says mary ellen karen and the children can rest a little here. karen's youngest son eric has been ill for days. he and his mother walked for eight hours. his older brother's house here and johnny also exhausted the family has been on the road for weeks. i am a single mother. the children's father was murdered that's why we decided to leave. eric can't eat i can barely drink. he started vomiting yesterday when we were on the train and he also got area. representatives from doctors without borders come to check every two days they provide care and medicine to anyone who is ill. this is what they tell karen that she has to bring her son to the clinic because he is at risk of dehydration after not eating anything for forty eight hours. he and his mother drank a lot of dirty water in recent days. the . u.n. refugee agency is also here daniel rodriguez tells people that they have a right to asylum in mexico to escape the violence in their countries this is the case for about two thirds of all refugees from central america. and it's the moment that then

one is that this is the first time that he heard about the karen mcdougal issue. listen to the tape, everyone. this is not a man shocked when mr. cohen said, we have to make payments. >> even though michael is describing to him the formation of the company and why it's being formed and how it will be financed, you believe that's a second reference? >> listen to the tapes. this is not a man shocked about karen mcdougal. he knows what they're talking about. listen to this tape. remember that karen hicks, the campaign spokesman. >> hope hicks. >> hope hicks, excuse me. denied that he knew anything about the mcdougal matter in november before the election. a lie. and here mr. trump is not surprised when mr. cohen mentions there needs to be financing, and he immediately say, "cash." he doesn't say what the transcript that you're telling me says. he says "cash," and my client has been discharged over and over again by mr. giuliani with misinformation and misstatements. for example, what we have heard over and over again is that mr. cohen is living lavishly, and no menti

donald trump's former lawyer secretly recorded him discussing payments to silence former playboy model karen mcdougal, just months before the us election. police confirm nine members of the same family were among those killed when a tourist duck boat sank during a storm in missouri. with just months left to finalize a brexit deal, the eu's chief negotiator says there is progress, but there's still work to be done. and europe's life—hunting mars rover needs a new name. could this be rover mcroverface? hello and welcome to the programme. donald trump's former lawyer michael cohen secretly recorded his client discussing payments to a former playboy model — that's according to a us media report. the tapes were reportedly discovered during an fbi raid on mr cohen's property. the new york times reports that on the recording — mr trump and mr cohen discuss paying karen mcdougal. she says she had a 10—month affair with donald trump in 2006. the tape was reportedly made two months before the election. the bbc‘s chris buckler in washington has this report. karen mcdougal was a model of hugh hefner pol

you need new buyers. >> sorry >> i'm not karen >> yes, on the margin.eed new buyers. >> it's not like the story hasn't moved, right? >> the story is more compelling. one thing i was thinking about if the new tax law happens there are more long term gains stuck in apple than any other stock in the world. i don't know what that means for it, but -- long time holders >> yeah. >> maybe some llseers there. >> all right final trade's coming up next on final trade's coming up next on "fast money. >>i don't know. there's so many opinions out there, it's hard to make sense of it all. well, victor, do you have something for him? >>check this out. td ameritrade aggregates thousands of earnings estimates into a single data point. >>much better. yeah, me too. wow, you really did a number on this thing. >>sorry about that. that's alright. i got a box of 'em. thousands of opinions. one estimate. the earnings tool from td ameritrade. at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your retail business. so that if your customer needs shoes, & h

the new york times reports that on the recording, mr trump and mr cohen discuss paying karen mcdougal. she says she had a 10—month affair with donald trump in 2006. the tape was reportedly made two months before the election. for more on this, our correspondent chris buckler joins me live from washington. give us more details to clarify what's going on. it's a complicated story but basically it's alleged karen mcdougal had an affair with donald trumpa mcdougal had an affair with donald trump a decade before he stood for the presidential election in the united states. that was into thousand six, but in 2016 she sold her story to the national enquirer. he's always denied he had that affairand he he's always denied he had that affair and he also denied that he knew anything about a payment by the national enquirer. it seems the national enquirer. it seems the national enquirer. it seems the national enquirer didn't even publish the story. it is a tabloid newspaper owned by a friend of donald trump and there were suggestions that what took place was a kind of catch and kill, that's a stat

