kara fitzpatrick, who is going to talk about her book, i think it's called the death of public schoolsd it's trying to trace the voucher movements. i think you know, she would be a great place. if you're interested in that, to look more at that. but i guess one of my points is, is vouchers is that thing and the evidence really abysmal about. the educational attainment students in those schools as well. so, i mean, just on those basis, i don't think it's like a good use of money in voucher schools. but you are taking money that i mean, most of the people in wisconsin, for example, that are taking advantage of school vouchers already had their children either, never had their children school or already had their children in private school. so it's essentially subsidizing private school. the idea early on was that it would be used to help low income kids. that's really not how it works right now. so but i think there's other mechanisms that don't work that differently. and the one that i'm pointing to in the book is around inter-district open enrollment. okay. especially with virtual scho

welcome, kara fitzpatrick. thanks so much, everyone, for coming. can you hear me okay? just to make sure, are we good? okay. i just have some notes here that are mostly like, don't forget charter schools. so just going to talk for a bit and then i hope know if people have questions, you can someone telling me i'm not quite loud enough. okay, i'll try. eric is professor voice. so i would just want to talk for a little bit about how i sort of got into the subject i had been, as eric mentioned, a local reporter, florida and i had spent about four or five years writing about school segregation. the traditional public schools in pinellas county, in particular, and a part of the focus was on these five elementary schools that essentially had been through policy almost deliberate, early resegregated, and they were under-resourced. families were fleeing these schools. they had just rampant teacher. i talked to one family where their son had had 12 teachers in something like three months. they had teachers in the middle of the school day. i mean, some of it was just unbelievable