and according to julia, colonel dent actually offered -- when he -- he told ulysses that the life of the army wasn't what julia was set for, he offered her sister, nel, to -- william seale: oh. pamela sanfilippo: -- to grant which grant obviously turned down, and continued to try and convince colonel dent that no matter what it took, he would be the one to make julia happy. susan swain: but is it not fair to say, some of his concerns may have been valid? because ulysses s. grant was a great warrior, a great general. but most of the other ventures he got involved with, he had a pretty difficult time making it work. william seale: yeah. pamela sanfilippo: well, of course, at that time -- you know, in 1843, 1844, nobody knew that grant would become the success. he was in the army. he was -- he actually didn't intend to stay in the army. he wanted to get out and be a math professor. so, i -- susan swain: but let's -- but let's look at his post-white house years. even after he has all of this time in the white house and the experience, he then goes on to a career in wall street and loses l

dent families. is that correct? pamela: yes. as a matter of fact, when ulysses and julia were married in the city of st. louis, none of the grants attended the wedding, reportedly because they didn't approve of ulysses marrying into a slave-holding family. susan: did father dent actually live in the white house for some time? william: yes, and died there. susan: and how was that received? william: his living there? well, he was a jolly old man called colonel dent. he wasn't really a colonel. he was very heavy, white-headed and funny. he was very witty. and that's probably where she got it. and the -- grant's father jesse, would come in. he was a horse-trader and entrepreneur. and he would go around to the departments and try to make them buy horses and hides and whatever from him. and the two of them -- well, just the repartee was unbelievable in the white house. the colonel called grant -- jesse grant "that old gentleman over there. go and they teased each other a lot. susan: it was good-natured teasing? william: in the long run, it was good-natured because it would have been stopped if it hadn't been.