the jury cleared bill. >> it had to come.ner or later, it had to come. >> reporter: since this was a civil case, jason wasn't getting any prison time. >> what amount of punitive damages, if any, do you award the estate of shirley carter? answer, $10 million. >> reporter: 10 million. bill and his lawyer never expected to see a dime. >> the more important thing for bill was simply to have eight people from that county hearing all the evidence and saying jason did it. >> reporter: meanwhile the county district attorney, ed bull, sitting in the back of the courtroom, had been watching closely. what would he do now? >> coming up -- the fates were not quite through with the carter family. >> i got right into his face. i said, why did can you kill your mother? there would soon be an act two. >> what is the biggest thing you have going in your favor in this thing? >> there really was no significant evidence against jason carter. >> when "dateline" continues. a gum health concern as well. you know, i talk to dentists every day and the

. >> it is my strong opinion the forewoman of the jury, the woman who was in charge of the jury, is totally tainted. when you take a look, how can you have a person like this? she was an anti-trump activist. >> the president, roger stone's allies, have again done an extraordinary thing which is to take aim at a specific member of the jury, the forewoman, to say she was tainted. this was an unfair process to suggest that somehow she was out to get president trump from the beginning.

we have just finished a jury trial buys them that was a hypothetical jury trial. we had real lawyers and a real judge acting in those roles but we had a number of our staff playing the criminal defendant. we had volunteers and family members and we did it so we could develop us practices for the litigants who are interested in proceeding that way rather than waiting until they can do it safely. there is a lot to figure out but i want to come back to where he started which is it was a terminus opportunity to figure out how we do a lot of what we can do better more transparently and with more accessible at the. >> thank you. my time has expired and i now call upon my colleague congresswoman roby for five minutes. >> again thank you to all of her where does this for being with us today. judge campbell during this pandemic there has been an increase in technology and the use of technology and our federal courts and the general public alike. however there are valid security concerns surrounding technology platforms such as zoom. if you will tell the committee how feder

constitution requires a grand jury indictme indictment. a grand jury will hear all of the evidence. this police officer, this defendant can testify before the grand jury if he wants. most defendants don't. they grand jury will decide what the final charges will be, not the politician prosecutor. >> neil: you know, judge, i am not aware of the various city and police department rules and laws for example on police conduct regarding in this place taser guns. in atlanta, there is apparently, and does not warrant a lethal response even when you are fired on one. i found a little bit surprisingly, because in the heat of the moment and knowing that these things can kill people, and they have in the past, as we were hearing earlier from ted williams, i am wondering if that would come up, you know, in a trial where it is an oddity in atlanta, but it's nonot an oddity elsewhere. what do you think? >> right. well, this is a trial, if it does happen, where experts will testify. they will get manufacturers of tasers and professors who examine tasers and police officers who have used tasers. and

jury unable to say for sure if fred mueller had killed his wife or not.u hear those two words again -- "hung jury" -- >> it's crushing. crushing. >> absolutely crushing. >> reporter: disappointment again on both sides. do you ever look back and think, "you know what? maybe we shouldn't have done this? it wasn't there from the beginning." >> absolutely not. >> no. >> both these trials were worthy of prosecution. a woman was murdered and both the efforts were more than worth it. >> reporter: so how close was the jury's vote this time? eight jurors believed fred was guilty and four voted to acquit. >> i have too many questions that are unanswered. therefore, i have reasonable doubt. >> we just couldn't come to agreement, you know. i was steadfast guilty and he was steadfast not guilty. and we tried to get everybody's impression of what happened or what they thought. >> reporter: the prosecutors wondered, could one decision by the judge have changed it all? >> to this day i believe that had either one of these juries been able to go to that scene, perhaps it

what would the jury do? and gentlemen, i understand that the jury has reached a verdict. >> it took jurors less than four hours to reach a verdict. >> we the jury find the defendant tammy casen moore guilty of kidnapping. >> guilty of kidnapping and conspiracy to kidnap. two counts. in court, tammy took it stoically. later, she was emotional. >> i told my kids if a verdict came in, i was going away. because i knew that's what it would be. >> the elvis' got the verdict they wanted but it wasn't going to bring heather back. >> it didn't change anything. people say it didn't change the big picture. it didn't change the little picture. >> you expect it to feel good to be a victory, it doesn't feel like that at all. >> heather's sister morgan looked across to the moores. >> the only thing i saw was another family getting torn apart. >> those children sitting behind their mom. >> yeah, and i have lived firsthand a family getting torn apart and i wouldn't wish that on anybody. >> tammy moore was sentenced to 30 yea

