag sisters in law podcast. good morning. ladies, it's so nice to have you here. joyce, i want to start with you. obviously, what's top of my mind right now is this motion for protective order. as we all know as former prosecutors, protective orders are not rare in cases at all, frankly. especially in cases like this. but joyce, when it comes to the actual immediate response that we got from the doj, you bet truth social post, the doj did it very clear in the motion that they have a concern about a quote, harmful, chilling effect on witnesses or an adverse effect on other administration of justice in this case. what's the likelihood of success for jack smith on this motion for protective order? >> so, the protective order, as y

during we need to continue the conversation on trump's only legal cases is joyce vance, msnbc legal analyster u.s. attorney in alabama, law professor at the university of alabama, and a co-host of the has texas there's in law podcast. joyce, my friend, thanks for joining us. let's start with the federal election interference case for donald trump. so, donald trump's team is proposing and april 2026 trial date. i know it brought some chuckles and some laughs and a lot of the region when that was announced. but you know, joyce, there is a march 2024 manhattan d.a. trial that has already been scheduled. a. may 2024 trial that's been scheduled, and now, fani willis. we'll get to that in a minute. fani willis wants to go to trial as soon as january. so, joyce, how does this work, necessarily? because special counsel jack smith is on the election interference case and the classified documents case. those would maybe be stacked like, one next to each other. how does this actually get navigated? how realistic is it that trump is weighing in the april, 2026 trial? >> so, i think for starters the apr

jill wine-banks, joyce vance. today's been an experience for a lot of people. including the members of congress, who were inside the capitol on january 6th well that insurrection was going on. fearing for their lives. congressman, jason crow, one of those members of congress. he joins us right after this. ns us right after this hi! need new glasses? buy one pair, get one free at visionworks! how can you see me squinting? i can't! i'm just telling everyone!...hey! buy one pair, get one free for back to school. visionworks. see the difference. at pnc bank, you can find us in big cities and small towns across the us, where our focus is to always support the people who live and work there. because you call these communities home, and we do too. pnc bank. i'm patriotic kenny. and, hi, i'm amanda on tiktok. my scooter broke down. i went into a depression. how do you feel about that? pretty sad. and i posted it to show that kenny's not always happy. within 24 hours people had donated over $5,000. no, you're kidding. we s

attorney for the northern district of alabama and now msnbc legal analyst our friend joyce vance. ning. first, let's just get your broad take-aways from what you saw last night, late last night as this indictment was unsealed, a sprawling, sweeping indictment against donald trump and more than a dozen of his allies. >> youp i think sprawling was a great word for it, because this indictment which i'm still reading through is so comprehensive. it starts early days. it doesn't finish until 2021. that's maybe an incredible feature of this indictment that donald trump is still trying to engage in election fraud almost a year after the election has been decided, nine months after joe biden has been in office. and because willis has used the rico statute that we've all discussed so much, she's able to bring in these sweeping claims, some that occur outside her county. she's the district attorney in fulton county and some that occur outside of georgia to give a broad picture of election interference by a former president, people close to him, his lawyers but also some folks inside of georg

joyce vance is a former u.s. attorney from the northern district of alabama, now a professor of law at the university of alabama, and she joins me now. first, joyce, explain the context of this proposal by jack smith's team. this is kind of an opening bid, i imagine. what do you think of it as such? >> i think opening bid is a great way to characterize it. the judge has asked for a proposed trial dates and this is the government. it is a quick but not an unreasonably quick schedule, and the government imposes a lot of the pain in this calendar on itself. for instance, giving itself just a brief period of time over the thanksgiving holidays to respond to a certain set of pretrial motions. so the government is showing that it is willing to assume a lot of the burden of this quick pace. but chris, you may well be right. the judge may see this is an opening bid. they there may be back and forth. but hanging over the proceeding in the political calendar. and perhaps there is a trade-off here, that is the former preside

andrew weissman, joyce vance, no two better people to weigh in on this topic. thank you both for your time and expertise as always. >>> still more to come this evening. there is a new casualty in florida governor ron desantis' culture war, and that casualty's name is william shakespeare. i'll explain that coming up. >> breaking news out of ohio where democracy itself just won. that's next. t won. that's next. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 36 month financing on select smart beds. shop now only at sleep number. but blendjet■s back to school sale is in full swing! blendjet gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on the go so you can whip up a mouthwatering beverage wherever you are. enjoy 15 plus blends before rapidly recharging via usb-c. cleanup is a breeze! just blend water with a drop of soap. stand out even when you're accidentally twinning with our kaleidoscope of colors. don■t be tardy for th

