attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. with me at the table for the rest of the hour former top prosecutor at the department of justice, msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann. your thoughts. >> so that statement is interesting for a number of reasons. one, that it's issued so quickly. you have to remember that this is a case where the attorney general and the solicitor general know the law extremely well and know just how wrong this decision is. we have had special counsels under republican and democratic administrations.

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joyce vance is joining us -- >> it's interesting. >> i want to bring in joyce vance, a former prosecutorty tur and i are both wondering, what are the legal ramifications here. i think the political ramifications are he would have to step down immediately on conviction. >> well, you know, i think that that's likely. that would be consistent with prior practice. the reality is that some defendants want to push and say there's the prospect of an appeal. they want to make sure all the is are dotted and ts are crossed. the charges are very serious. it covers a number of different incidents. this is what prosecutors would charterize as a pay to play case. someone uses their elected office to make money, telling people if they want anything done to help them, favors, legislatn, insight, that they have to pay for it. it's the worst kind of public corruption federal prosecutors deal with. a very serious series of charges brought here. >> ali vitali is on capitol hill. who else has been calling for him to step down, especially if he is convicted? >> reporter: i imagine those calls are only going t

also with us, joyce vance, former u.s.pellate division in the 11th circuit. she is a professor at the university of alabama school of law, and a cohost of the # sisters-in-law podcast. they are both msnbc legal analyst. joyce, before we get to judge cannon, what is your view on today's january 6th news? another small fish sentenced to jail while the big fish who inside of the mob on january 6th gets immunity from the supreme court? >> you know, andrew will tell you that something the federal prosecutors don't like to do is to see what we will call the little fish pay the price for a crime when big fish walk away. i mean, sometimes that's the reality. it can be difficult, for instance, in organized crime cases to go all the way to the top. but that is why you hear prosecutors working their way as far up as possible, and emma jonathan, look. i would not be so quick to be sure that justice will ultimately come for donald trump. if justice comes at the hands of the voters when the election takes place, then federal prosecutors

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s.rofessor at the university of alabama school of law, and an msnbc legal analyst. and rick wilson, cofounder of the lincoln project and former republican strategist and an all around good guy. welcome to you both. so joyce, this is a different space we're talking about now, where you have the administration, president biden, unencumbered by re-election, actually leaning in to some real reforms with respect to the supreme court. what do you think of this reform of term limits and enforceable ethics code that the president is talking about? >> so look, it's clear that the system that currently exists doesn't work. we have a supreme court that has failed to enforce its own ethical rules and that means something new is required. along that spectrum, there are a lot of things that make sense, term limits is definitely one of the easier ones to approve and to get through congress, which is ultimately where this has to go. limiting the number of years that justices are on the bench makes sense

joining us now is vaughn hillyard and joyce vance, former u.s. ersity of alabama school of law and an msnbc legal analyst. good morning -- or good afternoon to both of you. joyce, i want to start with you. i was reading through your article. you neatly, as best you could, broke this down in terms of what the supreme court's decision meant in three different major ways. you can summarize for us how to look at that. >> this is a heavy lift. the opinion is lengthy and legally dense. i'm going to try to do the one sentence version. forgive me if it takes two. the supreme court says, trump gets immunity for unofficial conduct. he doesn't get immunity for official conduct. then the supreme court does everything it can to define the sphere of official conduct very broadly, far beyond what many of us would expect to be official conduct from a president. for instance, things like tweeting to get people to his speech at the ellipse might qualify as presidential conduct, not the conduct of candidate trump, which would be unofficial. >> vaughn, as we have bee

joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s.e university of alabama school of law, and msnbc legal analyst, and justice correspondent for the nation. thank you both for being here. explain and just regular real- world terms what it would mean to take over the doj and the fbi, and what it would do to this country. >> sure. so it would, in essence, mean that criminal justice, the power of prosecutors, would now be a tool that presidents could use. they can force investigation and prosecution of their enemies. they could terminate prosecutions or investigations into people who are their allies. in other words, instead of the justice department being the crown jewel of our system of democracy, it would be just another political tool to be wielded by a president. >> there is also, when you go through some of these items, prosecute, quote, voter registration fraud and unlawful ballot correction. reorganize and refocus the civil rights division of the justice department. lemonade, quote, lawless policies and all existing consent decree

