kagan: yeah. but we spent, we drafted so many dissents from denial and death penalty cases, i would be surprised if we didn't do 25 of them, 30 of them in a year. judge ginsburg: i must've been there. either i was completely oblivious or i was there during the interim when there were no penalty cases, 74 and 75. does that sound right? jus. kagan: yeah. judge ginsburg: thank goodness. >> chilton, where are you? how much time to we have? what do we have? >> [indiscernible] judge ginsburg: that is fine, but why don't you just tell us your favorite recollection of the year, not just in chambers but the year that you spend here? jus. kagan: somebody else start. judge engelmayer: this is an outside of chambers memory. holiday time late one day, he told us that he was going to take us out to lunch the following day at a seafood restaurant. and we get into a car. we go to a seafood restaurant in anacostia. we walked in, he is leading the way. as thurgood marshall walked into the packed dining room, people

so i'm very grateful to you, dean kagan. pardon me, justice kagan. got a promotion, didn't you? okay. i should also say that it's odd for me to be here, because i grew up in washington, d.c., a grand total of 3.4 miles away from where i am right now. that's what google maps tells me. and if i tell you that i grew up out pennsylvania avenue, south and east, across the anacostia river, you will understand that it's far from inevitable my being before you. it's an incredibly improbable journey, and i'm really glad to be here. it took a lot of help to get me here, and many of the people who helped me are in this room today and i am grateful to you. okay, so, the truth is that the origins of this lecture date back to my time at the university of texas, when i was beginning as a law professor. and i was writing a paper that touched on brown, and i wanted to cite this document, "the southern manifesto," for the proposition that it was openly and virulently racist, a naked racist, a subtly unsubtle racism. so i went and got a copy of "the southern manifesto," and i read it once and i re

so i'm very grateful to you, justice kagan.that's what google maps tells me. and if i tell you that i grew up out pennsylvania avenue, south and east, across the river, you will understand that it's far from inevitable my being before you. it's an incredible improbable journey and i'm really glad to be here. it took a lot of help to get me here and many of the people who helped me are in this room today and i am grateful to you. ok, so the truth is that the origins of this lecture date back to my time at the university of texas, when i was beginning as a law professor. and i was writing a paper that touched on brown and i wanted to cite this document, the southern manifesto, for the proposition that it was openly and the virulantly racist, and it was a victim and racism. i went and i got a copy of the southern manifesto and i read it once, and i'd read it twice, and it did not say what i thought it said. and so i thought maybe there's really something to this project and i'm going to take it up. and so i'm very grateful to the

and i think alayna kagan is trying to become more of a partner to work on things together and i haveo say his background is similar to brett kavanaugh, they knew each other and they know each other from certain activities predate play poker together at times. there is a bit of a pal ship thereto. >> does he like beer. i cannot resist. [laughter] >> i'm sorry. >> it's been a long day there was a fire alarm. [laughter] >> if you had to pick some adjectives to describe john roberts to somebody that does not watch court or go to oral arguments, how would you describe it. >> determined, focused, smart, strategizing, controlling, and real history bug, devoted to his family, always prepared. always prepared. he was an excellent oral advocate and he shows up at the bench always prepared for cases, most of them do but not all the time. he likes things to be predictable, he likes to know it's going to happen, he's not naturally spontaneous, when we heard him say in november to rebuke president trump, there are no obama, trump, bush or clinton judges, he was waiting for his moment to say that,

to my immediate left if you have not guessed it justice elena kagan. justice kagan was with justice marshall in what year. >> '87. >> seems like yesterday, after having attended princeton and then oxford and then harvard for law and serviced in judge mcvau's chambers and all of our panelists served on a court. >> it was a good court. >> it was a great court. >> and was in the white house council office and then clinton administration and then in the policy council as deputy director. couldn't she keep a job apparently. taught at university of chicago law school and then after getting tenure there moved on and settled at harvard. not very long after that became the dean of harvard law school and then couldn't keep that job either and became associate -- solicitor general first and then associate justice of the supreme court. judge paul engelmayer is judge in the southern district of new york and has been since 2011. and i should have said, elena, you came on the court in 2010 -- >> mm-hmm. >> and paul went to harvard and to harvard for law school and cl