. >> it is my strong opinion the forewoman of the jury, the woman who was in charge of the jury, is totally tainted. when you take a look, how can you have a person like this? she was an anti-trump activist. >> the president, roger stone's allies, have again done an extraordinary thing which is to take aim at a specific member of the jury, the forewoman, to say she was tainted. this was an unfair process to suggest that somehow she was out to get president trump from the beginning. >> at a hearing in february, stone's attorneys argued for a new trial on the basis of social media posts by the jury forewoman. saying it showed that she was biased against stone. stone's defenders went after her record of running for office as a democrat. a fact not challenged during jury questioning. as that hearing was proceeding, president trump lashed out again. >> he uses his twitter platform as a bludgeon against his political opponents, but then more concerning against individuals, and it is hard to see how that doesn't provide an intimidation to those individuals trying to carry out their lawful function

you'll never know with the jury trial. i tried enough jury trials, you never know what's goes on. look to the streets. look at the people in the streets. in this country and other countries, look at the people reacting to this in a negative way. they say, while he is a police officer, not in this case, because in this case, it is so different and so egregious and that's why i say the first- degree, keep in mind, when they try for first, it doesn't mean the jury can bring back a second degree murder, a third, manslaughter. they can convict of a lesser included if they choose to do so. hang on that, when i was a prosecutor, i had one case that hung, 10 jurors for first degree and two for second degree. and they couldn't agree to that. we ended up with a hung jury and had to try it again. most people think is hung jury, but no, he can hang on degree, not withstanding, i'm telling with the reaction of people, take this to trial in the first degree and you have a good shot at convicting the skype because i think he should be convicted of a first-degree for what he did in this case. >>

will the jury of 12? >> i have no way of predicting how the jury will decide. i know in the walter scott case in south carolina, it was 11-1 hung jury, had to go to the federal court. i think it's entirely reasonable to expect that this will be resolved in federal court rather than state court. >> that's no answer. >> sean: we have a lot to cover tonight, thank you both. a stunning decision in the u.s. supreme court. what happened to you, john roberts? also senator tom cotton and crowds already lining up in oklahoma to see the president this weekend. we will compare that to forgetful joe. for veterans and active-duty service people. some of them are giving their lives right now, today, for the freedoms that we have here in this country. so for us, at newday to help those people at this point in time. it's a labor of love, it's a noble service, and that's what we're all about. i geh. common bird.e. ooh look! over here! something much better. there it is. peacock, included with xfinity x1. remarkable. fascinating. -very. it streams tons of your favorite shows and

for person jeffrey sylvester, grand jury farm approximately of the callers who call 911 in the city of oakland. so we can get through and so this leads to a lot of and an emergency calls this is a result as severe under staffing dispatchers the report states oakland's communication center fails to meet the cow oh yes standard for answering 95% of all emergency calls within 15 seconds jeopardizing public safety live in east oakland is what i'm experiencing here you're the report is absolutely right there are number of calls or not the respond to oakland city councilmember noel dial says 911 dispatchers being understaffed as a result of the city's budget woes, we know what the problem is. >>we just need the resources hire. i mean those the realities is there anything in the budget for 911 dispatchers. >>it is going to know what i've seen they're not looking at the curb us in this peace summit. and the answer is no. >>however guile says he will suggest revisions to the budget now that he has seen this report. >>we recognize that oakland does have a this school crisis however, it seems

will the jury of 12? >> i have no way of predicting how the jury will decide. i know in the walter scott case in south carolina, it was 11-1 hung jury, had to go to the federal court.w i think it's entirely reasonable to expect that this will be resolved in federal court ratheu than state court. >> that's no answer. >> sean: we have a lot to cover tonight, thank you both. a stunning decision in the u.s. supreme court. what happened to you, john roberts? also senator tom cotton and crowds already lining up in oklahoma to see the president this weekend. we will compare that to forgetful joe. ♪ so what's going on? i'm a talking dog. the other issue. oh... i'm scratching like crazy. you've got some allergic itch with skin inflammation. apoquel can work on that itch in as little as 4 hours, whether it's a new or chronic problem. and apoquel's treated over 7 million dogs. nice. and... the talking dog thing? is it bothering you? no... itching like a dog is bothering me. until dogs can speak for themselves, you have to. when allergic itch is a problem, ask for apoquel.