attorney joyce vance. joyce, i want to pick up with rico.u think of it, you think of organized crime. this is what the indictment reads. trump and the other defendants charged in this indictment refused to accept that trump lost and they knowingly and willfully joined a conspiracy to unlawfully change the outcome of the election in favor of trump. that conspiracy contained a common plan and purpose to commit two or more acts of racketeering activity in fulton county, georgia, especially in other states. the scope of this, not just the number of people, but the number of places where it goes, i think, for a lot of folks, when they thought about a georgia indictment, i tailored to what happened in georgia. tell us what you see here and why it works in the rico indictment. >> the rico statute does give prosecutors broad powers to go after groups of people who commit specified types of crimes together. it's not simply limited to organized crime. although, that was its original and intended use. the statute, federal and georgia, doesn't just say

-based attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years that a federal prosecutor. cameron, i know you have interviewed fani willis, you know this, woman she has set a very aggressive timeline for this case. what should we take away from that? >> well, it is not surprising that she did so. she has been very clear that she has been a marshall ford on this case, despite all of the annoyance around, it she is moving forward, moving forward quickly. having said that, i think her timeline will be complicated by a question made today, and certainly going to object and be motions to delay. but, she's making it clear she is going to -- this is just days after the indictment shot, she is seeking -- to set a trial date. she is also, as you know, august 25th as the time when everybody has to show up to the courthouse, be booked, or they are going to be -- issued for the arrest. so moving forward. >> what can you tell us about the judge in georgia? >> well, i just actually wrote a story about it. a very young man, 34 years, old just got on the bench, just got on the bench earli

attorney, joyce vance, thank you very both much for coming in this morning. and charlie sykes, thank you as well. and still ahead on morning joe, house speaker, kevin mccarthy, falsely compares donald trump stolen election claims. to actions taken by ellery clinton, and al gore. after they lost their own presidential case. >> why do they lie through their teeth, when they know there is video to show their lying? >> because they have platforms that they can go on, where nobody holds them accountable. that's why. >> they let them lie? >> yes, they let them life. they don't have any questions. they can specialize as long as they want to millions of people. they have a platform to do it. >> and they'll play a video game that shows that they lived through their teeth? >> now, they're not held accountable. that's where we're at. district attorney, funny, willis weighs in on the status of her years long investigation into election interference in georgia. what she is saying about any possible impact from the special counsel's probe. also ahead, as former president t

attorney joyce vance, new york times justice reporter glenn thrush, and veteran journalist and political white house editor sam stein. joyce, can we start with the search warrant of trump's twitter account? how would that be useful in a criminal trial? >> in order to get a search warrant you have to convince a judge that you have probable cause to believe that you will recover fruits or evidence of a crime in the place to be searched. that is very interesting, because much of what goes on in a twitter account is public. we all read trump's tweets. it seems likely that prosecutors wanted something behind the scenes, perhaps dms that the former president sent or received, perhaps they wanted a review of his search terms. but we can be certain that he had a very they had a very high-level evidence of the presented to the federal job judge to obtain this unusual. it was clear this went off beyond -- because the judge issued a nondisclosure order which requires a much higher standard. >> all right, glenn, it seems like elon musk wanted to help his old friend donald trump. twitter complained t

attorney joyce vance, professor at the university of alabama law school and paul butler former federal prosecutor. joyce and paul are msnbc legal analysts. you were inside that room, take us there. >> there are probably two things that stood out to me the most. i've been in the courtroom for all of donald trump's arraignments. he's getting more comfortable for what was in new york a tense and uncomfortable arraignment. yesterday, he looked like this was old hat for him. what is so outside the norm becoming somewhat mundane for the former president. you see a degree to which he's been able to build his court appearances into his campaign overall. they have a well oiled machine now. the other dynamic that i've been fascinated by the last two hearings has been the presence of jack smith in the courtroom with donald trump. and this room, only about 15 feet apart at an angle where they couldn't help but see each other. as best i could tell, donald trump looked at smith once and for the ref of the time he was in the courtroom, he did everything he could to avoid meeting his gaze again. smith

