justice department sort of executive level right underneath him. i mean, he's the attorney general, the number one official in the justice department, the number two official in the justice department is the deputy attorney general, the job that rod rosenstein famously had early in the trump administration. well, under ed meese, his deputy attorney general resigned in protest of having to work under somebody like ed meese. also, the head of the criminal division at the justice department resigned in protest at having to work under somebody like ed meese, who was under all of these multiple criminal investigations while still running the justice department himself. four other top officials resigned at the same time, along with those top justice department officials. all of those officials had actually conveyed a demand to the white house. they told white house chief of staff james baker that reagan needed to remove ed meese for the good of the country. needed to get him out as attorney general. get him out for the good of the country, the good of th

judge baryl howe responded to that argument today by the justice department lawyer by saying, quote, wow, okay. as i said, the department, meaning the justice department, is taking extraordinary positions in this case. when a federal judge looks at you and says, wow, really, that's your argument? beyond seeming utterly unpersuaded by what bill barr's justice department is trying to make happen here in terms of the president's immunity from all investigation, like the other federal judge who ruled against the president yesterday in the tax returns case, the case derived from the porn star hush money scandal, like that ruling in the tax case yesterday in new york, in this ruling today in d.c., this was a second federal judge in two days who not only scoffed at the justice department's arguments that the president can't be prosecuted or investigated, but this in two days was the second federal judge who went further than that, to question the long-standing justice department memos that say that a president can't be criminally charged. so if judges are now starting to go at those justice

department of justice. according to the times tonight, that gives the justice department prosecutor in charge of this investigation the power to, quote, subpoena for witness testimony and documents to impanel a grand jury, and to file criminal charges. among the things that prosecutor john durham has apparently been asking in the course of this investigation that he's been carrying out in conjunction with the attorney general william barr is whether c.i.a. officials might have somehow tricked the fbi into opening the russia investigation. tricked them. as the times notes tonight, quote, the opening of a criminal investigation is likely to raise alarms that mr. trump is using the justice department to go after his perceived enemies. mr. trump is certain to see the criminal investigation as a vindication of the years that he and his allies have spent trying to discredit the russia investigation. >>> and i mean, we have seen -- we have seen this -- from the very beginning, right, we get sally yates during the

justice department. william barr, the attorney general, was mentioned over and over again by the president in the call for which he is being impeached, call to the president of ukraine. the president repeatedly describing the attorney general on that call as the person ukraine should work were to provide him what he wanted. the attorney general, or forgive me, a person familiar with the attorney general's thinking, told the associated press soon after we all got the transcript of that call, that william barr was, quote, surprised and angry to find out that he had been mentioned so frequently by the president as a key part of this scheme that the president was trying to work out with ukraine. then the justice department, nevertheless, did have to admit that, yeah, him and durham, this prosecutor he assigned to look into the 2016 election, yeah, they have been talking to people in ukraine about this conspiracy theory that the trump campaign has tried to gin up about the democrats. despite william barr's im

he tries to get a member of his cabinet to pressure the justice department on this -- on his behalf. i mean, that's the kind of thing for which presidents can get impeached. so for this story from bloomberg to arrive tonight, when impeachment against this president is in full swing, it's just -- i mean, it's wednesday. let's see what thursday is like tomorrow this is our life now. within the past 24 hours, the trump white house sent this bizarre letter to the house of representatives declaring inpooei impeachment is unconstitutional which is amazing given it is quite literally in the constitution of the united states. if you want a little snapshot how the president's defense is going against the full steam ahead impeachment proceedings, consider the white house is arguing that impeachment is unconstitutional while the president's lawyers are simultaneously arguing in court that prosecutors aren't allowed to investigate the president at all because the only constitutional remedy to the potential crimes is impeachment. so they are saying he can't be investigated criminally. he can only

