president kagame joins me. thanks for coming on. >> thank you. >> tell me about corruption.rruption is -- when people think about africa, this is the dominant image that comes up. when you talk to businessmen, they will often tell you this is a huge problem. how did you create a culture or is it institutions or is it laws that have made corruption decline so dramatically? >> in our case, it's not one thing that solves the problem of corruption, it's a combination of factors. first, it is education. and people have got to talk about it. we have to discuss it. we have to show how corruption will make institutions fail to serve the way they should serve the people. at the same time, we have to put institutions in place, we have to put processes of accountability in place. >> you have sent a lot of people -- the system have sent a lot of people to jail for corruption. ministers have gone to jail for corruption in rwanda. >> we have found that people have used public funds, public money for their own use rather than for the public good. definitely they have been held accountable

i'll talk to rwanda's president, paul kagame. >>> it's been graduation season in the united states and i was honored enough to be asked to provide some words of advice at two universities this year, duke and harvard, where i got my ph.d. many of you have been interested in what i said at those events so i thought i would give you a quick summary. this has been a tough year mostly everywhere, but i am less gloomy than most. i think back on the crises we have already come through. remember the fears after the financial crisis began in late 2007? in the 12 months following, the economic peak in 2008, industrial production fell as much as it did in the first year of the great depression. equity prices and global trade actually fell more. yet, no global depression followed. or remember the period after 9/11 when most experts predicted that we had entered an age of terrorism? in fact, groups like al qaeda have been battered over the past decade. why? in both those cases, human beings responded to the crisis. governments around the world cooperated and acted. when we look at our problems, eco