he presented the case against roger and pam to a grand jury. >> so why call the grand jury?hy not just charge them? >> we thought the grand jury was a great tool to force them to come in to talk. >> it was a secret proceeding. no defendants, no defense attorney, only prosecutors, police, some members of the mortensen family, even some of pam's co-workers, all in front of 16 jurors whose job was to decide whether or not they should charge roger and pam with kay's murder. and in just over an hour, the jury decided to indict. >> so what did that say to you? >>> well, there was enough to proceed. >>> it sort of reinforced what you were already thinking. >> it did. >> and that same day, eight months after kay mortensen was found dead in his home, roger and pam were deposited in the county jail. chris andris, the family friend who still believed they were innocent, went to roger's sister. >> and i said, julie, we need some money to hire an attorney for roger. we think pam's family can come up with money for pam but we've got to get him a separate attorney, can you help me? there's

look into how the attorneys suspects and defendants all tried to manipulate the media to sway the jury before the trial even began the series gives horrific examples of how turned a court case into a primetime special had irreversible damage in the episode big dance the trial was on live t.v. and the identity of the rape victim was accidentally blasted all over the news this lead to other victims across the country no longer want to come forward for fear of exposed another case revealed how the media idolized an unknown shooter a fourteen's he claimed were trying to mug him the newspapers called him a hero the subway vigilante and when he finally came forward the city of new york became torn by the media coverage trying to decide if the new york vigilante was a man who was sticking up for himself or were driven by racial bias the docu series also shows where the media went wrong in failing to humanize their story when a young immigrant is shot by police while standing in his own doorway the only headlines published would focus on the $41.00 shots police fired leading to his death but t

. >> bill: and let the jury have it out. >> the jury has to -- this is a case for a jury, is no way seems to me in this political climate that this prosecutor will take it upon himself not to charge this officer under the circumstances. >> bill: in that consideration -- >> he will bring to it the jury. >> bill: howard, what about that view? >> well, i think that his description of the climate is correct. what the facts are still has to come out. just the other day, the prosecutor himself made a statement that a taser could be a deadly weapon. >> well, that is true. there was a taser used against two college students a few weeks ago. brought a lot of national play. those officers in atlanta lost their jobs. i think a total of four in the end. does that factor in here in a court of law? >> absolutely. a taser can be a deadly weapon. given in climate, d.a.'s don't charge where they think they're going to end up. they charge what they think they can prove. if this district attorney's office think they can prove something more than manslaughter, they will charge that and then let the jury figu

you've got to go to a jury. one person on that jury can result in a hung jury. you can have a not guilty verdict. we've seen that happen when the evidence seemed to powerful, we've seen that happen on many occasions. it's a serious problem you have right now, isn't it? >> yeah, it is a big challenge. and, you know, it's hard for people to appreciate sometimes, because they see you know like the rodney king video, and it's like so shocking to everyone. but the simi valley jury acquitted the officers in that case. it took a federal trial to convict them of civil rights violations. and by the way, wolf, there is a parallel color of law federal investigation going on right now. but also in the walter scott case, a more recent case, that jury hung. and the state jury hung, and the feds moved forward on that one. trayvon maternirtin was not a p case, it was a quasi police case, and we all know what happened in that case. the fact is these are difficult cases. and, you know, that's why we have to work very hard and prepare very thoroughly. >> and that could take quite

it's going to have to answer in front of the jury and i know he added a manslaughter or better at least he didn't dismiss and she deserves she deserves you know to go before a jury trial and see and see what's going to happen with her you know my daughter to serve that they used to prescribe all kinds of dangerous drugs that we now know were dangerous about at the time they were doing the best they could to treat their patients and now they're blaming one of their own victims. for doing the best she could with the medical knowledge she. love you. i miss you. i miss you hear me. i believe you hear me. with any childe see. mr card. but through this through this i can spy out i can smile and say she's helping somebody else. that's what i see if you're. ok i forgive her. i figured really do you she here every day i forget i do i have to give. since that case happened dozens of american doctors have been sentenced in a court of law for over prescribing opioids. and 27 states. suing the laboratories 'd for financial losses that gurdjieff pharma company is now looking for new clients for its o