those offices made criminal referrals that the justice department should investigate. should look into whether the president had committed a crime by asking a foreign government to help him out against the democrats for his re-election campaign. those criminal referrals were made. not only did the justice department under william barr decline to bring any charges despite those criminal referrals, the way barr's justice department handled it was to refuse to even investigate the issue. i mean, usually with a serious criminal referral, particularly coming from, you know, not some partisan and not some rando but from a serious part of the government with evidence to back it up, especially when there are multiple criminal referrals on the same point, you would expect, i would think, that at least the fbi would conduct a preliminary investigation. you know, talk to some of the people involved. look at some of the evidence. under bill barr, instead, the justice department decided that they would not speak to a single witness -- a single witness and they would just from the g

rules the president couldn't be charged by the justice department so he did demurred on that question a bit and democrats have been very hungry to get that information so a major victory coming from the judge today who not only gave them access to all the materials in that report which was redacted by the president's appointee attorney general william barr before it was handed out and in addition to that information the judge also validated the impeachment inquiry itself saying that it was legitimate a major criticism from the president in the department of justice has been that the house was improperly conducting this inquiry because it had taken a formal vote the judge said that that was incorrect and she cited ample case law to make her point so again a major victory for democrats here what about the response from the white house kristen. no formal response from the white house yet or the justice department president trump is likely if history is any guide to point out that this judge 6 is an obama appointee and say that it's just another attempt by democrats to try to hurt him so

is the president using his justice department to go after perceived enemies? everything you need to know you will hear from both sides, we are digging in. pulitzer prize winner ronan farah joins us live with his new book catch and kill, our major tv network conspired to protect a big-time news anchor and influential hollywood mogul. nbc executives are refuting a claim calling him a terrorist. he will be here live to respond. a texas judge ruling in the case of a 7-year-old child who's divorced parents have been court battling over the mother's claim to transition the 7-year-old boy to a girl, the role the father has legally in his synapse life coming up. let's go to jillian turner who has late breaking news from the justice department, some viewing it is game changing. >> lots of major breaking news, we are tracking several moving parts but first off the justice department is launching a criminal inquiry into how the russia probe began in 2016. multiple sources telling fox news that attorney general william barr's investigation into how and why the fbi started

we'll ask two former members of the department of justice and the fbi. er members of the department of justice and the fbi. i get it all the time. "have you lost weight?" of course i have- ever since i started renting from national. because national lets me lose the wait at the counter... ...and choose any car in the aisle. and i don't wait when i return, thanks to drop & go. at national, i can lose the wait...and keep it off. looking good, patrick. i know. (vo) go national. go like a pro. ayou listen to advyour client's goal ofen. sending her daughter to the music school of her dreams. and you help her turn it into reality. principal. we can help you plan for that. start today at principal.com. lashmakes every lash fullyrom maybsensational.ork. our fanning brush volumizes every kind of lash... ...for a sensational full-fan effect. lash sensational. only from maybelline new york. did you know that feeling sluggish or weighed down could be signs that your digestive system isn't working at its best? taking metamucil every day can help. metamucil supports yo

i'm not saying the southern district doesn't trust other people in the department of justice but, younow, you could just decide this -- we're putting a lid on this. i think what's interesting, though, one thing that's interesting about this statement that was put out by the department of justice, is they say had we known that giuliani's associates were under investigation, we wouldn't have met with giuliani. those two things don't necessarily follow. if associates of mine, and i'm a defense attorney, are under investigation but i, you know, have nothing to do with that investigation, that doesn't -- there's no reason why i couldn't get a meeting with the department of justice. it's only if that investigation has to do with me. and remember, the southern district, the department of justice, has never officially confirmed that rudy giuliani is under investigation. so this seems to me like an implicit confirmation of that. by the statement. >> matt, your reaction to this statement that rudy giuliani's not welcome here anymore. >> yeah, well, first of all, mimi's exactly right. it was the

the justice department is investigating the justice department's role in launching into2016 investigation russian interference. attorney general william barr has expressed concerns in the past. he started an inquiry in the past into that whole genesis of that investigation because he said he feared it was politically motivated. the president has picked up on that theme. the attorney general said the justice department may have been spying on the trump campaign when it launched that investigation, so now, this, which wasn't inquiry to look into the start of the investigation, has turned into a criminal probe. it does not necessarily mean charges are forthcoming, but there is now a special prosecutor who can subpoena witnesses and get access to other information that he would not otherwise have. republicans and the justice department fighting back one inquiry with another. you, the latest from new york. a russian agent detained in the united states conspiring to influence conservative activists and infiltrate the nra has been released from a florida prison. she served most of her 18-month s

