from washington, julian barnes a reporter with the waourbl. he was embedded with the 101st air born division in 2003. i am pleased to have both of them on this program this evening. let he begin with you, max, tell me how you think-- because you're close to him and you have advised him-- general petraeus sews this mission and how he sees it differently, if he does, from general mcchrystal. >> well, i think he sees it as a hard fight but as he said repeatedly, hard is not hopeless. i think he see this is as an opportunity to turn around a war effort that was really underresourced, not given the attention that it needed for a number of years. that's something that general mcchrystal began to change over the course of the last year. i mean, we've had an amazing buildup occur during the time that general mcchrystal was in charge and remember, general petraeus was at central command at the same time so he was very much involved in the strategy that general mcchrystal was laying out. in the course of the last 18 months or so, we're seeing a tripling

you form bonds with julian barnes, ian mcqun, and others-- >> i've been very luck wemy contemporaries. they taught me how to write. >> rose: they taught you how to write. >> more important, how not to write. i was a rather didactic writer when i first got to know them. i was writing for the cause, rather. i wasn't paying very much attention to style. they pointed out to me-- and it can be enjoyable to read and write things, as well as a duty to do so-- introduce me to writers i hadn't appreciated enough, broadened my outlook, deepened my feeling for language. as well as providing me with a wonderful context of, yes, amusing friendship. >> rose: reparat a and dinner and common experience. >> yes. and commmm struggles as to the one to defend salman. here was a case of not just a good friend needing friends but a very important principle that needed to be defended and because my family background was rather small and didn't last very long. when i read the definition of friendship it's god's apology for relations. god's apology for family. yeah, i know what he means by that. it is family.