we had to. >> after a month of testimony the case went to the jury. chelsea remained his biggest supporter to the very end. >> do you think that the way that you described him as being a protector of the family, do you think that is ultimately what might have gotten him in trouble? >> he is a smart guy, no. i don't think he would ever put himself in a situation like. that he had a life ahead of him. he had no need. >> after five days of deliberations the jury reached a verdict. >> we said a prayer. >> hearts racing. game face on. >> tensions were high for everyone as the crowd filed back into the courtroom. the verdicts were read, one by one. beginning with the sons. first younger son alex. >> you have been found in the of murder in the second degree. >> alex was acquitted of the murder charge but found guilty of tampering with evidence. >> colin. >> then the oldest son, colin. >> the jury has found you guilty of murder in the second degree. >> i hear those words and i was just set back and blacked out. >> deputies led colin away in handcuffs. chelsea

who would the jury believe?ateline" continues. >>> they'd once called themselves the beaver cleaver family. close, wholesome and picture perfect. if nothing else, john franklin howard's attempted capital murder trial proved that image was as dated as a black-and-white rerun. nancy sat on the prosecution side of the courtroom surrounded by her friends and family. and frank's supporters sat across the aisle behind the defense table. as for the children, when they were in the courtroom they almost always sat on their dad's side of the aisle. >> for me i was just very, you know, focused on the goal, focused on what we're here for. and it was my dad all the way. >> reporter: the tension and stress caused by the howard children's devotion to their father was at times etched on nancy's face. >> i'm trying to -- trying to understand. you have to understand they had continual contact with their father for the past two years. and they, too, wanted to believe that their father was the same man. >> reporter: after ten days

richard recounted the story to the jury, but it seemed he was really speaking to his father.ht up with richard after court. >> it was really a good experience for me just to be able to actually finally face him, face-to-face, and be able to look him in the eyes and actually, like, you know, be able to confront him for what he's done. >> but magdi faced an even tougher confrontation from the words of his now-dead wife. ariet's testimony from the preliminary hearing in the domestic violence case had been saved. and now the prosecution read it into the court record. how important was ariet's testimony from the previous case? >> it was huge. it was as if an afternoon, she came back to life and took the stand. >> ryan would need to channel that same strength of his mother's for what came next. he took the stand with magdi just feet away, a father's eyes boared into his son. >> i really felt if he had me one on one, he would beat me down. he just wanted anything to get me to shut up. >> this time, ryan refused to keep quiet, telling the jury and his father about that terrible septe

to any other grand jury. we provided for them the hand sanitizer. everybody had masks on, and we made sure that we followed all the public health guidelines that had been presented by the cdc as well as those guidelines and justice melton's judicial order and the further guidance on grand juries. >> all total, how long did it take for them to come to this conclusion? with the charges? >> so the presentation, would you say, was about an hour and a half? >> better part of the morning, yes, ma'am. >> and then the true bill came back in less than ten minutes. >> you speak again to the family's reaction to when you called them with this coming just after that hate crime bill? >> oh, the family was ecstatic to hear that it had happened this morning. of course, with everything that's going on, just around the country, with the judicial emergency that's in place, they had no idea when some of the next steps would happen after the last preliminary hearing. so to get that phone call that we were able to call in a grand

and later as it is presented to a grand jury. as far as officers in support, listen, if 57 officers decided to resign from their positions, which to me, you don't get a vote in that. that's where i need you, that's where i put you. but they're not doing us any favors. and i agree it would have been better if they just resigned from the force. if that's what they feel, then we don't need them as police officers. in today's job climate, i guarantee you, you fire 57 people willing to take on a new job and do a very good job at it. >> and quickly, chief ramsey, we're seeing so many contrasts now. caught on videotape. and you see the world now. justice is for everyone. that videotape, the 75-year-old white man being pushed down by buffalo police officers. and then you see some officers, police leadership hugging protesters in solidarity. which is it? is this a turning point, or are these reminders that change is going to be slow if it comes at all? >> i would like to think that the majority of police officers bend toward what you've s

a court reversed the jury's decision. >> any comment, shane?gland went home on a million dollars bail paid by his dad to wait for a whole new trial. >> it's been a long time, shane. >> how does it feel to be outside? >> i don't look at it like that. i look at the long-term goal of fighting a case against me that's fake, that's false and i know i'm innocent, and so i don't worry about my feelings, creature comforts. >> why was the verdict thrown out? it had nothing to do with amy lloyd or her explosive testimony or the sting tape recorded at the airport. all that was fine. so what was the issue? the bullet that killed trent. an fbi expert had linked the fragments of that bullet found in the autopsy found like kb bullets like shane's father's house. it was bad science and they stopped using it. >> these are things we've been arguing for years, frankly, shouldn't have been admitted. >> and the court agreed with the defense. >> when this reversal happened, what was that like? >> well, it was a blow. i mean, it was a real blow. >> kind of an irony,

