. >> when you think of somalia, you think of 1992, 1993, the deval kÖhler and -- the debacle there andthe reaction by the united states. what is going on now in terms of what the u.s. can or cannot do to try to help people? >> without security, food aid does not get fit through. the number of african union troops that are deployed and the all-out effort that remain to mitigate the threat of a al- shabab, which you know is another close relative of al qaeda, you know, we know there has been local leadership. the kenyans have tried to step up and make a difference. and it certainly the warehousing and particularly in kenya so many refugees shows a good neighbor policy if there ever was one. but what it all comes down to, people sometimes say, why are you americans so worried about good governance and just building of countries? the absence of it leads to other -- better chaos, loss of life, and gain warfare. -- leads to utter chaos, loss of life and the gang warfare. it has been demoralized now with that movie, but if i remember being in congress for 31 years and the secretary of defense