judy shelton says something else she will be here at 2:25 and my takeaway on universities making more money that's not the right kind of math. you don't have to go to school to know somethings wrong with that. all that and so much more on " making money." charles: so a lot of odd things are happening in the market this week. the intertwining of bonds and stocks is beginning to unravel all of a sudden and equities are getting pummeled but at the same time, bonds are catching a bid. remember they were turning in tandem for most of the year. it's like one of those movies the script where the characters body goes through some kind of crazy transformation and then begins to revert back and it's all over. you know, it's happening within the equity market itself. here is what's happening. you know those mega cap stocks we talk about all the time. let's talk about the big four, apple, microsoft, amazon and google. they were 22% of the overall market, overall s&p. they're down right now to 18%, and they are trading at four times. the rest of the market you could see trading a lot lower. still,

completely given, and now there's even more uncertainty about the next rate decision joining us now is judy sheltonenior fellow at the independent institute, and judy, in la lot of our interviews, we look back at some of the things that have been done that might have been mistakes, and we try to figure out and maybe give some advice or counsel to the current fed on how to manage through the situation. because it still seems kind of okay gdp wise in terms of the employment picture there are still hopes that maybe we can handle inflation and not go into a deep, long-lasting recession. are you optimistic that we can steer down that very difficult path, but it could be successful >> it could be successful. and you talk about giving advice to the fed chairman. if i put myself in chair powell's position, i would be asking myself what is the most critical piece of information i need right now to do my job. and i think the answer to that is i need to know what is the real rate of interest. what is the -- if it were market determined, what would be the interest rate on loanable capital, and the reason that'

matters for our viewers and our readers. >> thanks, jim >> in related, "wall street journal" op-ed, judy sheltonfor the high cost of living in the u.s. and examines what role the fed, congress, and taxpayers play in it judy joins us now, a senior fellow at the independent institute. we had an extended interview there. i don't know how much time we really have, but in reading your comments, i agree. there were mistakes made i guess my question at this point is, do you think inflation needs to be reined in, even if it causes a recession, or looking back at how it happens, maybe the fed is complicit, but at this point, are they on the right track and is it the only track that's going to work near term supply side issues take a while. >> a lot of the inflation is already baked into the cake because we know that the -- what the government calls excess savings, what it really means is $2.3 trillion in government fiscal transfer payments made during the covid era a ton of that is still sitting in the hands of consumers. and so they still have spending power, and i think that's the aggregate demand that

judy shelton mentioned the quantity theory of money. forget the. forget milton friedman, all of these things are into this far as the fed is concerned. so, what is happening now with the money supply? the money supply broadly measured by m two has not grown for the past six months, but the fed is flying blind. they don't look at the money supply. they don't literally know what the they are doing, and we will have one whopper of a recession next year, because the money supply is not growing. okay. and it's even worse. there are engaged in quantitative tightening and they've given us the game plan. we know how they are going to tighten and shrink the balance sheet at the fed, so, my expectation is, now the commercial banks are producing enough money to just offset the quantitative tightening that has been started at the fed. if, if, the commercial banks, they are lending by the way, and credit rates of growth have been going down if that continues going down, we're gonna get into negative growth territory with the money supply and we will really have