attorneys joyce vance, barbara mcquaid, both msnbc legal analysts. joyce, let me start with you on this one. as i mentioned, as we came into this hour, lies are not enough for jack smith and he stated that pretty clearly in this 45-page indictment. this is about much more laid out in paragraph four of this indictment where he notes about the unlawful means of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results. joyce? >> that's right, yasmin. the line that smith sets up in this indictment is there is a certain amount of conduct that is awful conduct, but we have to tolerate it. because we are a democracy. and the allegation is that trump ultimately crosses over the line between awful and unlawful and once he's done just talking, just pushing the lie, even taking legitimate actions like challenging results in court, and he moves on to doing things like entering into conspiracies designed to subvert the justice department, to push the fraud line even further, that he's in criminal territory. so that's the construct that smith has set up for

attorney and analyst joyce vance. welcome to both of you. david, i tried to go through a lot of what i saw and as i mentioned i was seated just behind jack smith. no surprise to you he did not turn around and try to take questions or wanter with any of the reporters behind me. >> didn't try to get your autograph, ari. >> nothing was exchanged neither words nor signatures, sir. but i mentioned that the defendant's counsel has every right to make those arguments but several of those, shall we call them respectfully the more sweeping or sort of broad arguments really fell flat with the judge and what does that tell you about where they're headed now that the trial for march is soon? >> yeah, there's lots of motions that can be made in pretrial litigation and, you know, it's funny, where he is accusing the government of making a show trial, a lot of the motions that you went through are really show motions. really selective prosecution is going to float like a dead balloon and executive immunity likewise given these charges, i think there's moti

attorney joyce vance. was it in any way a surprise that meadows took the stand? and tell us about his testimony. >> reporter: andrea, it was. in fact, we didn't know until we saw him this morning that he was going to come down to georgia. so to have him at the hearing, to have him be the first person to take the stand, was certainly something that we weren't necessarily anticipating. now, at last check, we do have a producer who is inside the overflow room and has been kind of running out to give dispatches of what's happening inside. but as of about 20 minutes ago or so, he was still on the stand. we know his team had already finished questioning and he's now getting questioned by the state. he was asked a number of things. as you mentioned, his duties as a white house chief of staff, describing it as a 24/7 job and describing himself as the former president's personal assistant and talking about his range of duties, the number of briefings he would receive on a daily basis. he was asked about his visit that he made to cobb county back in 2020 in the days follow

joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, law professor at the university of alabama and msnbc legal analyst, and matthew dowd, msnbc senior political analyst. so, vaughn, these big two developments here, the grand jury meeting today and this dispute over the protective order. what can you tell us about where we stand on both? >> reporter: right, donald trump right now has two teams. a campaign team that is putting on events like this, a rally in new hampshire slated to begin in just over an hour and then his legal defense team, which is actively working per the judge's order to confer with the prosecutors, from the special counsel's office, to come up with a -- two different times in which they can go before the judge to deliberate over the protective order. and she can have a hearing and hear both sides arguments based off the filings that came in last night. the extent to which a protective order should be applied to donald trump and the extent to which he can discuss discovery and evidence that is turned over as

attorney joyce vance, she's also the co-host of the hashtag #sistersinlaw podcast. and msnbc political analyst and former florida congressman david jolly. it's great to see you both. joyce, i want to know what you should expect when it comes to tomorrow's court deadline. >> trump will now have to file a response and will have to engage with the government on whether or not they should have a protective order in this case. that's a pretty cut and dry sort of an issue. trump is not entitled to take much of the discovery. he will be receiving. it'll include information that is personally identifying for some of these witnesses. much of it will be grand jury information, which of course is required by law to remain secret. and so they can quibble about the terms of the order, but in some way, shape, or form the judge will put a protective order in place before any discovery changes hands in this case. >> joyce, trump's lawyer also had this to say about violating the constitution. take a listen. >> vice president pence is an attorney. if he had any point side or thought t

