jumaane, how does this city begin to heal?, we have to accept some truisms, and one is as was mentioned before, trying to get better policing is not anti-police. that's one. two, there are genuine concerns that need to be discussed civilly. without the rhetoric that is dangerous. >> on both sides. >> i would say -- yes, on both sides. but i do believe on certain sides it's being raised exponentially at every turn and we have to stop. these communities ask for police officers, they do. they also ask that those police officers police fairly and justly. it is okay to have both of those things in your mind. they also ask for better housing conditions, better schools -- >> which goes beyond the realm of the police, of course. >> and streets even cleaned. >> yeah. >> those things have to be addressed at the same time as well. we keep hyperfocusing on the police. we should. we have to fix that. we have to get these other agencies in and have to say, it's okay, if i want a better housing -- doesn't say i'm against housing agents. stop

jumaane, let me ask you this. we already talked about the divide that was clearly evident between the mayor and the police department before the shootings. now you've had the shootings. has it gotten even worse? or is this an opportunity to call a truce? >> i think this is an opportunity to say let's sit down and discuss, but i -- i keep hearing each statement of rhetoric going higher and higher as opposed to going lower and lower, and that's something that's also frustrating to me. to say the mayor has blood on his hands, to say he's anti-cop, doesn't make any sense when you can't point to anything that says that. and also, there was some discussions happening atcross te country. he's the mayor of new york city. this conversation needs to happen. we need to take the opportunity to mourn. my hope is some of the protests might die down for a day or two so people can mourn. >> it's a discussion that needs to be had across the nation. not just a new york event. we did get michael back again. michael, you were talking

. >> jumaane, this is much bigger than occupy wall street.d one thing that changed the conversation in the country. this is much broader than policing as i see it right now. this is a culmination of frustrations across society. what if washington doesn't deliver, jumaane, what happens? >> that question is something that is hard to fathom. black and brown communities have been ignored. it is broader than policing. we have to deal with better policing issues. that's a lot of what we have to do when it comes to accountability. but if we just deal with the policing and we don't deal with the fact that these communities have been asking for jobs and better housing and for community centers and youth programs, if we don't deal with those as a whole and the only resource we send is the police the problems are going to get worse and bigger and larger. it's a time that we're not going to be able to ignore. when we deal with race we get ?/ uncomfortable. we can describe the problem in race very easily but it's if we talk about the solution in terms of

. >> city council member jumaane williams. thank you for making it up here tonight. we have melissa mark-viverito, the democratic speaker of the new york city council. speaker mark -- viverito,your reaction to the verdict today -- i'm sorry, not the verdict, but to the decision of the grand jury? >> well, i mean, to say that what is an angry or exasperated would be a blatant lie. there was a sense of real frustration and maybe some of us, right, had a glimmer of hope that some justice would be served, but then to hear from the grand jury that absolutely no decision or no indictment was to be made when, as council member williams indicated we witnessed a murder on tape. we saw not only the police officer that used the choke hold on eric garner but also so many other cops around him you understand the frustration that exists. and again this is an issue that doesn't only cut across the african-american community. we have communities across this city, latinos and asian americans that have experienced the same excessive use of force. there's concern here's -- here. >> the