investigate the investigators. >> pierre thomas with us live outside the justice department tonight. pierre, democrats critical of attorney general william barr starting the criminal investigation into his own justice department. critics questioning the president's and barr's motives here? >> that's rit, david. some are claiming the president is using the justice department to settle scores with political opponents. some democrats are accusing barr of trying to help the president politically while offering distractions. some democrats are saying barr should recuse himself from all things ukraine. >>> a major headline this evening about a trump property. abc news has confirmed the trump family is exploring righting to sell the d.c. hotel. the company is hoping to make more than $500 million for the lease rights. >>> there's also news about the anonymous official inside the trump administration set to release a tell all book. axios reporting a resistance inside the administration and claiming to be in meetings with president trump. the book called "a warning" is due out next month. >>>

two investigations which were conducted by the same agents, the same investigators, the same justice department and say that they did blind justice? there's not a chance. >> to watch the rest of the program visit our website at booktv.org. search for andrew mccarthy or the title of his book "ball of collusion" using the box at the top of the page. we are back live at the seventh annual wisconsin book festival. here is former olympic figure skater adam rippon. [inaudible] >> one second adam. i'm going to introduce you. [laughter] my name is connor moran, the director of the wisconsin book festival. thank you all for coming to see adam rippon tonight.

it even continued during the trump justice department. >> all right. julia ainslie explaining a compensated story very well. thanks so much. meanwhile, president trump has spent the week urging republicans to, quote, get tough and fight for him. yesterday, he took to twitter to praise house republicans for being, quote, tough, smart have and understanding after a group of republican congressman stormed the secure room at the capitol where an impeachment inquiry deposition was taking place. and hours after that tweet from the president, senator lindsey graham produced a resolution slamming house democrats impeachment inquiry, five-page measure cosponsored by majority leader mitch mcconnell accuses democrats of violating due process for interviewing key witnesses behind closed doors. according to a summary released by graham's office, the resolution calls on the house to hold a floor vote that would formally initiate the impeachment inquiry as well as provide president trump with, oquote, due process to include the ability to confront his accusers, call

but the most damning is the president's own behavior in this abuse of power. >> the justice department has now decided that its review of the entire russia investigation should now be seen as a criminal probe. a criminal investigation. do you believe that the department of justice has a reasonable explanation for this? >> i think this is deeply troubling. it looks like, now, the justice department is part of the president's political operation to protect the president and not to actually speak on behalf of the american people. and that is a real problem. this is, again, a pattern of the president using the offices that belong to the american people for his political gain. and if the justice department is part of that, that raises enormous, enormous questions. >> if it is a criminal investigation, it allows john durham, the u.s. attorney in connecticut, who's in charge now of reviewing everything that happened, the fisa applications and all of that, i want allows subpoena power, grand jury power. he's highly respected, john durham, by democrats and republicans. do you have confidence in

one thing to know about justice department probe is that the justice department was weaponized to glance to political opponents. if this is something that happened really roiled the 2016 election, beginning the leaking of information about the investigation and the trump campaign, it came out in september, october of 2016 when donald trump did win the election. it ramped up into a full-blown campaign to undermine, and harm people. that's important. it tell us a little bit why the impeachment inquiry is happening now because a lot of people are scared about how don't like being held accountable for what they did. and they could cause a lot of dust to be thrown up in the air because they know the ig report is coming out and they know that bill barr and durham feel extremely scared and nervous as well. >> shannon: doesn't the same role apply? listen, everything with up impeachment inquiry has to be out there and everybody has to look at it. what about the durham reports, and people have called the ig a aboveground and he's worked under very different and administration's he's not a partisan