. >> joining me now to make it all make sense, joyce vance, former u.s. and senior fellow at the center and let's start with you, joyce. this is like drinking from a fire hose. when you think we can move on, something drops like today. your thoughts about how trump's motion to vacate the convictions will play out in new york. judge merchan says he will rule by september 6th. >> right. so, look, i think what we're seeing here is a good process here. it's important that the judge is giving the parties time to brief the issue so that he can fully explore them and create a record. we all know that that's the basis of good lawyering here. i'm not quite certain the proceedings in new york expose a real problem in the supreme court's opinion by creating this very i think uncomfortable and expansive distinction between official and unofficial conduct, they've really ignored and bypassed this notion that donald trump blurred the lines and was in many ways committing conduct related to campaign and his private businesses from the oval office. how judge merchan will

could arguably be exculpatory to defendants to try to avoid precisely this kind of scenario. >> joyce vanceriffin, thank you. >>> still to come, conflicting split screen diplomacy. biden reassuring u.s. support for nato while trump meets with a top putin ally. you're watching "chris jansing reports," only on msnbc. has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. ( ♪♪ ) my name is jaxon, and i have spastic cerebral palsy. it's a mouthful. one of the harder things is the little things that i need help with: getting dressed, brushing your teeth, being able to go out with your friends by yourself. those are hard because you don't want help, but you need it. children like jaxon need continued support for the rest of their lives. whoa, whoa, whoa. and you can help. please join easterse

joining me now joyce vance, former federal prosecutor and law professor at university of alabama. host of the sisters in law podcast. good to see you, joyce. before we get to justice thomas, give me your interpretation of judge cannon's new deadlines today. >> reporter: the new deadlines are precisely the kind of deadline she always sets. ones that are not real and indulge every request by trump for delay, no matter how unnecessary. alex, there is a legitimate question. she does need to resolve the meeting of these rulings for this case. that is not difficult. that is not something that requires setting everything much further out for the simple reason that the conduct alleged in the florida case occurred after trump left the presidency. we went by that description, is there any question as to her bias and influence with donald trump in the way she is conducting herself and this court? >> reporter: she certainly has never hesitate to put her fingers on the scales of justice in his favor. >> you wrote that the issue of jack smith's appointment was not part of the immunity case but h

. >> joining us now joyce vance, former u.s.bc legal analyst, a lot to react to just in that one statement. first of all, i know that you have written on project 2025. why is it important for voters to know about that, joyce? >> so the heritage foundation, which is a conservative think tank, has put this together using a number of authors for chapters about virtually every cabinet level agency and other parts of government. these are many of them folks who were involved in the trump administration. and it sets forth their vision for a next generation conservative republican presidency, whoever wins in 2024. and the vision in many ways is a dark and an antidemocratic one. you hear mr. roberts saying that their goals, that their views can be implemented and it doesn't have to be a blood letting as long as democrats are willing to go along. it doesn't sound to me like that's the position of an american believer in democracy and the republic. it doesn't sound like the view of someone who thinks they're winning. it's a very dark view

. >> joining me now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, msnbc legal analyst, and a senior fellow with the brennan center. and sarah, senior advisor to the lincoln project and former communications director. tara, what was your reaction after you read that new gop 2024 platform. i mean, the only things missing in my opinion were promises for candy bar machines and soda in the cafeteria. it's an insult to voters if they think this platform is not just project 2025 and agenda 47 which is president trump's -- or former president trump's plans for when he gets to office again if he maybes it there. >> i've been paying attention to project 2025 for quite some time. when i was a republican, i remember the platform committee used to be things like lower taxes, strong national security, smaller government, not things like this. this is very, very scary stuff. i've been to six republican conventions, and the idea that they kept out abortion and marriage was very curious to me, because we know behind the scenes there was a fight about that.

