we're joined now live from washington by julian epstein, also from washington, we're join by judson phillips director of the tee.net. let's talk about wisconsin and the recall election. a very spirited debate last night between governor walker and milwaukee mayor tom barrett. bill clinton appeared in milwaukee today. lots of outside interests, as you know. lots of money, too. is this a preview of the presidential election that we've been led to believe it is? >> it is quite the opposite, as you know. walker has about a five to seven-point lead depending on which poll you look at. obama has a five to seven-point lead. there's no real extrapolation ability to the president. first the republicans have outspent the democrats by at least 7-1. secondly, there is an enormous amount of fatigue after 15 months of this campaign by organized labor. and third, if you look at the polling, while many people don't like what walker has done, particularly with the public unions. they're not ready to go through an impeachment mechanism. so there's no real, you cannot really extrapolate what's happening in the