we also have joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama. and barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. melissa, joyce, barb, it's great to have the three of you with us. melissa, let me start with you. talk to me about georgia's speedy trial law here. it's obviously now being front and center with what we've seen. what does it mean, that both sidney powell and kenneth chesebro want to move up their trial? and is there any benefit to them in doing that? >> right, i think that for these particular defendants, they have a lot at stake. they are both practicing attorneys. you have to imagine that their livelihood is in limbo. based on these charges. they do have a reason to want to get them resolved as soon as possible. it also means that their case will be severed from the remaining codefendants who, although these two have requested a speedy trial, the judge can't force all 19 to go to trial in two months. those cases would be severed out. that also means that those cases, which are severed out, get kind of a

she's from the atlanta journal constitution, and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney from alabama. this going to go down when trump and his co-defendants surf anne arundeler? >> ana, good morning to you. we now have a place. that's something we've been wondering about for quite some time. a spokesperson says based on guidance from the district attorney's office and from the presiding judge, it's believed that all 19 defendants are going to go to the fulton county jail. that's about four miles or so away from here, about a 15 minute drive. typically that's a process that includes fingerprinting. that includes mug shots. a spokesperson confirms that to me. of course it's not clear whether that would happen here. there are a number of factors that go into this. certainly the sheriff has said that he plans to treat this just like he would any other booking unless he is told differently. but we know the presiding judge has a say. we know that it's possible defense attorneys could work out or negotiate the terms with the d.a., and then also there's the presence of the secret service in a

bring in "atlanta journal-constitution" senior reporter that -- tamar, and msnbc legal analyst, joyce vanceng happening as was just described. what do you make of what's happening, and what happens now? >> right, so ken chesebro tried to call fani willis's bluff. his legal team was probably banking on the fact that they believed she wasn't ready to go to trial when they filed this motion for a speedy case. but she responded and made clear that she was, and, chris, you'll recall, there had been a lot of commentary on her delay after she said that an indictment was imminent. it's very likely that she used those extra months to prepare her case so that she was ready to go to trial at the time where she filed the indictment. now this whole mess will land in the lap of the judge. it will be up to him to sort out the varying requests. some defendants will seek, as donald trump apparently will to sever their case from chesebro and anyone else who might want an early trial. the judge will have to decide. it did these defendants go to trial as a group or will he now set a schedule that calls for som

attorney joyce vance. good to see you, voice. we showed how some of these coup conspiracies we've been tracking over time, and specifically we looked at the electors along with others, have now been indicted. your view of what we sort of learned this week big picture how jack smith is approaching these conspiracies? >> so i think we learned a lot this week, ari. not so much about the facts, which we already pretty much knew from the january 6th committee's work and from news reporting. we learned a lot about how jack smith and his team view the facts in a legal context. in other words, what crimes they charged. and so we have this three-part speergs structure. a conspiracy that talks about defrauding the united states. a conspiracy that talks about obstructing congress and trying to prevent it from certifying the vote. and then i think sort of a heartfelt conspiracy. the civil rights conspiracy. trump in advance said that the government had told him he was a target on this charge of depriving people of their civil rights. and we

andrew weissmann, joyce vance, no two better people to weigh in on this topic.h for your time and expertise as always. still more to come this evening. there is a new casualty in florida governor ron desantis's culture war. that casualties name is william shakespeare. we will explain that, coming up. breaking news out of ohio. democracy itself just one. that is next. one. that is next i'm jayson. i'm living with hiv and i'm on cabenuva. it helps keep me undetectable. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva is two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right a

joyce vance, chairman, and kyle, thank you so much.hen we come, back new reporting, we will stay on elon musk. his company, formerly, twitter now backs, consciously slowing down traffic to websites that mr. musk does not like. -- is here on that, and the company's slow walking that one from jack smith. we will go even deeper. the first republican debate is just one week away, the front-runner, he may have other plans that day. -- we break down what the gop is up against. the 11th hour just getting underway on a series wednesday. sday ♪ (tense music) ♪ one aleve works all day so i can keep working my magic. just one aleve. 12 hours of uninterrupted pain relief. aleve. who do you take it for? meet the team... behind the team. the coach. the manager. and the snack dad. all using chase to keep up with their finances. the coach helps save goals here, because she saved for soccer camp there. anddd check this out... the manager deposited a check. magic. and the snack dad? he's getting paid back. orange slicesss. because this team all has chas

