>> joyce vance for us, as, always, joyce thank you. appreciate it.e going to go live to cairo, where world leaders are gathering to discuss escalation between israel and gaza, but without the attendance of israeli officials. and as we go to break the arab world showing huge support for palestinians, as my colleague, richard engel, shows us from the west bank. >> anger is growing here in the west bank. these are hamas supporters, it may say they must fight back against israel, they are calling for attacks, and they are calling for them to start right now. >> t now. >> listen, your deodorant just has to work. i use secret aluminum free. just swipe and it lasts all day. secret helps eliminate odor, instead of just masking it. and hours later, i still smell fresh. secret works! ohhh yesss. ♪♪ have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms like carpal tunnel syndrome... shortness of breath... and irregular heartbeat could mean something more serious, called attr-cm a ra

i want to thank joyce vance. professor murray is standing by as we look more deeply at what it means here with the trump lawyers flipping on him. the patterns and pressures are clear. chesebro admitting he committed this felony count, the fraudulent electors scheme. powell, something distinctly different, the voting machines plot. chesebro, although this was not part of today's hearing, we do know he was actually at the capitol on january 6th. there's footage of this where reportedly he's in the hat and dark jacket captured by these people who all were making films of themselves while some of them were criming. there is not evidence, i want to be careful to say, based on those videos that he entered the capitol, that he committed a crime on that site, although today he is a convict for oath asures taken to try to steal the election. i want to update this. we updated yesterday, more updates today. this was a complex, multi-pronged plot to try to steal an election with the lawful president-elect biden working on hi

attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. joyce, it's extraordinary, my team just said to me after a very difficult segment covering the war, they said, it's okay we have a much lighter segment coming up next. and to think, a lighter segment this about the former president and his former lawyer and a guilty plea. that doesn't seem right in all when you think about the grand scope of things. what were your takeaways? because we need to tell our audience, you predicted that she would turn in a plea. >> i don't think i could take too much credit, steph. because this seems like a fairly obvious decision for paul. she is a lawyer, she knows what the inside of a prison looks like. and she was facing as much as 5 to 20 years of custody in georgia with very strong evidence against her, and what made it worse was that the codefendant who has already pled guilty, was involved with her in the county voting intrusions. so he would've likely testified as her adding just even more reason for her to consider this plea. it's an interesting s

joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s.e university of alabama school of la and one of the co-hosts of the hashtag sisters in law podcast. joyce, good morning. you are always going to be smarter than me. i go to you when i want to real. let's start with mark meadows. hehathis reported immunity deal. let's explain the difference very quickly between this-limited immunity that came through almost bng forced to have to testify and full immunity you wrote a great great substack's about cooperation versus immunity. >> right, this is such an important distinction, katie, i know you understand this as well as i do. there is distinction between someone who is a cooperating codefendant who pleads guilty, given sentencing leniency in exchange for truthful cooperation and someone in meadows possession who testifies pursuant to a grant of immunity. you're right to point out that that means he's essentially forced to testify. the immunity means that he no longer has a fifth amendment privilege against self incrimination that he can asse

joyce vance, thanks so much for patients today.oup is saving stranded american civilians from the israel-hamas war. we're also following breaking news. a 17 truck convoy of eta's role in across the rafah border crossing right now from egypt into gaza. we've also received confirmation that at least five fuel trucks have entered gaza in the last few minutes. we're going to follow the story all morning long, and bring you updates as they come in. tes as they come in. r. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - chase. 15 or more headac

joining me is joyce vance. joyce, thank you for being here. i find us in a strange position. is there no immunity deal in georgia if there's one in the pheasant federal election case? how do you read the tea leaves in all of this? >> right, so i think part of the confusion, alex, might be over the fact that there is a difference between someone who is indicted and who decides to conclude a plea deal with the government. they plead guilty and they agreed to cooperate and exchange for favorable treatment. that's the kind of cooperation deals we are seeing here being handed out down in georgia. meadows, though, i think is in a different category he has been. offered immunity in exchange for his testimony and perhaps using the word "offered" is a bit misleading. because when your immunized, you really no longer have the option of not testifying. you have no fifth amendment right. nothing that keeps you from testifying. the only real question is the government giving you use immunity or transactional immunity. use immunity just means that your testimony can't be used against you.