and people were willing to pay more and the stocks were made and because they're the dividends that karen is loathed to chase which i think she's right. >> back to at&t. >> i think these guys are trading anywhere from 15% to 20% past the five-year averages and if you look at that, i think a lot of that is -- >> except for kellogg. the one pushback i have and i agree with everything you said on the positive side of kellogg. it made sense. it's not necessarily defensive, but at a 15 p.e., if it's the last couple of years running at 17 it's not that bad even though it's hitting highs impea i think there are other names out there. >> that could be a defensive stock. >> but i don't want to buy a -- >> i want to buy a stock that has more and you mentioned some of the margins and deficiencies. >> the fact that we look at it as defensive that's right up there with the dividend thing >> it is odd to me that kellogg is specifically butting up against resistance and that's a year ago old and it might push through. there might be more under the hood technically it's a tactical show at first, i don't

but karen bradley makes a good point. ina but karen bradley makes a good point. in a world with so much uncertainty over the post—brexit deal, it is sensible to prepare for oi’ deal, it is sensible to prepare for or outcomes, isn't it? ithink it's astonishing. we are months away now, two years on from the decision to move towards brexit, we are months from leaving the eu. and to be talking at this stage of what would be nationally collateral must, a no—go scenario —— be nationally collateral must, a no—go scenario —— no be nationally collateral must, a no—go scenario —— no deal scenario, says a lot about the lack of planning at the heart of our government and the fact that what we have got is planning that is dictated by the internal rankings of the conservative party rather than around the national interest. everybody who has looked at the situation of the irish border has known for a long time that this will be the single defining process that drives the way in which the uk and the eu negotiate a settlement. it isn't good enough to say we want

. —— karen dougal.eeted. .. even published. —— karen dougal. donald trump tweeted... even more inconceivable that a lawyer would ta ke inconceivable that a lawyer would take a client. totally unheard of and perhaps illegal. —— karen mcdougal. earlier, chris buchler said that michael cohen was more than just said that michael cohen was more thanjust a said that michael cohen was more than just a lawyer to mr trump and had been his fixerfor many than just a lawyer to mr trump and had been his fixer for many years. he prided himself on being able to make problems go away for donald trump. however, his business dealings are currently the subject of an investigation by the fbi. they raided his offices in april this year and they seized some documents, phones and computers and it seems as though they also took this taped conversation which dates back to 2016, a couple of months before the presidential election took place here in the us. it seems in this conversation they discuss karen mcdougal selling her sto

the new york times reports that, on the recording, mr trump and mr cohen discuss paying karen mcdougalshe says she had a ten—month affair with donald trump in 2006. the tape was reportedly made two months before the election. the bbc‘s chris buckler in washington told me more. basically, it is alleged karen mcdougal had an affair with donald trumpa mcdougal had an affair with donald trump a decade before he stood for the presidential candidacy. in 2006 she sold her story to the national enquirer. he has all was denied he has had that effect and also denied he knew anything about a payment by the national enquirer. it seems the national enquirer did not even published a story. it is a tabloid newspaper owned by a friend of bernal trump. it was used as a catch and kill, that is a statement used when a newspaper effectively buries the story. because of an agreement, that person cannot talk to anybody else about the story. michael cohen was donald trump's rawa and seen as mrfix was donald trump's rawa and seen as mr fix it. was donald trump's rawa and seen as mrfix it. —— lawyer. it was se