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor, glenn kirschner, also a former federal prosecutor and frank louise e, the former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence. i really want to start with going around the horn and getting everyone's reaction to what was in this indictment. peter, what stood out to you? >> look, i think that this indictment more than the other two gets to the heart of the matter, right. the last two were important subjects, hush money, classified documents, national secrets. this is an indictment that goes through the heart of the question of american democracy, charges the former president of the united states for the first time while in office and in order to subvert an election that he had lost. according to prosecutors, it was fueled by lies and animated by -- one of the things really striking about the indictment is jack smith went straight after the defense that precedent -- that is defendants have used, that he supposedly has a great faith desire to find out the truth about the election, and he was genuinely pursuing's claims. ja

attorneys joyce vance and harry litman. what are the next steps?re's a hearing on monday. >> yeah. the next steps are, how is this case scheduled? one of the co-defendants, ken chesebro asked for a speedy trial. we talked to legal experts. they don't believe this will be the first case that goes to trial. the new york case is scheduled for march. on monday, the judge in d.c. will set a trial day for the election suppression case brought by the special counsel which only donald trump is a defendant there. that can get to trial faster than this massive racketeering case in atlanta. >> joyce vance, let's focus on mark meadows. there's a hearing monday on mark meadows, former chief of staff, his efforts to move the case to federal court. what do you expect to happen on that monday hearing? >> this is an evidentiary hearing. when the judge looked at meadows' notice of removal, he wasn't able to determine on the face of that document that meadows was entitled to move his case from state court to federal court. something that federal employees can ask a c

try it for free at freestylelibre.us >>> back with former prosecutor joyce vance. what were your key takeaways from this first matchup, this first pretrial hearing between jack smith's team, trump's team, and this judge? >> i think something we can take comfort in during today's proceeding was the fair way the judge handled herself. she is, after all, a former defense lawyer. she represents now neither party, and her job is to get things right. and she seemed intent on doing that. she was very critical of prosecutors earlier in the hearing asking why they wanted to enter this broad order. and she settled on the notion of including only sensitive information in the protective order. but that still is very broad. that will protect grand jury material, that will protect everything that has come over from the january 6th committee. although she gave the parties the ability to negotiate that a little bit if they wanted to lighten it up. ultimately, what this does is everything that a protective order is meant to do. it protects witnesses, and it protects the jury proces

thank you so much, joyce vance and ken dilanian. i appreciate the conversation. when we're back this just 60 seconds, multiple arraignments in michigan this morning for people charged in that state's fake electors scheme. what we know about the allegations. >>> plus, the fbi tried to serve a search warrant on a man they say threatened president biden and others, why it ended in gunfire. >>> also, new supreme court ethics questions, propublica's fresh reporting involving supreme court justice clarence thomas and wealthybenefactors. >>> and starships were meant to fly, one small step for virgin galactic is one giant step for space travel. what... y'all this is nice. salad plates? kelly clarkson? i'm fancy now! i have always wanted statement lighting. get nice things at nice prices at wayfair! ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ (christina) wanna know the secret ingredient to running my business? (tina) her. (christina) being all over, all at once. (tina) all the time. (christina) but my old network wasn't cutting it. and that's not good for baking. or judging.

andrew weissmann, joyce vance, no two better people to weigh in on this topic.or your time and expertise as always. still more to come this evening. there is a new casualty in florida governor ron desantis's culture war. that casualty's name is william shakespeare. we will explain that, coming up. breaking news out of ohio. democracy itself just one. that is next. and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. meet the portable blender we can barely keep in stock. blendjet 2 gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on-the-go. so you can blend up a mouthwatering smoothie, protein shake, or latte wherever you are! recharge quickly with any usb port. best of all, it even cleans itself! just blend water with a drop of soap. what are you waiting for? order yours now from blendjet.com before they sell out again! we used to struggle with greasy messes. now, we just freak, wipe, and we're done! with mr. clean clean freak, conquering messes is that easy. clean freak's mist is three times more powerful, and it works on contact. clean fr

attorney barbara mcquade and joyce vance. i want to start with what we began with, and that is this protective order. barbara, i'll begin with you. i mentioned that it could get hairy, the discovery process. ken was saying this is a routine, normally a routine issuance, it's not a big deal to get a protective order. why could it get hairy in this situation? >> well, as we can see, donald trump is going to fight everything tooth and nail. it is routine because what they want to turn over are all of the witness statements, so in order to be disclosed into the world, you could imagine that people who have testified against donald trump could find themselves being harassed or threatened by members of the public. donald trump is going to push hard on everything. and even if he doesn't get his way, the eventual delay in his trial, seems to be his game, fight everything, delay everything, concede no ground. >> i lost you for a couple of moments in that answer there. the connection went bad, so i'll ask joyce you the same question. i