joining me now, joyce vance, former district attorney for the district of alabama. eing here. please, help me understand whether we are barreling towards a stress test of bail conditions? the judge is gonna happen have to take up and earnest question whether they need to jail a former president ahead of a trial? >> so, i think of reluctant, the judges will be doing anything to deal with the interference in the election. ultimately, donald trump seems intent on pushing these buttons. he's had a lot of opportunity to walk it back. instead, he continues to advance his conduct. for instance, just leaving up some of these earlier posts, mark meadows, the last time i looked at truth social, was still not been taken down and that would be a violation of the gag order that was issued to him -- not easy for any of the judges here. >> today, the doj announced that they were indicting an alabama man for transmitting interstate threats. he had left threatening phone messages for district attorney fani willis. do you think the doj is trying to convey its seriousness in terms of t

joyce vance, thank you again for your time. thoughts, and expertise. i appreciate it. >>> coming up later this hour, what happens when the man described as the most important architect of 2020 electoral college objections, what happens when that man holds the speaker's gavel in 2024? >>> first, former vice president mike pence is bowing out of the 2024 race. are we on the eve of the great republican consolidation? that is next. stay with us. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85,

joining me now to give her take on the validity of all of this is joyce vance, former u. s. orthern district of alabama. and of course, co-host of the sisters in law podcast. joyce, thank you for being here. i am not a lawyer, which i say, i think, every hour of this program. but i did read highlights from this argument trump's lawyers were making and found myself chuckling. i wonder what you thought about the assertion that trump has absolute immunity in his federal issue in case. because the actions trump took, in and around the election, we're within the outer perimeter of his presidency. in his actions to overturn the election were at the heart of his official responsibilities as president. what do you make of that? >> right, so, alex, i think they're making the argument that they have to make here. obviously, stealing an election does not fall within a president's core duties. so they've crafted this argument using sterile language to describe the allegations against trump. instead of representing it in terms of the conspiracies that the government charges to defraud the

attorney joyce vance. laura, to you.ignificance of kenneth chesebro switching his plea, following what sidney powell did the other day, switching his plea to guilty, it seems to -- my read on this one count, count 15, it's a felony of filing false documents, but it seems to me it's a very light sentence that was a minimum of one to five incarceration and he ended up with a fine, community service, a letter of apology. >> it's hard to overstate i think the significance of what we have just watched unfold here. you have somebody who prosecutors believe was at the center of the scheme to create false slates of electors to put forth to national archives and congress to overturn the will of the people, overturn the election results in georgia, who has now pled guilty to a felony. this is the first one we have seen plead guilty to a felony. in return, for his cooperation, for his help to prosecutors, he is getting probation. that means he has given them something significant to the likes of what we saw yesterday with his co-de

joining me is joyce vance, former yoourns attorney in alabama. ing on october 16th. is the judge required to actually do a hearing? or could judge chutkan in this case summarily answer a narrowly tailored answer. >> she could enter an order without hearing argument, katie. judges do that all the time on pretrial motions, but here she's wise to hold the hearing. this gives her the opportunity to build a record, because this order, i think, no matter what she does, whether she denies it or grants it, it will go on appeal. appellate courts only consider the record in front of them. they can't put issues in front of the appellate courts they did not put in front of the district judge. by building a record, she's creating an evidentiary filing that court of appeals will be able to take a look at if in fact she issues a gag order that needs to be affirmed. >> joyce, i had glenn kirschner on my show this weekend and we were joking a litt bit about how when we were in law school, you focus on the footnotes. the reason i bring this up is there is the footn