raid property.hen's on it trump andcu cohen d paying karen mcdougal who said she had a 10 month affair with trump in 2006. let's speak to our correspondent who joins us live from washington. chris, could you give us more etail to clarify what exact is going on here? >> it is a complicated story.it s alleged that karen mcdougal h an affair with donald trump a decade before he stood for presidential eltion. th was 2006. in 2016 she sold her sry to the nation"national enquirer." he always denied that hehaid the affair and he denied he knew anything about a payment by the "national enquirer." it seems theti "al enquirer" didn't publish the story. it is a tabloid owned by friends of donald trump and there are suggestions it was a caption kill. a lot of statements used when a publication buys sto and doesn't publish it effectivelye buhe story but a known disclosure agreement means the person can't talk about it. michael cohen is donald trump's lawyer. he was his lawyer during that period and seen as h mr. fix-it. he sorted out problems for donald trump. it seems on this tape recording that w

karen kahgan: is that mr. sutton? yes. karen kahgan: where was mr.at him initially? on the bed. karen kahgan: and what did you see mr. suontt do when you shot him? flip off the bed. karen kahgan: after you fired at mr. sutton, what did you do? proceeded to shoot in the other room. karen kahgan: and who was the person with whom you were in a plan to shoot john and susan sutton? chris sutton. karen kahgan: and what do you remember the defendant telling you about how much money you might expect to get? upwards of $100,000. keith morrison: until this moment, john sutton had been a spectator at his son's trial, his thoughts and feelings his own. but he was a victim, too. staying out of it wasn't an option for him. and now came the moment he'd both dreaded and demanded. he testified against his own son. first, about the night his world went dark. the only thing i saw was, for an instant, a snap. i didn't even see the gun. but in an instant, bam, and then next thing you knew, i woke up and i was on the floor. john sutton answered the questions as if the def

basically, it is alleged that karen mcdougal had an affair with donald trump a decade right before he presidential election here in the united states. that was in 2006 but in 2016 she sold her story to the national enquirer. he has always denied, of course, that he had that affair and he also denied that he knew anything about a payment by the national enquirer. and it seems the national enquirer did not even publish the story. it of course is a tabloid newspaper that is owned by a friend of donald trump, and there have suggestions that what took place was a kind of "catch and kill" — that is a statement that is used to talk about whenever a publication buys a story and then doesn't publish it, effectively it buries the story. but a non—disclosure agreement means that that person cannot talk about it to anyone else. michael cohen is donald trump's lawyer, he was his lawyer during that period and also seen as his "mr fix it". essentially he sorted out problems for donald trump. and it seems, on this tape recording, that was seized by fbi officers during a raid on his officers, that mic

outs one of the item -- it's involved a former playboy play mail karen mcdoogle who claims she had an affair with donald trump around 2006, around the same time that he allegedly had a relationship with stormy daniels. maggie, thanks very much for your excellent reporting. walk us through the information you're getting. >> this was a recording that was among the many, many documents and audio repocordings that wer seized from michael cohen, his hotel, his home and his office. and it is our understanding that it is a brief record iing, i thk it was early september, in which they can be heard discussing, it was a conversation between the two, they can be heard discussing the payments by ami to karen mcdoogle for the rights to her story where she claimed to have an affair with president trump before he ran for office. they never commented on that story. they claimed it was an additional payment for her silence. apparently on the audio, you can hear mr. trump saying it should be done through a check, and not by cash. what his lawyer said to us, rudy giuliani is that shows that he wasn't t

karen: steve? i completely agree. the most helpful thing would be a more constructive attitude towards north korea and the middle east. karen: i want to touch on the role of technology. coming from the west coast you , have been involved in silicon valley. the role of technology in our changing society, and what role that can change in fighting populism, or promoting positive populism, and john, what role technology and social media could play? mr. hilton: it's a great question. one thing that is happening is a dawning realization on the part of the technological leaders -- i know directly or indirectly because we are based in california -- that the tools that we have created, which were designed to empower all people, are empowering all people, including the bad as well as the good. that is something they are, just my wife is the senior executive some. for full disclosure my wife is the senior executive at , facebook. i started a tech company and i would argue that that was an example of the positive intent. the miss