justice department and that jiethdic bribery case.ago offering to help the prosecutors in new york who brought these criminal charges against these two guys earlier this month. yeah. the most important stuff always comes from following the flow of money in these things, always. it's the most surprising stuff and the most important stuff. toward that end, i will tell you, tomorrow is going to be one of the biggest days we have had in the entire trump presidency when it comes to following the money. that story is flying under the radar right now because of all of this impeachment stuff, but i will tell you what it is next. you will want to see this. stay with us. through the at&t network, edge-to-edge intelligence gives you the power to see every corner of your growing business. from managing inventory... to detecting and preventing threats... to scaling up your production. giving you a nice big edge over your competition. that's the power of edge-to-edge intelligence. aleve it. with aleve pm. pain happens. the only one to combine a saf

or she oversees but also for the entire country. >> there are those in the white house and justice department can absorb these losses in lower courts because we are going to win in the end game. >> reporter: the it ministration think it has a winning hand, two justices chosen i donald trump now create a reliably conservative supreme court majority. clarence thomas seems eager to tackle the issue. he called nationwide injunctions legally and historically dubious and all but invited a legal challenge to come to the high court. when justices will decide whether the president has the authority to end the program for dreamers, the obama era directive for people brought to the us illegally as children with renewable work permit and a path to citizenship. three injunctions by federal judges income for you, new york and washington dc have blocked the president's efforts to end the dac a program and john roberts is decisive. after the president's criticism over obama judges roberts issued a rare public statement defending the integrity of his judicial colleagues. we do not have obama judges or trump j

now the justice department alleges they are criminals. rudy giuliani telling cnn today he cannot comment at this point. kaitlan collins is live at the white house. shocking. what's the word at 1600? >> reporter: they have not said a word on this so far. we've asked them for comment. nothing from the white house yet. we are getting a statement from the president's outside attorney. that's jay sekulow. he told jim acosta in a statement, quote, read the indictment. nor the candidate nor the campaign have anything to do with the scheme these guys were running. that's jay sekulow, the president's outside attorney. if you do read through this indictment as jay sekulow is telling you to do, you'll see how this is only going to up the pressure that is already facing this white house over the democrats and their calls for an impeachment inquiry, and it continued the impeachment inquiry into the president over his calls with the ukranian president and their actions there. john, we're also hearing from the pro-trump superpac these guys godonated to.

trump is using the justice department to go after his perceived enemies, you think?clear what crimes have been committed in fact, what crimes are we talking about here? william barr launched the review in may even though the inspector general has been pursuing a similar inquiry. in fact, bill barr who is becoming the president's most trusted allies is personally overseeing the investigation of the investigation right now traveling the globe in an effort to dig up proof of a conspiracy theory. critics say the attorney general has also played an active role in the president's personal defense. just a few months ago barr's justice department tried to keep the ukraine plot buried and declining to investigate the complaint. attorney general bill barr is also directly implicated by the claim remember by that whistle-blower but declined to recuse himself. for more i'm joined by joy ainsley, joshua kens ler, former counsel at the department of justice. and michael hayden. i've got some expertise but i want to start with julia. is it a wild-goose chase? is this like him going

the department of justice claims that existing law bars disclosure. to the congress of grand jury information. doj is wrong. in carrying out the weighty constitutional duty of determining whether impeachment of the president is warranted, congress need not redo the nearly two years of efforts spent on the special counsel investigation, nor do they need to risk being misled by witnesses who may have provided information to the grand jury and the special counsel that varies from what those witnesses may tell the judiciary committee. the committee's application for an order authorizing the release of certain grand jury materials related to the special counsel investigation is granted. so this is congress winning and the justice department, the position of the trump administration losing. and there's two major findings here. one is that the judge finds that the impeachment proceeding is a real thing. it's legal. it exists. she says, quote, contrary to the doj's position, an impeachment trial is, in fact, a judicial proceeding under rule 6e. the reference