joining me now is joyce vance and leah litman and host of the strict scrutiny podcast. s. joyce, in a normal world, it is all we would talk about this week because it is about the most amazing and surprising thing that could have happened. the supreme court has gone out on a limb here and it is unclear to most thinking people what we're supposed to do about this. they have said things that do not logically seem to be clear, including the fact that the president of the united states is, in fact, above the law, as long as he could claim he's doing his job. >> it is tough to read this decision as saying anything else. but you know, the good news here is, this case now goes back to the district court. judge chutkan will rule in the first instance on what conduct is official, what conduct is unofficial, and of course, she'll have to deal with this big gray area in the middle that the supreme court has set forth where donald trump will have presumptive immunity and the government will have to establish that prosecuting him would not impair the powers of this now near imperial

attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance.n. thank you all very much for joining us this morning. joyce, first of all, your gut reaction to the decisions and the implications? >> well, i think the opinion, when you read justice roberts' opinion, it's a clear approach that talking about consolidating power in the presidency, far more worried about making sure that power remains intact than it is about the potential that a future president might abuse that power. of course, this opinion doesn't happen in a vacuum. the context is the possibility that donald trump could return to the white house. and so, keeping that context in mind, which is something that the majority simply refuses to do, this notion of removing all of the guardrails from a presidency and immunizing conduct as long as you consider it with fellow members of the executive branch is a very frightening position for the country to be in moving forward. >> from a constitutional perspective, i'm curious how you view this decision yesterday from the supreme court, 6-3

attorney joyce vance joins us with her new column on all that when "morning joe" returns.en "morning joe" returns hi, i'm kevin and i've lost 152 pounds on golo. i decided to give golo a try. taking the release supplement i noticed a change within the first week and each month the weight just kept coming off. with golo you can keep the weight off. [ speaking minionese ] junior. [ laughter ] good job junior. way to go. [ speaking minionese ] >>> the left has taken over our institutions. the reason that they are apoplectic right now, the reason that so many anchors on msnbc, for example, are losing their minds daily, is because our side is winning, and so i come full circumstance until this response and just want to encourage you with some substance that we are in the process of the second american revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be. >> i want to bring in joyce now. she joins us. she's the co-host of "sisters-in-law" podcast, and also molly jong fast. both of them off of i'm sure staying up all night watching fireworks. she's of course, an msn

nightcap former missouri senator and msnbc analyst, hayes brown, msnbc daily columnist and editor, joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor and jemele hill, contributing writer to the atlantic. clear, some people are hung up on some flubs president biden had last night but donald trump himself had an entire week of crazy including the completely bonkers rally. where do things stand at the end of this week? >> well, let's just say one thing very clearly, i really want to emphasize the democratic party is very rude -- united right now. they are very united around an important principle, and that is beating donald trump. there is some honest disagreement right now about the best way to do that, but everyone understands that is the goal that unites us and frankly, this week is a good example of showing why that is so important. i mean, it is crazy town over there, whether it is electric boats or showers or toilets are all the nonsense he talks about , and his revenge and his lack of respect for the constitution. we go on and on about what a joke this guy is so i know you think every

to turn that energy into momentum that can carry beyond just this, to use a phrase for my friend joyce vance, into the sugar high, that will drive it, the issue and the urgency, the urgency of having donald trump essentially saying vote for me once, you don't have to do it again. he's asking that beautiful christians to make him a dictator and also the issues that democrats have to run on, abortion rights, civil rights, voting rights, ensuring that the economy keeps moving forward, and jobs keep being created and wages keep rising. kamala harris and whoever she picks has to do all those things at the same time. this energy is great but there's so much work that needs to be done by her and her team. >> they need an apparatus and i don't know, i think the thing about james carville's comments and as i said i'm just a baby, what do i know, i only elected one president. i don't know much. i'm young. but it does strike me that, why throw cold water on people's enthusiasm because all i heard previously was oh, the people aren't introduced, the people are not enthused by joe biden, the people don't

attorney joyce vance, who spent 25 years as a prosecutor, and neil katyal, former acting solitor-general during the obama administratio he has argued 51 cases before the u.s. supreme court. neil, what in the hell happened today? >> well, these are very serious criminal charges against donald trump for stealing documents, national security documents, then lying about it when the government officials asked him about it. and, you know, my first job at the justice department as national security advisor, we prosecuted cases all the time when it happened and those people ended up in jail. doing this i can only call it cray cray decision today that special prosecutor jack myth has been declared illegal, that is going to delay things past the election because appeals take time, and special prosecutor jack smith, they're certainly going to appeal. i think this is the easiest appeal in the world. judge cannon had 93 pages, and one page in "the new york times" just an hour ago, i think i took the analysis apart. and basically it's flawed start to finish. i mean one thing is we've had decades of sp