karen: i want to come to this topic because we have brexit. .> we don't have brexit karen: what we do not have it, but i want to talk about it. the theme of taking power away from the eu, you made headlines by breaking with david cameron over brexit. you publicly supported brexit and he said membership in the eu makes britain ungovernable. resignationsn the --s week of course johnson what do you say of the resignations this week, and the critics who never gave coherent alternatives for the eu? talk to my american friends about the eu and brexit, there has been this assumption that the eu is basically a european version of nafta. therefore, people are mystified by brexit. equivalent ofthe american context is not nafta, but the federal government. the eu is the federal government for europe. the difference is, at least in america, the president is elected. congress is a lack it. the decision-making and eu is notng for the elected. they drive policy in the eu and the result of that, as i have experienced trying to implement an agenda, it turned out that most of the policy work in governm

her name is karen mcdougle. national "national enquirer" pa $150,000 for the apparent purpose of getting her story and then killing it, or preventing it from showing up anywhere else. trump and cohen were considering buying the rights to the story themselves from the head of the enquirer's parent company, a man named david pecker, with whom the president is close. listen to this. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend, david? so that i'm going to do that right away. i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding -- yes. it's all the stuff. all the stuff. i'm all over that. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing which will be -- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> cash. >> no, no, no. >> let me go kara. there is a discussion of, quote, "all the stuff." >> poppy, you're right, there is a lot in this tape that we are now examining. on one hand you hear cohen and trump discussing this potential pay

men's journal, karen mcdougal, men's journal, karen mc -- mostly on men's journal it's ben affleck. but it's going to be karen mcdougal apparently. a couple weeks ago the "wall street journal" checked in on that plan the paper reported back, current and former employees of publisher american media inc" said they believe karen mcdougal's planned appearance on the cover of september's issue is intended to protect the company from a federal investigation in new york. american immediate said they always planned to put her on the cover. they said it was strictly a business decision. but those unnamed staffers were not buying it. they said putting her on the cover was meant to bolster the argument they entered into the contract with her for editorial reasons rather than to benefit mr. trump's campaign. okay, now i'm interested. because that raises the question of whether or not this was an actual publishing contract, right? rather than a political expenditure to help donald trump win an election. after seeing in the "wall street journal" about the timing of the subpoena we wen back and as

cohen to karen mcdoogle. his lawyer rudy giuliani said he had on the recording apparently instructed that it be done by check, so that it was done properly, instead of cash, and that payment was apparently not made. and we have all sorts of questions about why the campaign would say they knew nothing about this when clearly donald trump neweknew very well about before the "new york times" made it public. >> but to your point there, i'm reading the rudy giuliani quote, in your article, he says in the big scheme of things, it's powerful exculpatory evidence, rudy giuliani is the president's lawyer, but he also helps to spin things. how can he say it's exculpatory and not incredibly damming. >> he's saying that he found out about the ami bill several months later. if it was a check, a check could be subpoenaed, it was not cash, so therefore he's afraid of this being learned of. it's walking a bit of a fine line there, as you correctly know. we will see what else the president has to say about this as time goes o

karen: i'm pleased by the cost.about the second half for china. 50% but it has high visibility. go little deeper into the tariffs. our they seeing impact on that from the customer point of view? those are my concerns. alix: coming up energy earnings underway. barclays head of energy markets. this is bloomberg. ♪ alix: happy monday. it feels likealix: a summer but there are -- there's lots of news. and nasdaq up futures in positive territory after the nasdaq hit a two-week low on friday. i'm watching dollar yen, also watching euro dollar. it european confidence slipping at a year low. we willar yen is where see the bank of japan drama percolate. it should mean a stronger yen. how much can japan take of that? the curve continuing to steep and. wednesday, and mirrored central, that is how the new shin can affect the curve. mnuchin can affect the curve. david: this week it is the independence turn. m a chandra is here with a recap. emma: big oil drag down the broader market. exxon and chevron missed estimates. 27% lower