scalise: the department of justice disagreed with that. mr. hoyer: under justice department rules. he was an employee and working for the justice department. he was under under the deputy attorney general of the united states. he was not an independent actor, a special prosecutor. he was an employee of the justice department. and the rules that mueller followed under the justice department is, you cannot indict a president. he said, however, the congress can take action. he said that. he said, we were the proper authority to take action in a case like this. we are doing that. he puts a lot on inquiry. investigation, inquiry, hearing. it's a fact-finding process in the pursuit of our constitutional duties to find out whether high crimes and miss demeaners have been committed -- misdemeanors have been committed by the president of the united states. it's a hearing, an investigation. call it an inquiry. the speaker said inquiry. i adopt that language. investigation, hearing. whatever the language is. mr. scalise: an impeachment inquiry is different. mr. hoyer: the substance, the subst

i think it was a pretty good thing for the justice department. think his tenure has been an unmitigated disaster for the department. >> unless you're donald trump. >> so, right. but you can't serve two masters at once. the institution of the justice department and donald trump at the same time because their interests are not consistent with one another. and as i said before there may be a sort of more innocent explanation for it. but, look, one of the things so peculiar about this situation is we don't even know what they're investigating. what we know is that it has something to do with the john durham investigation. it kind of grows out of this review of the origins of the investigation. we don't know whether it's a justice department subject that is alleged to have done something, whether it may be in some other agency. so we really don't know who's under investigation or for what. and it makes it very hard to evaluate. >> good to see you as always, thank you for being here. thank you both for being with me tonight. >>> still ahead, the preside

and so the department of justice has conceded the point. mr.has not. >> that, even though you're taking about a footnote there, you're making a very clear point. i was struck also listening to the hearing today that the judges and the attorneys seem to all agree that this is going to end up at the supreme court. if the point of law here is that simple, that the justice department says a president can be investigated, even if justice department policy says he can't be criminally charged, now the president's lawyers are saying no, no, no, he can't be investigated, either, that doesn't sound to me like such a hard point of law that i would assume that it may end up at the supreme court. >> it may well. one thing we have to watch for is how the second circuit writes its opinion. if they write a very narrow opinion and simply say this is a subpoena to the third party, the president's accounting firm, not even to the president, and we are going to uphold that, it might be something the supreme court isn't all that interested in. and so the second cir

and because of that, judge beryl howell ruled that the department of justice must turn over to congress all of the grand jury material that has been redacted in the mueller report by next wednesday. even more specifically, judge howell said, "the department of justice claims that existing law bars disclosure to the congress of grand jury information. doj is wrong." now, i should tell you, usually congress does not have a right to view grand jury material, but back in 1974, in the midst of the nixon impeachment proceedings, the court ruled that lawmakers were allowed to look at grand jury material so they could weigh in on impeachment. and so now, a lot of the stuff that we did not know from the mueller report will be turned over to the democratic-controlled house judiciary committee, pending appeal of the ruling. the decision is a big win for democrats, who have wanted to see the full mueller report since it came out, but it also boosts the legitimacy of their court claim related to the impeachment inquiry. just today, the house impeachment committee subpoenaed depositions from two offi

you know the justice department better than anybody. won't say you know william barr's thinking better than anybody. >> i kind of do. >> if it's not a campaign finance referral, what could it be? >> bribery, extortion. possibly not the referral wasn't at trump. we don't know that. it could have been at someone lower. it could be abuse of classified information and the like. the president has what is called declassification authority. >> the president himself would be immune from a charge like that. >> largely. if he used intelligence information in some way he could be charged with that. the president could be deemed a criminal. >> at this point do the referrals matter? okay. there's a lot for the justice department to start to investigate about how to handle these complaints. we're now past that. where are we in your estimation? >> we are where you started your show yesterday. you said this was a national nightmare and the rules of our democracy are being broken. one is was a crime committed? these statutes we're talking about. we're t

understand what is really happening with the policies of funding and in my case for example the justice department of legal authorities and whether it's in the national security area or on the criminal side and we've done reports for the forfeiture. that's been given to the department. we think that's what were very much trying to do. or tried to make sure that there is transparency in the government and a famous saying since the graduate of justice brand ice and the in fact in and we very much believe that as i jeez and it's critical before we became a justice effort and bob woodward and journalist do that every day. then they let the see what the public is going on. thanks >> for that. congressman chaffetz talked about how oversight functions are so important. the work that you described is an example of that and at the same time, the reality is, we have to deal with congress setting policies and in charge of the overall assessment of the accountability to perform its functions. so can you address that you can see interplay between the internal check and balance of the oversight committee and th