for more i want to bring in former investigative counsel for the january service committee and joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. marcus, what comes next for jack smith? >> the ruling complicated his case because conversations with the department of justice or the pressure campaign on the vice president, those are key parts of the multi-pronged attack we highlighted on the january 6 committee and on the indictment. i don't think it is as fatal a blow to the election interference cases some might be suggesting. it just means jack smith is going to have to show the difference between the actions of candidate trump versus president trump so for example, if you're talking about the rally on january 6 it will be important for the special counsel's office to show the court that the permit was taken out by outside groups. it was paid for by outside donors and you can compare it to other rallies like the fourth of july rally from 2019 that was paid for by the park service to show that the january 6 rally was actually a private event, a campaign event meant to get donald trump

i was speaking with joyce vance about this and we came to an agreement it is like him he is allowed toe documents, but he can't keep them. he is allowed to use air force one, but not keep it. that is how you see it if you want to be really simple. okay, let's move to trump's lawyers who made a big move, citing justice clarence thomas who wrote about the appointment of special counsel jack smith. of course, that was not a part of the issue before the supreme court, but it is among the motions before judge cannon, dave, how do you think she is going to handle that? >> i think judge cannon is going to be very careful before ruling that special counsel is unconstitutional. that would contradict other ports and again would get her appeal to the 11th circuit, possibly, not only reversed, but removed from the case. we are talking about clarence thomas, the supreme court justice's wife who was involved with january 6th, we should not be a part of this to begin with. he will continue to rule and he is on the extreme side of the court. he was the only one who rolled in the raheem the case that a

. >> joyce vance, thank you both for being here. i am kidding. you for your excellent analysis, as always. thanks for being here. >>> still ahead, new details on the doj's plan to push forward to hold him to account. accoun look, no line at the hot dog stand. yes! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty.♪ (♪♪) when life spells heartburn... how do you spell relief? r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids' dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. what will you do when the power goes out? power outages can be unpredictable and inconvenient, but with a generac home standby generator, your life goes on uninterrupted. because when your generac detects a power outage, it automatically powers up, giving your family the security and peace of mind they deserve. we don't have to worry about whether we lose power or not. if the utility company does not come through, our generac does. after the hurricane happened, we just want to be prepared for anything. 8 out of 10 home generators are generac, with thousan

attorney joyce vance who spent years as a federal prosecutor, neil carpio, department of justice, former acting solicitor general during the obama administration. he has argued 51 cases before the u.s. supreme court. what in the hell happened today? >> these are very samaria's criminal charges against donald trump for stealing documents, national security documents, then lying about it when the government officials asked him about it and you know my first job at the justice department was national security advisor. we prosecuted those cases all the time, right when they happened. those people wound up in jail. but do to this, i can only call it a craig cray decision today, that special prosecutor jack smith has been declared illegal. that is certainly going to delay things, probably past the election because appeals take time. the prosecutor here, jack smith, is certainly going to appeal and i think this is the easiest appeal in the world. judge cannon had 93 pages and one page in the new york times just an hour ago, i think i took the analysis apart and basically it's flawed, start to f

. >> joyce vance, thank you both very much. that is tonight reed out. you can see more of our project 2025 segments. he sure to share them widely with your family and friends. ask for joining us. inside with jen psaki starts now . >> okay. we spend a lot of time on this show grabbing the threat of a second trump term, and we do that because it is extremely important to understand what could be coming and what the stakes are. but i know that at times, that can all feel kind of dark. and really depressing. are we all just trudging through the mud of politics together with no end or light insight? but i have to say, lately i haven't felt that way at all. not because trump has gone away. but because there is just this kind of new energy in the air. and i feel more excited about politics right now that i have in a very long time. we are going to spend some time tonight talking about all the reasons to be excited right now with some of the people who are just as excited as i am. were going to talk to minnesota governor tim walz, who is being mentioned as a po

attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance. she's co-host of the sisters in law podcast.ce, we'll start with you. explain the charges he was convicted of. what was happening here? and how likely is he to be successful on appeal just on what you're seeing? >> so, this is a classic public corruption indictment where there are multiple charges designed to capture all of the aspects of the criminal conduct. that's why you see charges for bribery, for extortion, for wire fraud, for conspiracy, for obstruction, all in this one indictment. and what that means, mika, you know, in every criminal trial there will be an after-the-fact assessment by attorneys to see whether there's any error. was evidence admitted that was impermissible. were the jury instructions valid in all of their particulars. but with this number of charges it's very unlikely that the defendant will find an argument that will mean all of the convictions will be reversed. this was a strong case brought by prosecutors. and it's a great reminder of how our criminal justice system is intended to work. this case wen