it's followed right after about this payment to karen mcdougall. that could be a really crucial piece of intent evidence and an campaign finance case showing this is what they're doing with that payment to karen mcdougall. there also can be potential fraud charges here. they're talking about setting up the company. i'm guessing they didn't tell the bank when they wrote the check. >> the purpose of the llc? >> exactly. if karen mcdawgal thought she was paid for one thing rather than the other. i think this all could be evidence, contribute to. >> wow. that's a lot. that's exactly where why we wanted you. jackie i was going through my mind, the lasttime -- i don't think it's happened before. we have a senior official of the mast head of a public publication reacting to news that work to new york. that being our set of rules, what do you make early on now of the potential blow-back on the president coming morning? >> well, you've just addressed the potential legal aspects of this. i think as a political martha, there's not a lot that i see claking, be

under the laws, they could have given $2700 to silence karen macdougal. that's 50 times above the limit, that's why it is a big deal. >> rudy guiliani's tune has changed several times since the piece came out in "new york times." his statement has evolved. he said in the big steam of things, it's powerful exculpatory evidence. what he means is that in his estimation, you have a president surprised about all of this involving karen macdougal as he claims it. what do you make of what the president's counsel has to say? >> rudy guiliani has gone on national tv and lied before, i don't put a lot of stock in what he says. that's what he believes, that tapes be released. this is not just one example. there's multiple kpaexamples. there's stormy daniels payments as well. silencing women during the presidential campaign, not having that reported to the ftc which is a separate violation of campaign finance law. >> timing is key. the president saying when he learned about this, didn't learn about this who, what, when. what's your sense of when this was reported in

allegations that michael come heb secretly recorded the conversation about hush money to karen mcdougalthe former "playboy" model who a little she had an affair with mr. trump some decades ago. in the process the tweet sent out he's confirming the reporting that he was really stunned to learn about the existence of this tape. so here is what he says. the president says this. inconceivable that the government would break into a lawyer's office early in the morning. almost unheard of. even more inconceivable that a lawyer would tape a client totally unheard of and perhaps illegal. the good news is your favorite president did nothing wrong. the president appears to have a bit of a sense of humor about all this taking into account the last sentence. the fbi raid on cohen's properties in april, the fbi search warrant was approved by a federal judge. it was not a break-in as the president suggest. new york is a one-party consent state when it comes to recording a conversation. it could be accepted what cohen did was entirely legal. "the washington post" reports that the two men are heard on t

i've spoken to you about the karen mcdougal case as well. for the questioning that i want to ask you about, i want to play what i think is the key part of this conversation and then you and i will discuss this, between michael cohen and donald trump. take a listen. >> i spoke to alan weiselberg about how to set the whole thing up with the funding -- yes. and it's all the stuff. because here you never know with that company. correct. so i'm all over that. i spoke to alan about it, when it comes time for the financing. >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay. >> pay cash? >> no, no, no. >> listen, i know you represent stormy daniels. so just as an attorney tell me what you're hearing? >> well, i'm hearing these two coconspirators trying to figure out how they're going to make this payment which appears to not be unusual, frankly, don. you know, i have kind of a different take than some of the people that i've heard comment on this. when michael cohen says financing, i don't think he's referring to financing in the form of they're going to go g

that, again, what kardashian karen just brought up is the pr strategy. is that going to flow in a court of law here as manafort's defense? >> the pr strategy of this thing helps the president. and we have discussed that earlier. so it makes sense for him. but for manafort, and i'm not an attorney, but the facts seem very stacked against him. so i think he's a goner in this case. i mean, this is a documentary case. i think he's in trouble. >> it's not a pr strategy. this is a defense strategy. you're going to spend a lot of time arguing motions about how much information you can get in about the politics in this case, because your main thing is going to say that the witnesses, the investigators, are bias, right? so already you have -- you have jurors -- and by the way, picking jurors in this case is very stressful, and i think a lot of the defense is going to be very worried. picking a jury is very stressful. also, who the judge is. because the judge has a lot of power. >> because, look -- >> it's not like any of the jurors haven't heard what's going on -