it will be interesting to see as you start to have juries if that thinking comes in and might juries become more willing to convict, if not on felony murder, perhaps on some of those lesser charges. >> that's a really, really good. point. great work on this. thank you for some time tonight. >> thanks so much, chris. >>> next, he took a book deal instead of taking the stand. tonight we're learning just what john bolton refused to share with the president's impeachment jurors when the nation needed to hear it. house impeachment lawyer daniel goldman on new allegations the president asked china for election help next. businesses are starting to bounce back. but what if you could do better than that? like adapt. discover. deliver, in new ways, to new customers. what if you could come back stronger? faster. better. at comcast business, we want to help you not just bounce back, but bounce forward. and now, with one of our best offers ever, we're committed to helping you do just that. get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only $29.95 a month for three months. call or g

that could hang the jury. so it is what degree of murder is it. they got to worry about that in of this case >> and the attorney general in minnesota knowledge that it is going to be in general difficult to convict a police officer of murder. even in this case he acknowledges that will be an uphill battle. >> we have to leave the conversation there. thank you, michael cardoso. >> you're welcome. stay healthy. >>> a protest led by young people is getting underway in san francisco. sky fox is over mission high school where hundreds of students as you can see in these live pictures have turned out for this youth justice event. the group plans to march to the mission police station on valencia street. well this is being organized by young people, other groups plan to take part. again, another life look at sky fox of a significant crowd that has gathered in san francisco outside of mission high school. they are going to march to the mission police station there by to call for justice for george floyd. >>> steph curry and his wife plus klay thompson too

it will be interesting to see as you start to have juries if that thinking comes in and might juries become more willing to convict if not on felony murder perhaps on some of those lesser charges. >> that's a really, really good. thank you for some time tonight. >> thanks so much, chris. >>> next, he took a book deal instead of taking the stand. tonight we're learning just what john bolton refused to share with the president's impeachment jurors when the nation needed to hear it. daniel goldman on new allegations the president asked china for election help next. any place you are. you can deposit checks from here. and you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. and pay bills from here. because your bank isn't just one place. it's virtually any place you are. just download and use the chase mobile app. visit chase.com/mobile. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when

if they don't before a jury a jury may be able to settle on something less than that.not an insignificant development that now these three other officers will be arrested and prosecutors and will stand trial and stand trial as aiders and abetters on the second degree murder charge. that's significant. >> bill: one last question here. a quick answer. the attorney in minnesota said the prosecutors are moving at lightning speed. this is monday a week ago. so we're ten days removed from the earth the of george floyd. are they moving at lightning speed? is that how you characterize it, sir? >> it guess it depends on context. yes, with regard to most ordinary investigations, it would be unusual for things to move this quickly against police officers. we're in a new environment, if it's not been apparent to everybody already. you know, the country is watching and waiting and you have rioting in the streets depending on the outcome of this. i hope this will provide some satisfaction to those protesting that this matter is being treated seriously and these four officers are goi

. >>911 calls kron four's haaziq madyun talk to the jury for person about the results.>all told the officers officer what the oakland police 911 communication center is a center in crisis that is how his annual alameda county grand jury report describes the situation one reason according to this report over 18,000 callers waited over 2 minutes for their call to be answered this chart shows 13,000 of those emergency calls were abandoned a grand jury for person jeffrey sylvester, grand jury farm approximately of the callers who call 911 in the city of oakland. so we can get through and so this leads to a lot of and an emergency calls this is a result as severe under staffing dispatchers the report states oakland's communication center fails to meet the cow oh yes standard for answering 95% of all emergency calls within 15 seconds jeopardizing public safety live east oakland is what i'm experiencing here you're the report is absolutely right there are number of calls or not the respond to oakland city councilmember noel dial says 911 dispatchers being understaffed as a res