there's a lot of problem with clearly something in the faa and the department of justice. >> the department of justice and the faa operate as one >> the department of transportation they are subject to investigation and along with the guy he wrote to it >> i'm perplexed to the point of wondering where you've done work for boeing number two, i'm -- >> i've never gotten a nickel from them. >> let me finish my thought. if the management knew of these messages, some months ago to the point that they turned them over to thedepartment of justice, presumably the head guy, knew that those messages have been turned over to the department of justice, was aware of those messages and if he did not until yesterday hand them over to congressional investigators, isn't he then responsible for that omission? isn't he then, at least, implicitly culpable for withholding information from his chief regulator? >> no. >> why >> the reason is in a criminal investigation you have to is ask the department of justice why they didn't want this information turned over. >> do we know that we don't know whether the depar

eric serves as the assistant attorney general for the civil rights division in the department of justice. prior to that, he was a partner at the jones day law firm. here in washington d.c. he also . serves a special counsel at the equal employment opportunity commission, at the u.s. department of labor's wage and hours division and as associate , independent counsel with ken starr. he received his law degree from northwestern university. a masters of theological studies from harvard divinity school, and his undergraduate gray from princeton university. he also clerked for judge william bauer. on the seventh circuit court of appeals. after eric, we will hear from reed rubinstein. reed is the acting counsel at the department of education. before transitioning over to the department of education, he was deputy associate at the justice department. reid was a partner at the law firm of dinsmore and stoll. he also served as a senior vice president in charge of litigation. before that, he served as senior counsel at the environment technology and regulatory affairs for the u.s. chamber of comme

recognizing the surveillance and logistics problems with such a site, the department of justice and interiorpermit to the west potomac park area. ♪ although the permit prohibited camping, the mayday manual advised people to bring tents, blankets, food, and communication equipment. the list of essentials included for cutters, water bottles teargas, and dope to share with fellow demonstrators. by may 1, armies of blue denim and khaki pants streamed into potomac park. hippies and high school students, freaks with drugs an d templates. subsequent arrests showed 75% of the participants came from outside the washington area. ♪ narrator: some came for a widely publicized weekend marathon rock festival. som came to get high. some came for some action. and some came to stop the war. ♪ narrator: during the rock festival, hundreds of cases of drug overdose and excessive drinking were reported. a local unit set up to disseminate drug information quickly turned into emergency treatment center. emergency physician treated over 600 narcotics cases. by midday, police aerial surveillance indicated the crowd

in my case, for example, the justice department, the legal authorities, whether it's in the national security area or on the criminal side or the civil arena. asset forfeiture and important authority that's been given to the department. i think that's very much what we're trying to do. we're trying to make sure that there is transparency, greater transparency in government. the famous saying, a graduate of brandeis university i like to quote justice brandeis and sunlight being the best disinfectant incumbent we very much believe that as igs. i believe it's critical. he fought for that before he became a justice in his efforts, and bob woodward and journalists do it everyday in their efforts to let the public see what's going on. >> thanks for that. congressman chaffetz talked about how oversight functions are so important and the work that you describe is an example of that. and at the same time the reality is that we have to deal with congress standing policy, being in charge of the overall assessment of the accountability, of the government to perform its function. so can you addres

trump is using the justice department to go after his perceived enemies." nbc news tonight has confirmed this "times" report and tonight, james clapper, the former director of national intelligence, who oversaw the launch of this very russia investigation, reacted to this news on cnn. >> presumably, i -- i guess i'm one of those under investigation. i found the timing interesting given the increasing heat around the impeachment inquiry. >> as you remember, during the russia investigation, the president and his allies made every effort to discredit it. that goes on to this day. there's a similar effort now under way with the house democrats' impeachment investigation. republicans in congress have chosen not to focus on defending the president's actions regarding ukraine on that phone call. instead, they're attack bing the process of the inquiry. the process they followed during the benghazi hearings when hillary clinton was the takedown target. today, one of trump's fiercest allies, senate judiciary chair lindsey graham, introduced a resolution co-sponsoring