attorney for the northern district of alabama, now an msnbc legal analyst, our friend, joyce vance.this. you heard chesebro's lawyer said, well, trump should. be worried about that. should you be worried? >> you should also be worried if you're a defendant in a criminal case and your codefendant pleads guilty. in a situation like this, fani willis certainly sees value in chesebro's plea regardless of what his lawyer will stay in public. sometimes a smart lawyer will hedge their bets like this to protect their client. the reality is chesebro didn't have much if any in the way of direct contact with donald trump, and the people who will really feel the pressure from his plea will be the other layer lawyers. if they then decide to plead guilty and cooperate, donald trump will have something to be concerned about. >> talk about what happens here. this is the third guilty plea. obviously you mentioned the lawyers. should we expect a domino effect there in fulton county? >> i think we will. that's the typical trajectory in a case like this because when defendants are looking a trial date

joining us now, msnbc's lindsey reiser outside the courthouse and joyce vance, former u.s.d professor at the university of alabama school of law. what are the terms of the gag order and where do things stand today? >> yesterday, the judge saying he does not tolerate any attacks against any members of his staff and saying consider this a gag order for everyone here, for all members of my staff, from here on out and saying he would sanction if that order is violated. the former president is here today as is attorney general james, the former president before walking in did lobby some attacks at the cameras in the hallway, not against any members of the judge's staff, but against james, who is often the focus of his ire. today calling her a political animal, used derogatory terms against her in the past. the former president continuing to repeat the things he's saying we need to clarify saying he's not entitled to a jury trial. that language isn't in this statute. neither side asked for a jury trial, so now it is a bench trial. and also saying that there was no fraud, everybod

. >> joining me now are judy meyer from lewiston and joyce vance who went to school there.overnor is speaking about her love of lewiston. what is it like there now? you have people with loss and a lockdown and fear that there's a man on the loose, a killer. >> yeah. this is all happening last night and overnight, it was more like quiet shock. people went home, stores closed, everybody buttoned up. it has evolved to this point today as turning into anger and worry and frustration. then i think that's shared by a lot of people. i know the governor said lewiston doesn't deserve this, but no city deserves this. the people here are just reeling. >> judy, the father of joseph walker, who was killed, he spoke to my colleague moments ago by phone. here is some of what he said about his beloved son. >> joe was a great, great son. loving husband. he had two grandchildren and a stepson living at home with them, bringing them all up. loved thousands of people. thousands of people loved him. i know he is gone. i've gone through this before. i lost a daughter in a car accident over 25 ye

. >> joyce vance, let's ask about aileen cannon and florida. this has been an issue in the mar-a-lago discussions since the beginning. then trump's team have said that they need, i don't know, i'm making it, up but two years to go through all the documentation. there was an argument that the prosecutors have made that says, actually, you had all these documents. a number of them are in contention and will be able to manage this but you're gonna have to do in a secure location, and once again, because of, that they wanted more time. where are we in that case with respect to needing more time? >> it's possible that there is a legitimate argument here that they need some more time. the government has said that substantially all discovery will be turned over by today. but there are issues involved in locations where classified documents can be viewed. and i might be possible that they need, maybe, an extra few weeks to get that done. there are lawyers for a defendant in a criminal case and they have obligations to do things in an appropriate timeli

catherine christian and joyce vance. tom winter, you were in the room.ys ago, we had what we thought was going to be a standard plea agreement, even if some of the terms were a little bit different than normal. those would typically last an hour to two, depending upon how the judge wants to discuss it and conduct it. how much the defendant in that particular instance, hundredor -- hunter biden, would have to say. that fell apart. today's hearing took place two floors down in what seems like a world away from that moment when hunter biden made his initial appearance and his plea. different from last night. it was following a script from the judge today. that's what they have to do. they have to make sure hunter biden was aware of the charges, that he understood the specific counts, the specific potential penalties, and then the judge was able to take his plea, which was not guilty according to his attorney, who entered it on his behalf. he said the conditions for his release, the same he has been out on. we did pick up a little bit of a detail there. it's

joining me now, msnbc legal analyst joyce vance, former u. s. attorney and a professor at the university of alabama school of law. bradley moss, a national security attorney who represents people who work in the intelligence community. and democratic congressman eric swalwell of california. he was an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial of donald trump, and he is a plaintiff in a civil lawsuit, a civil suit against donald trump for his role in inciting the january 6th attack on the capitol, thank you all very much for coming to the last word. joyce, trump almost immediately brought back the deranged jack smith attacks with his d. c. gag order on pause. what is going on here, and how will judge chutkan respond? >> well the judge, i think, is building a record for appeal and for any further discipline that might need to be imposed on trump for his lapses here. look, lapses in general are a generous term. because what we are talking about his efforts to prejudice a jury pooll. and possibly even to inflame passions against prosecutors