you're right, the video is a very big boost in terms of making a jury or anyone aware of the details of the situation. thank you for the reporting. as always, have a good weekend. again, now that you've watched that video, in context, think about what your president said. choke holds, you know, when you say it it sounds so perfect, so innocent. amazin amazing. systemic racism in america is real. we should not be debating that. the debate is how do you make it go away? how does change come and from where? from whom? a microdive on somebody who looked exactly at this and has answers next. ♪ ♪ we've always put safety first. ♪ ♪ and we always will. ♪ ♪ for people. ♪ ♪ for the future. and there has never been a summer when it's mattered more. wherever you go, summer safely. get zero percent apr financing for up to five years on select models and exclusive lease offers. in an unprecedented crisis... a more than $10 billion cut to public education couldn't be worse for our schools and kids. laying off 57,000 educators, making class sizes bigger? c'mon. schools must reopen safely with resour

presenting those facts to a jury would judge at the end of the date —— jury orjudge at the date —— juryifficult and dangerous job. any policing is a very difficult and dangerousjob. any employee needs a strong contract and union to protect against an abusive employer. but we have seen police unions and contracts is a block to real reform. that is indeed a real issue and it is an issue that issue and it is an issue that is right and centre for us, the lawyers campaigning for civil rights. we know the road map, bans on racial profiling, we need officers to be disciplined and held accountable when they violate people's civil rights. too often this is made difficult by collective bargaining agreements which are really hamstring the ability to put in meaningful reform that can transform a police department and make it possible to hold officers accountable. it's time we start having conversations about police unions, their grip on the way that policing is carried out in oui’ that policing is carried out in our country is significant. and too often an impediment to progress. and of course it i

but a jury that investigated it, never saw the tape.ior investigative correspondent, drew griffin, reports. >> reporter: sterling higgins appeared high, hallucinating and paranoid last march, when police arrested him for trespassing. it's what happened next to the 37-year-olds, that resulted in another claim that a black man was killed in custody as cameras rolled. >> it shows mr. higgins stopping all movement wh the area of mr. higgins' throat. >> reporter: they are suing the county, and officers involved. accusing jailers of excessive use of force, failing to provide adequate care. the city, county and plea people deny. the video shows minute-by-minute, where he is struggling and jakers take up top. here, enhanced journey, to see one of the jailers gripping his face and neck. he said, higgins was spitting and under his hand under his chin. >> that doesn't explain why an officer would keep their hands or throat around for two additional minutes, from the point that the person stops moving. >> the video shows two others applying shackle

it did not matter again because the jury was 12 white men. why were there only 12 white men on a jury in mississippi. because tallahatchie county, which was two thirds black, did not have a single african-american voter, which does make you think about the importance of voting beyond voting itself in an era of voting suppression. so many things about the story. i am not going to show that to you. it's too hard to look at. of emmett till in his coffin. there's a photo in "the new yorker." -- [feedback] we are good question mark good? -- we are good. are we good? he wrote the photo of emmett till in his coffin, people saw that and they were converted, that the civil rights movement begins with that photo. there is an assumption there. and that is that people white saw that photo. it never appeared in the mainstream press. it was not in "look" magazine. magazine and a few other publications. it.can-americans saw john lewis, muhammad ali talked about emmett till and talked about it because of that photo, but white people did not see that picture

for person jeffrey sylvester, grand jury farm approximately of the callers who call 911 in the city of oakland. so we can get through and so this leads to a lot of and an emergency calls this is a result as severe under staffing all. >>dispatchers the report states oakland's communication center fails to meet the cow. oh yes standard for answering 95% of all emergency calls within 15 seconds jeopardizing public safety live east oakland is what i'm experiencing here you're the report is absolutely right there are number of calls or not the respond to oakland city councilmember noel dial says 911 dispatchers being understaffed as a result of the city's budget woes, we know what the problem is. >>we just need the resources hire. i mean those are the realities is there anything in the budget for 911 dispatchers. >>it is going to know what i've seen they're not looking at the curb us in this piece of it. and the answer is no. >>however guile says he will suggest revisions to the budget now that he has seen this report. >>we recognize that oakland does have a this school crisis however, i

also, the use of a grand jury.rand jury process pro sides some protection to have citizens in a group decide that there's been a crime committed and there was no grand jury used in this case. i think it's important to go through the right processes before charging someone. i also think there was fundamental difference obviously between what happened in atlanta and what happened in minneapolis. essentially kneeling on someone's neck for almost nine minutes who was already incapacitated. >> maria: very upsetting stories. do you think that there is systemic racism in this country? >> no, i don't think there's systemic -- well, i do think there's racism in the country. now, systemic in terms of the law enforcement and the police agencies, i don't think there is systemic law enforcement in those agencies. i think there may be individuals and there are individuals who may have bias and sometimes that may emerge and be map fested in some act -- manifested in some act but i don't think it's systemic. >> maria: i ask becaus

