. >> thank you members of the committee, i'm karen herbert, affiliate of the u.s. chamber of commerce, which is the nation's ladies and gentlemenest business federation. let's talk about what -- not whether coal should or should not be part of our energy mix, it is about the rule of law and whether america is a safe place for long investment. south side about the integrity of our regulatory process. it is about whether america is open for business. one of our great strengths for our country is that we hold the rule of law sa-- hundreds of businesses would be questioning if they too could have their permits retroactively invested, there's no way to actually calculate risks than with a regulatory agency that can simply change its mind at will. rerecognize a clear, transparent regulatory system is valuable to both business and the environment. but the government must honor the agreements it makes. in the case of spruce mine number one, the epa did not. to get a scale of mack tud, i would should be -- issues approximately 60,000 discharged permits annually under sectio