joyce vance, thank you again for your time. thoughts, and expertise.ppreciate it. >>> coming up later this hour, what happens when the man described as the most important architect of 2020 electoral college objections, what happens when that man holds the speaker's gavel in 2024? first, former vice president mike pence is bowing out of the 2024 race. are we on the eve of the great republican consolidation? that is next. stay with us. stay with us i'm sholeh, and i lost 75 pounds with golo. i went from a size 20 to a size 6. before golo, nothing seemed to work. i was exercising for over an hour every day. it was really discouraging. but golo's so easy, the weight just falls off. (pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting) (pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stun

attorney joyce vance, professor at the university of alabama law school, and an msnbc legal analyst.le fallout after the 2020 election, how significant would this be for smith's case and how concerning would this be for the former president? >> there is no doubt that meadows' cooperation, if it was fully and freely given would be valuable to prosecutors. but, jose, that's not what this reporting suggests. this involves meadows testifying only after the government in essence compelled him to do so, by giving him some form of immunity for the testimony. so it is very difficult to assess this. we have got meadows' lawyer, the former number two official at the justice department, former deputy attorney general george terwilliger saying this is not what the media is portraying it to be. the reality is we don't know yet just how dangerous this is to the former president, who, of course, this morning was out saying that mark meadows had told him repeatedly that the 2020 election was tainted by fraud. >> so, and help us understand, joyce, there are so many local, i guess, differences and obv

i want to bring in antonia hylton on the ground in lewiston, msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, nbc news investigative correspondent, tom winter is here, and former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi and an msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi. what do we know at this hour? >> i think they're looking at a couple of different things, first off trying to determine if there's any sort of body that they can find that's next to that car that you referenced. that's the last known location he was at. i think they're also going to look at any sort of cell phone history to try to determine where he was traveling after the attack. one of the concerns here is that from a cell site tower issue in new york city, for instance, you could be extremely precise because there's so many cell phone towers to try to determine where somebody's located is much easier. the more rural you get in an area, that can be a little bit more of a challenge. they continue to search along the river to make sure it's a national geographic barrier. you try to make sure the individuals not along

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor., of course, none of these comments are going to surprise trump's base. but what about the rest of the country? are we just getting used to him pushing these lies over and over? it's nonsense! >> we'll, if there was a role against nonsense coming from donald trump, look. the bottom line is, it is about politics, not the law. there's no lawyer, i a madrid, it would advise anyone, never mind the former president, attacking the judge in your case, attacking the judge's staff in your case, attacking the prosecutors in personal terms. that's not generally speaking a recipe for winning your case. so it seems very fair to conclude that what trump is doing here is continuing his campaign to return to office by other means. and his campaign, as his campaign in 2020 and 2016, it's not aimed at the rest of us. to your question, it's aimed at rallying and angering and riling up his own electorate and his own base. >> his base is not enough to win a presidential election, or it wasn't in 2020. caro

he turned to our experts to experienced doj officials and neal katyal and joyce vance.to hand it over to you with one of the charges in the leadoff story which is how the two cases are combined and colliding to put pressure on trump. your thoughts on that and what he faces in the federal court trial? >> right. so clearly, the federal charges are the charges that feel most important to all of us, ari, because that's the central conspiracy around january 6th and the big lie. it's always been a little bit of a mystery between fani willis and jack smith. we don't see anything happening publicly, but whether intentional or not those two cases are, as you say, impacting each other and any time fani willis gets a new plea deal in georgia, donald trump's lawyers in washington have to flinch. mark meadows is also an unknown. his lawyer pushed back very stridently saying that the evidence that meadows was testifying to was not as favorable as reported. i've seen defense lawyers actually do that to protect their client before they get to a big trial or maybe he is a hostile witnes