the costume was turned inside out and shown to the jury.s very clear that she sustained a trauma that caused a significant amount of b -- blood loss. >> she was therefore obviously wearing the costume when she was beaten and bloodied. the defendant, by his own account, indicated that chelsea was naked during what he claims was a consensual sexual encounter. but clearly what happened was she was beaten and bloodied first, and then that costume was forcibly removed from her. >> reporter: and all those strands of evidence, said the prosecutor, from daniel clay's lies to the dna, the broken facial bones, the blood inside the torn costume, added up to first degree murder. but daniel's defense attorney, russell smith, countered, uh-uh. his client killed chelsea, yes, but this was no murder. >> it's a tragedy that this young lady is no longer with us. but the fact that these two people got together and one of these people passed away is not proof of murder. >> reporter: he argued it was just a horrible accident caused by choking during consensual

and if this gets to a trial and a jury, in federal court, to make sure that those jurors see exactlyew griffin, thank you very much for the reporting and you're right. the video is a very big boost in terms of making a jury or anyone aware of the details of the situation. thank you for the reporting, as always. have a good weekend. and again, now that you've watched that video, in context, think about what your president said. chokeholds. you know, when you say it, it sounds so perfect. so innocent. amazing. systemic racism in america is real. we should not be debating that. the debate is how do you make it go away? how does change come? and, from where? from whom? a micro dive and somebody who looked exactly at this, and has answers. next. good morning, mr. sun. good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches! wait, what? said she's gonna need crutches. she fell pretty hard. you might want to clean that up, girl. excuse us. when owning a small business ge

that a jury will compromise, that racism is reflected in injury eve --in jury verdicts. as d.a.y office prosecuted an sister for shooting and killing a black man. the jury in my case didn't think murder was too high a channel and neither did the highest court in new york. unbeknownst to me until after the verdict it was the first of its kind in new york. george floyd was not resisting arrest. he was complying. even more egregious, he wasn't being arrested for a violent crime. but for allegedly using a counterfeit $20 bill to buy food during a pandemic. as to premade takes like intent, it can be formed in seconds. consider what was going on during the 8 minutes and 46 seconds while the officer chauvin had his knee on george's neck. that knee stayed on george's neck until after he expired. he never let up. george begged him not once or twice, but 16 times to allow him to breathe. he repeatedly and continuously pleads, i can't breathe, i can't breathe. please please. all of that was in the first five minutes. the other new police officers actually sitting on his back and legs asked

let's allow the jury to make the determination and the reasonableness and a jury could decide that too keeping with what laura said, the excellent points, of knowing, look, he wasn't on -- with the exception of the taser, which is not a deadly weapon, they patted him and there was no good. you have his license and the car, he's going to come back at some point. was it necessary to take his life. and so that is the -- and finally what charges if any should apply whether or not both officers should have charges levels against them at this point. >> let's work on your wi-fi signal so i -- so i could hear from you. i was trying to hang on your every word. and we have a former police chief dekalb, and served on obama's tosk force or policing. and you said this shooting might be lawful but awful or something to that effect. do you stand by that after several days now of analysis? >> well, yes, i do. and here is the thing. at the end of this, we're going to get a determination here from the d.a. who is going to analyze everything. he's going to analyze the law and the physical evidence that i

with the grand jury.hey will send a message to america it is not acceptable to kill people because of their race. >> his family and attorney maintain he was just a witness that filmed it. what do you think of the charges that he is facing? >> don, we think that when you look at the video just based on the objective evidence, don, you can see he was part of this lynch mob regardless of what he is trying to say now that everybody has caught them red-handed. you can't distance yourself from cutting off ahmaud arbery as he is running for his life. even though he didn't pull the trigger, he was aiding and abetting and when you are part of a robbery at a convenient store that happens to young people of color all the time, just driving the car, you are charged with felony murder. he should be charged exactly like they would charge any of our people in our community. it is about equal justice under the law in the united states of america. >> you are also working with the family of joe ocevedo who died after being