attorney and msnbc legal analyst joyce vance.e hour former top prosecutor at the department of justice, msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann. your thoughts. >> so that statement is interesting for a number of reasons. one, that it's issued so quickly. you have to remember that this is a case where the attorney general and the solicitor general know the law extremely well and know just how wrong this decision is. we have had special counsels under republican and democratic administrations. we have had republican and democratic judges appointed by republican and democratic presidents who have said this is totally legal, including judges appointed by donald trump. so this is a total outlier decision. it is important to note that judge cannon's reasoning is that the special counsel is somehow untethered to the department of justice, untethered to the executive branch and is sort of off on this frolic and detour without it being sufficiently part of the administration. note to self. that is the exact opposite of what donald trump is s

vance. thanks. joyce donald trump's lawyers have an argument for postponing the sentencing and overturning the verdict? if they are successful in postpoing the sentence, what's the possible impact of that? >> the manhattan d.a. is wise to agree to postpone sentencing. that gives everyone the opportunity, including themselves, to brief the issues, to create a record so that when inevitable there's appellate review, the judge's decision is on a firm footing. it's very unlikely that donald trump has a significant issue. he will try to focus this in terms not of he is entitled to reversal because of the supreme court's decision, but he will argue that some of the evidence that prosecutors used, as you pointed out, should not have been admitted into evidence in front of this jury and that that invalidates the verdict. prosecutors have a lot of responses, starting with, no, that's not the case. working through some technical legal arguments, including whether there was other evidence to support the verdict. lot

vance formally accepted the vice presidential nomination while seeking to portray himself as a calmer front man, if you will, for the maga movement. >>> plus, biden/harris national advisory board member, congresswoman joyceith reaction to vance's speech and much more. >>> also ahead, the cast of the new film "twisters" will be live with us here in studio with a look at the latest chapter in that movie franchise. >>> "morning joe" just a few minutes away. of subscriptions? like the streaming services, music, fitness apps? probably like 6 or 7 around there. i do. i have a lot. what if there was a place where you could see your subscriptions and cancel the ones you don't like, all in one place? experian has that. oh, wow, i love it. i need that. and you could save $270 dollars a year. you're making adulting so easy. get started now with the experian app. (♪♪) >>> welcome back. in a new interview with b.e.t. news, president biden was asked about efforts to shore up support among a key voting block. take a listen. >> if i'm honest with you, the enthusiasm this time around is not the same as the last time you won. there is a certain disenchantment. detroit, philadelphia, atlanta are going to be deciding factor

even though vance is the insurgent and dominant trump wing of the party, mike dewine is a classic, pragmatic republican from another era. even a more moderate congressman, like david joyce, from northeast ohio. that will be interesting to watch. host: what about someone beaten in a primary race that gets kicked down the road to fill the seat they are running for and lost? guest: it's not often that we have senate vacancies that governors fill. i would really have to go back and look. often times, caretaker senators don't have a great track record of going on to win or serve long-term term in the senate. sherrod brown has 50-50 odds against bernie moreno. host: joe biden had a caretaker from delaware when he was elected vice president, right? guest: ted kaufman, right. but he did not run for another term. host: cook political report is where you can see the work of david wasserman and his colleagues. joe, republican mine, good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm definitely disappointed in the way the media has been so incurious about the situation with biden. it's obvious long before his resignation that mr. biden lost many of his physical abilities. the demo

even though vance is the insurgent and dominant trump wing of the party, mike dewine is a classic, pragmatic republican from another era. even a more moderate congressman, like david joyceom northeast ohio. that will be interesting to watch. host: what about someone beaten in a primary race that gets kicked down the road to fill the seat they are running for and lost? guest: that we have senate vacancies that governors fill. i would really have to go back and look. often times, caretaker senators don't have a great track record of going on to win or serve long-term term in the senate. sherrod brown has 50-50 odds against bernie moreno. host: joe biden had a caretaker from delaware when he was elected vice president, right? guest: ted kaufman, right. but he did not run for another term. host: cook political report is where you can see the work of david wasserman and his colleagues. joe, republican mine, good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm definitely disappointed in the way the media has been so incurious about the situation with biden. it's obvious long before his resignation that mr. biden lost many of his physical abilities. the democrats have led the