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cohen and candidate donald trump were talking of paying off former playboy karen mcdougal. money above and beyond and arrangement with the company ami to buy miss mcdougal's story and kill it. this takes place two months before the election. several weeks later a few days after the election, the campaign denied any knowledge of the affair or the national deal. that's getting ahead of the story. let's start at the beginning told to me by karen mcdougal this year. >> tell me about your first date. >> i was told we are going to beverly hills dinner. he told me keith, the body guard is going to pick me up at a certain time and he did. we drove over to the beverly hills hotel and keith drove around in the back, we have to get out here because we don't want to walkthru t through the . i thought are we going to the room. >> we did have dinner but at his bungalow. we talked for a few hours and had a great time and getting to know each other and talking about his birthday and as the night ended, we were intimate. >> when you got to the beverly hill hotel and keith says we are not go

this could show this is what they're doing with that payment of karen mcdougal. there also could be potential fraud charges here. they're talking about setting up a company. i'm guessing they didn't tell the bank the truth when they actually wrote the check, if they wrote a check. >> an llc -- >> exactly. there could be potential fraud on karen mcdougal if she was scammed thinking she was being paid for one thing but really being paid for another thing. i really think there's a whole host of crimes this could be evidence of -- contribute to. >> wow, that's a lot. that's exactly why we wanted you here tonight. jackie, i was just going through my head the last time, and i don't think it's happened before, we have a senior member of an important west coast publication from the safe distance of washington reacting to news that broke in new york. that being our set of rules, what do you make early on now of the potential blow back on the president come morning? >> well, you've just addresses the potential legal aspects of this. i think as a political matter there's no

. >> karen mcdougall said she had ap affair with mr. trump in 2006. he denies that. the recording was made with michael cohen about two months before the election. >> it was one of the many times the fbi seized earlier, when mr. trump found out about the tapes, he said, quote, i can't believe michael will do this to me. jessica snyder explains what we know so far. >> reporter: michael cohen secretly recorded multiple conversations and those tapes are now in the hands of federal investigators. two months before the election, cohen reported a conversation with a payment with karen mcdougall. mcdougall claims she had a nearly year-long affair with the president right after melania gave birth to baron in 2006. >> i was attracted to him. yeah. he's a nice looking man and you know i liked his charisma. >> reporter: mcdougall said trump tried to hand her cash after the first night together. >> after we had the incident, he tried to pay me. i actually didn't know how to take that. >> did he actually try to happened you money? >> she did. >> mcdougall said she didn't take the

it also came as a surprise to karen mcdougal herself. her personal lawyer tweeted praise for the mainstream media for, quote, keeping us all informed and this news comes after cohen tweeted last night interestingly about the importance of the free press. it's the tale of the tapes. the stunning revelation that michael cohen, president trump's former personal attorney, secretly recorded conversations between them and not just once. a source familiar telling cnn when informed of one of the tapes, trump said, quote, i can't believe michael would do this to me. trump's current attorney rudy giuliani tells cnn one of the conversations taking place two months before the 2016 presidential election in the then candidate's trump tower office was about payments to former playboy model karen mcdougal saying she had an affair in 2006, an affair trump denies. >> we were together ten months before i chose to end it. >> dozens of times you were together? >> many dozens of times? >> yes. >> and you were intimate? >> yes. >> reporter: he said to pay by c