juries tend to resolve doubts in favor of the police. where there is a credibility dispute, they have a tendency to believe the police. there are many times when that credibility is not deserved or warranted in individual cases, and so that is one of the issues. the other is that, you know, there are many kind of immunities, sort of -- the police are legally authorized to use force in circumstances beyond that of ordinary citizens. all these things kind of conspire. in some cases around the country, police have a cozy relationship with people who hold political and economic power. so they look out for them. and so the net effect is that it's very difficult to hold a police accountable even when there is a violation of law. you look at the walter scott case. >> have you -- what have you told the family in this case about the chances of getting a conviction? >> well, you know what i do? i don't really lay odds on that. what i say is that we are going to prepare, we are going to organize, we are going to make sure we put on the best case we

juries tend to resolve anecdote doubts in favor of the police. where there is a credibility dispute, they have a tendency to believe the police. there are many times when that credibility is not deserved or warranted in individual cases. and so that is one of the issues. the other is, is that there are many kind of immunities, that the police are legally authorized to use force in circumstances beyond that of ordinary citizens. all of these things kind of conspire. and then of course, in some cases, around the country, the police departments have a very cozy relationship with other people, who hold political and economic power, so they look out for them, and so the net effect is that it is very difficult to hold police accountable, even when there's a violation of law. >> you think if you look -- >> what have you told the family in this case about the chances of getting a conviction? >> well, you know what i do, i don't really lay odds on that. what i say is that we are going to prepare, we are going to organize, we are going to make sure we put

they were not sitting on the juries.ryday new yorker, americans sat on the juries and made the determination that the actions, no matter how strong the evidence was, we're going to protect our officers, even over protecting the right of those black and -- >> and so professor, with about 40 seconds left, this is a national conversation, but you are truly the foremost expert on every individual incident here. what makes you keep going if you're not sure there will be any change? >> well, i tell my research assistants quite often as soon as we solve the problem, we'll move on and engage in some other research projects. there is two primary purposes to my research. one is to inform the public, and the other is to improve policing. and after 15 years of doing this work, i'm finally at the point where law enforcement agencies occasionally reach out to me, as do prosecutors' offices asking to good over statistics with them to talk about the problems and make sure they're aware of the types of police crime that are out there, an

>> just like the grand jury procedure in staten island, we have no idea why that grand jury did not indict that officer for murder. rep. johnson: it becomes just another justified killing of a black person by police in america. wouldn't it be fair if the investigation were undertaken by an independent police agency? >> i think important. it would also give community members more faith in their legal system if there was an independent investigator. rep. johnson: wouldn't it be better for the use of force be overseen by an independent prosecutor? >> without question. rep. johnson: professor butler, wouldn't it expire public confidence that the law require transparency in the investigation and that the results of the independent investigation be made available to the citizenry within a reasonable period of time, but like in thes later michael brown case? >> yes, congressman. when an officer dishonors her badge, she should receive the same process as any other criminal. rep. johnson: attorney i-4, do you believe that the justice act should policing withhold funding when the states nothich they

you are looking at a case that is likely to have a jury with relatively few people of color on it. that suggests that -- if you look at the had is tri for worse, the fact is white people on juries have a hard time finding white cops guilty of serious crimes. that's what i think is the backdrop to what the attorney general is saying. >> on the issue of derek chauvin, the police officer with his knee on george floyd's neck. if they can prove that the death occurred during the act of another felony, doesn't that also qualify as second degree murder here? they're going after the theory of he was illegally assaulting george floyd, another felony was being committed, that led to the death. >> that's felony murder, murder in the course of a different crime. frankly, i have a lot of skepticism about the ability of judges, much less juries to injures the subtle distinctions between the different degrees of crime. the recklessness, the -- the various levels of how we describe what is in the mind of criminal. you know, juries decide is this right or wrong and that's really going to be the iss

the first officer we tried in front of a jury, the jury split. some believed he was guilty, some believed he was innocent. it was a hung jury. it entitled us to then try him again. but what happened was all three of the subsequent officers elected a bench trial where they felt there was possibly more def deferential treatment. so they could do that instead of being tried before a jury. when it comes to after this case and presenting evidence, some of the hurdles they'll be up against is there will be colleagues, what some call the blue wall of silence, and they're going to have to confront their colleagues and talk against them. i think one of the things that is in the benefit of the floyd case is that there is a broad sort of understanding now and recognition that this murder was committed on camera in front of everybody to see. in the freddie gray case, we didn't have this kind of concrete sort of evidence to suggest and to determine what happened with freddie gray. >> marilyn mosby, i'm grateful for your insight and expertise on this. let's ke