anti-trump lawyers, legal analysts who say that this is shocking that the trump administration's department of justiceould investigate political opponents from the other administration, the obama administration. completely ignoring hypocritically that it was the obama administration's department of justice that launched the investigation of an opposing party candidate donald trump. hypocrisy is endemic in washington. but i guarantee you this. it's full employment in washington right now for criminal defense attorneys, the swamp creatures scrambled to retain lawyers. these guys, and you put the pictures up there, there were other ones, these are people who didn't get a wink of sleep last night. they are probably popping a valium like candy. they are in deep trouble. >> jason: it's time to lawyer up. i want to go back to senators johnson and grassley, they renew their call on the inspector general. i think we have the quote here, but there was this text message from peter strzok, this is to lisa page. this is december 15th, leaking like mad, scorn, word, political. they are kicking into overdrive. this

what kind of power does that give the investigators from the justice department?> well, yes, so practically speaking, it's quite significant. now they can use the power of the grand jury to compel testimony, to compel evidence from witnesses. it raises the stakes as well because at the end of the day, criminal charges now could be brought. now, that's not to say that they will be. and while i, like many, find this escalation to a criminal investigation alarming, the real question at the end of the day is, will there be criminal charges, which would be just a whole other level of, you know, shock, i think, unless there's really something out there that we don't know yet, which is hard to believe given the amount of scrutiny, as you pointed out in the beginning, that's already been given to this investigation. so it gives power in the investigation, and it opens the potential for criminal charges, which is just a whole other level of serious. >> and we have a piece of an interview that david loughman, the former head of the national security division of the justice

taking giuliani first, i think that both professionals inside of the justice department and the state department would take not only a dim view of what rudy giuliani has done, but they would say that it actively hurts them and it makes it harder for them to do their jobs because they also have to interface with foreign leaders, foreign officials and other law enforcement people, and not knowing what rudy giuliani is saying makes it difficult for them to have credibility and also they can get caught flat-footed. with regard to barr, it's interesting because the attorney general is trying very hard to make the case that everything he is doing is within the letter of the law and that he is doing it for a valid reason. he wants to know if people acted unlawfully in 2016. and while he makes that claim, it's interesting, i'm starting to hear more and more from career professionals inside of the justice department that they don't understand why so much time and energy is being devoted to a review for which we already have one other investigation's looking at. we have an inspector general inv

now, but i do have a very good source for that information. >> jason: and you believe the department of justicethholding that information from you? >> i believe the department of justice is withholding aus lot f information, as is andclapper, mr. brennan, all of the people who participated in the complete set up of general michael flynn. we have found additional text messages that the government suppressed including where agent strozk, the precase for general flynn, they knew there was no logan act violation. they exonerated him completely of being an agent of russia byog the end of january, and yet, mr. comey still runs to the white house on february 14th and conjures up the entire obstruction of justice narrative against the president when flynn had been cleared of everything long before that. we also have information that these agents did manipulate the 302. which is highly unusual in and of itself. a comparison of the february 10th and february 11th 302s, which show the addition of substantial claims that were not in there before and not supported by the notes, which we also attached as exh

barr tried to make sure that the justice department would never investigate it. but these efforts at the top of the trump administration, right, three cabinet officials, including the top law enforcement official in the country, plus the vice president, and, of course, the president himself, they were all in on it. they were all part of it, they all kept it quiet or overtly tried to cover it up. the efforts to keep everybody else quiet about it, though, have failed, spectacularly. and i don't know in what form the impeachment committees are going to ultimately compile this information and report it to the rest of congress. i don't know how fast they're going to do it. i don't know how many depositions they're going to take and whether they want to get ambassador gordon sondland back under oath if it appears he may have lied or evaded the truth in his earlier sworn testimony. but the consistent narrative now told by all these people who are coming forward as witnesses to this scheme, who are defying the efforts by the white house and the state department to stop t