. >> boeing is the next one up up 6% in the past mother karen, what do you think of boeing, is it a trade stock or not? >> okay. >>. [ indiscernible >> let me ask one more question about the game if i were to say fade it, that's not short it that's just not long it, right >> yes >> i would fade it, i wouldn't be short -- however, i think, you know, it's a fantastic company and they seem to be hitting on all cylinders to me, it comes to valuation and plus i think they do have it here >> you look at how the end customers trade. very cyclically. the stocks trade very cyclic leigh. this stock used to be a cyclical stock. now the p-e multiple has gone one way for four years and it's in the mid to high 20s and that's too expensive for me for what i believe the cyclical conditions of the business exists it's not evident right now >> tim i disagree with everything out of karen's mouth i do disagree with the fact that i don't think the stock is necessarily as exposed to the trade front. you can wipe out the chinese portion of the group and that's 3% of the overall valuation and ridiculous cash flo

i asked karen mcdougal about it during our interview back in march. hope hicks has said catego categorically you did not have a relationship, there's no truth to this. when you heard that denial, what did you think? >> i think somebody's lying and i can tell you it's not me. it's a little hurtful, but at the same is time, i have to understand, like, if he were to tell hope hicks that he didn't do it, i guess i understand because he's trying to protect his family, his image, things like that. but it was definitely a little, like, wow, you're going to lie about that? okay. >> now, of course, it's possible that hope hicks, herself, was being lied to, but barring that, we now know that four days before the election, the campaign's chief spokesperson was lying to voters. the cohen/trump tape shows candidate trump was made aware of the "national enquirer" deal at least that september, two months before hope hicks said they knew nothing about it. keeping them honest, perhaps we should have known given team trump's chronic trouble with telling the truth. back

. >> karen mcdougal, the former playmate, these were allegedly paid to cover up an affair he had withhile married to first lady, melania trump. >> one of the writers who has broken the story from the "new york times" joins us on the phone. >> i'm going to start. what? >> right. right. lordy, there are tapes. so it was important to remember about mcdougal's case is she came forward to the "national inquirer" in the final months of the campaign, and said i had this consensual affair with donald trump, and i want to tell istory. they paid her but then never ran the story. it's what's known in the tabloid world as capture as kill. it effectively kept the story from coming out during the campaign. when "the wall street journal" broke this story days before election day, the existence of the alleged affair, the trump campaign denied everything. we don't know anything about the payment. affair never happened. well it turns out that in a conversation taped during the campaign, michael cohn and donald trump discussed possible payments. >> now, matt, let's back this up. who taped this conversat

it appears donald trump knew of this arrangement to try to silence mcdoug karen mcdougal. it appears he wanted to kill that until after the election, with the use of the word "delay." and hope hicks, who was the white house communications director, knowingly or unknowingly lied about the deal in the days before the election. she was either lied to or she actively lied when she came out with that statement. joyce, to you, legally, what kind of exposure does the president have now? >> i'm not sure that this tape changes anything dramatically. it is one piece of evidence. it is a very interesting piece of evidence. it offers a window into what the president knew, when he knew it, and what his state of mind was. before we can conclude that this definitively establishes some sort of liability or doesn't, we need a witness who can explain to us what this conversation means. what's going on? what's the context? what happened after they had this conversation? i think rather than jumping to the conclusion that this tape is the end all and the be all, we should use it as one piece o

>> well, i didn't hear any reference to karen mcdougal much less an affair with karen mcdougal on the tape. so obviously there is a lot more that preceded this and a lot more that followed it. and it's very hard from this somewhat am bbiguous tape to dr any conclusions. yes, it appears that donald trump uses the word "cash" and that is suggestive and maybe embarrassing to the president. but all the other things the president has said that have proven to be untrue, i'm not sure how all of this stacks up. legally, the only way this is a legal matter is if this was somehow done in the context of the election. and that payments were made that amounted to an illegal campaign contribution. for one thing, apparently no money was paid, at least not that we know, and i certainly didn't hear any reference to the election on the tape. so as a legal matter, i'm just not quite sure what this adds up to. >> this was shortly before the election. the timing is important as well. >> the timing is important, but to make a criminal case, you've got to prove that was exactly what was on their minds. >> k