this is significant because i have just been speaking to joyce vance and msnbc legal analyst about who was going to flip and she and i were saying, there are a lot of people left, 16, but jenna ellis is the one that has been complaining the loudest and most publicly about how the fact she felt she was left in the cold because her attorney fees weren't being paid and you were seeing a future trial that has yet to be set for any of the remaining 15 co-defendants and a very long slog for somebody like jenna ellis. she decided i'm going to cut my losses now. i just want to note for you, inside the courtroom, jenna ellis was crying and we have video of that and also hugging her defense attorneys and also shaking hands with the prosecutors and so, look, she had a conversation with them, what she said is left to be seen, but we're going to hear from her if somebody like donald trump goes to trial. >> we're looking at the video. let's listen in to what she said in court moments ago. taking responsibility. >> if i knew then what i know now i would have it declined to represent donald trump in t

attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. terms of donald trump's georgia election interference case? >> this is a big deal if powell lives up to the obligation to testify truthfully. she's part of trump's inner circle. she was involved in the december 18 meeting at the white house where they discussed last-ditch measures and an effort for trump to hold on to the presidency, including this just crazy notion that powell would somehow become special counsel with powers to investigate voting machines after they were seized by the government. she's right in the thick of it. if her testimony is truthful, it should be compelling. >> is it too much to assume that they think she has some testimony that could be valuable, and what if she decides not to flip or break? what happens? >> right. those are the right questions to ask, mika. clearly, prosecutors decided, and they have heard a taped statement she gave them in advance of the plea agreement in hand now. the deal they've given her, they've relinquished the felonies. she pleads to

attorney joyce vance. e very concerned about how difficult it's going to be to enforce a gag order against a guy running for president of the united states. i will just say where i'm from in the redneck riviera in northwest florida, if you call a prosecutor in a federal court a thug or deranged, that's really actually not a difficult question to handle at all, because any federal judge i ever practiced in front of would throw any defendant straight in jail for contempt of court if they ignored one of his orders. >> yeah. it's not a tough call for you, joe. it's not a tough call where i practiced. and clearly it was not a tough call for judge chutkan. the gag order shows she's very deliberate and thoughtful about where this is headed. it's a carefully tailored order. it protects the rights of candidates that she will hold him accountable. >> what's the line for a judge? we just heard donald trump calling this gag order unconstitutional. it's not, of course. but what is the line for the judge that has to be c

attorneys barbara mcquaid, go blue, and joyce vance, we saved the best for last.urday in october, was looking rough the first half, but we ended strong. >> you could hear the cheers swell up in my neighborhood, joe, especially as our kicker, rikard, became the player in the s.e.c. to score the most points. roll tide. >> roll tide. now, roll or go sisters-in-law? >> you can't do it. >> thanks, guys. >> something like that. >> thank you for being on this morning. >>> coming up on "morning joe," one of our next guests says israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu's attack on democracy left israel unprepared for the hamas attack. a lot of questions about how they knew nothing about this. >> i still find that unfathomable. >> i know. we keep asking. the "atlantic's"e applebaum joins us ahead. >> sunrise on a monday morning over new york city, almost 7:00. s and tongues wagging. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. only unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans come with the ucard - one simple member card that opens doors where it matters for you. what if we need to see

june 10, 2019, impeachment hearing with joyce vance, who is not -- secondly, there is another unanimous for judiciary with two witnesses here, one week before we voted on impeachment in 2019. i appreciate you both being here. you were not witnesses at that point in time. the webster's definition of hypocrisy. two without objection, so order. >> chairman, without objection order. into the record dated january 6, 2019. a member of the subcommittee, the day after she was sworn in, came in the congress, and the article says, response to her words, impeach the mother ever, a day after she was sworn in. some may say these comments are hypocritical, but this is an embarrassment to the time and people of this country. thank you. >> without objection. so order. >> mr. chairman, i am afraid they are engaged in personalities against a fellow committee member. >> it was the commentary that accompanied it that i am referring to. >> that is what she said. >> it was the commentary. >> she said it. >> she said, impeach the mother effort. >> the mess character raises. it's astounding. throughout the pre