with us now, blayne alexander in atlanta and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney who is now a professor at the university of alabama law school, also an msnbc legal analyst. so, blayne, what will happen today, vis-a-vis rudy giuliani and what do we know about the other co-defendants as well? >> reporter: well, jose, let's start with rudy giuliani. he's officially begun the process to surrender. we heard from him there as he was leaving new york. he's expected to make his way to georgia and really be here anytime. what we understand, according to people who are familiar with this process of what he's planning for the day is that he's flying down here with his new york counsel. they're going to go to the law offices of his local counsel, which he has just recently retained to represent him here in georgia. he's going to stay at that law office and his local counsel will do what we have seen from so many other attorneys for defendants here is come here to the fulton county d.a.'s office, meet with her team, and discuss the terms of surrender. once all of tha

joyce vance is a former u.s.orney, law professor at the university of alabama and an msnbc legal analyst, and barbara comstock is a lawyer who served as republican congresswoman from virginia. good to have all of you here. i want to start, ryan, with the threats against the judge incredibly disturbing, racist, vile stuff. what more can you tell us about it? >> yeah, and sadly somewhat predictable. i mean, this was sort of telegraphed from the very beginning. whenever there's, say, a person of color who crosses donald trump, you can see some of the language that he uses in reference to them, frequently he's called them racist, just made these baseless claims against them is this indicator to a lot of his supporters. this week he used a word that rhymes with the n word in one of his posts which set off a lot of vile attacks on those individuals. so this is really just sort of par for the course at this point, but what we saw in this instance was actually this threat come in just after judge chutkan was named the ju

it i want to bring in joyce vance, an embassy msnbc legal analyst. joyce, we're talking about the likelihood that this number 19 goes down in the number of codefendants. and the likelihood that some people play out here. my question to you is the fact that jenna alice, one of trump's lawyers, is saying that mr. trump is not paying the legal bills for any of the codefendants in georgia. does that suggest to you that trump is staking out in adversarial position to his lawyers? does that tell you anything about his defense and the likelihood that those lawyers, looking at the lack of money flowing in the direction, may say screw this, i'm out of here. >> right, so it's interesting. i heard barbara mcquade reference a couple minutes ago the fact that more than 90% of federal defendants plead guilty. and that's in cases across the board, you know. whether it holds up here or not is an open question. but what we're seeing with jenna ellis and likely with some of the others is the first sign of a split among the defendants. when you've got 19 of them, it's p

i want to bring in former federal prosecutor joyce vance. first of all, good evening, joyce. >> good night, ari. >> good to have you. >> i want to start big picture and read quotes to you as we promised to do. andrew and i and neal and christy and david all reflected this evening that this is now happening. we are just an hour into the news. we are half an hour in roughly since jack smith spoke, and we have been all been making our way through the indictment. big picture, what do you see as the significance of this conspiracy indictment against donald trump for trying to steal the election? what does tonight mean for america? >>, so we'll all be reading this indictment and studying it for days. i think that's something we should acknowledge as we begin to look at it. unlike the rest of you all who are diligent, and i have been listening to you make your way through it -- i of course skipped to the end, which i'm bad to do, and focused on the fourth charge in this indictment, which is the 18 u.s.a 241 charge, the civil rights conspiracy charge

i want to bring in joyce vance, in msnbc, legal analyst. we're talking about the fact that this number, 19, goes down, in terms of codefendants, and the likelihood that some people plead out here. my question to you, is the fact that jenna ellis, one of trump's lawyers, is saying long trump is not paying the legal bills have any codefendants in georgia. this is suggest that trump is taking an adversarial stance toward his lawyers? and it's impossible that the lawyers, looking at the lack of money flowing in the direction, say screw, this i'm out of here? >> i heard barb mcquade reference the fact that more than 90% of federal defendants plead guilty. that is in cases across the board, whether it holds up here or not is an open question. but what we are seeing with gianna alice and some of the others is the first sign of a split among thendts. when you've got 19 of them it's pretty inevitable that that will happen and when it will get even worse will be when they see discovery. laura mentioned that that has not happened yet in georgia the pr