we ever tradition the junior justice has to have a dinner and justice kagan through a fabulous dinner for me and louise. knowing that louise loves indian food and justice kagan happen to know a great indian chef and he came in to cook up a storm and it was fantastic. i had a tough road to hell when justice cavanagh came on board i have known and admired him for 40 years and i also knew he was a meet and potatoes kind of guy so dinner would be boring. so i had to do something in the entertainment department. after dinner i asked everybody to please get up and come down to the great hall of the supreme court. they probably thought it was a string quartet. and the mascots of the washington nationals are these presidents of giant foam heads. it's crazy there like 10 feet tall and wonderful assistant jessica and found out that you can rent them. [laughter] so we hired two of them as soon as they walked into the great hall i had the chief justice with the checkered flag and we had a race. i wasn't sure how that was going to go over. [laughter] but better to ask forgiveness than permission o

that time and there are interesting books available including "the schoolhouse gate" which justice kagan referenced in her opening markets. thank you all for coming tonight. we are adjourned. >> you're watching a special edition of american history tv. tonight at 8:00 eastern, the virginia museum of history and the university of okay center for study cohosted a similympos and the cases involving the forced relocation of the cherokee nation. american history tv now and over the weekend on cspan 3. >> cspan has round the clock coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. watch briefings and individuals, and interactive maps. watch on demand any time, unfiltered, at cspan.org/coronavirus. >> the supreme court found that louisiana could

were all over the bench because of my seniority, i sit next to "the chief", justin entered justice kagann the other, people know that my two sistersm not shrinking violet. i'm very active on what goes on. and i think it was a rivalry between justice scalia and justice who can ask the most questions. >> a couple of times she went. >> is seems appropriate since we began the interview talking about justice scalia that we should indent in some way there because the two of you were such house for so many decades in such unlikely, such an unlikely friendship to people from the outside, what did you love about him so much. >> he was a very funny man. we had been buddies on the d.c. circuit before he was appointed into this report. that was a three-judge bents. that was so funny i had everything that i could do to contain myself into hysterical laughter. i cannot repeat my some of them were. and characterizes the two of us in a different way that we approach. but for the institution and for our constitution and to leave you with just a small sample of this very amusing opera, scooby is opening i

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bench because of my seniority, i sit next to the chief with justice sotomayor on one side and justice kagann the other. people who have attended arguments at the court know that my two sisters-in-law are not shrinking violets. they are very active in the colloquy that goes on. in fact there was a rivalry between justice scalia and justice sotomayor on who could ask the most questions. [laughter] >> and sometimes she won. >> it seems to me appropriate since we began this interview talking about justice scalia, we should end it in some ways there because the two of you were such pals for so many decades and such unlikely -- it was such an unlikely friendship to people from the outside. why were you -- what did you love about him so much? >> he was very funny man. we had been buddies on the d.c. circuit for some years before he was appointed to the supreme court, and that was a three-judge bench. sometimes he would whisper something to me that was so funny, i had everything i could do to contain myself from bursting out into hysterical laughter. [laughter] >> the supreme court when we didn't s

now, as you know, justice kagan and i are not married. we don't have children. we've had successful careers. and i don't think you have to be unmarried and have children to have successful careers. but i do think it helped back then that she represented everything that people expected and more. >> justice ginsburg, what qualities did you see and experience with justice o'connor that helped craft her for the position of being, as evan thomas says in his book, first? and you were second. and you were third. it has got to be -- carry special burdens and a sense of obligation to the people that are out there watching and seeing you as an example, as a role model. what qualities did she bring to that role? >> sandra was responsible more than any -- probably any justice in history for the collegiality of the supreme court. that was very important to her. when she revived the tradition of having lunch together and urged her colleagues to attend, she was also a good listener and she had patience and i never saw her snap back in anger. sandra was a person who woefr came

to, retired general jack keen, some of the people from the american enterprise institute like fred kagan who were doing some thinking about that. he was not marginal to the process. but i agree with mel's judgement that he is not this looming, dangerous figure as characterized in a lot of movies. >> the movie about it is just a ridiculous movie. >> we have time for one final question. it is going to go to professor engel, one of our hosts, who i cannot turn down. >> first, i would like to say that no matter what you think of the moral movie, it's a very entertaining movie. i would like to ask a question to this panel, these historians. i would like you not to question the question. because you could. that would lead us down a far more interesting rabbit -- not interesting, far deeper rabbit hole than whether '65 or '66 or '67 is the year for iraq. the question is, when the history of the surge is written, with a do you think people will draw at the principal lesson? >> remember, you can't question the question. who wants to go first? >> i would just reiterate my basic theme. tactical suc