and karen mcdougal seemingly did not want to go the route -- she didn't want attention. in fact, abc would require her if she had signed that deal to come out and tell her story and it is just not what she wanted. and that's why the ami deal was attractive to her. >> i'm going to get in trouble because i'm supposed to let you go, but i have to ask quickly what is good about being in the overflow room, there is an angle on seeing the defendant in court, or seeing the lawyers or anything that happens between them, there are three cameras set up as i understand to feed the overflow room. one is on the witness, one is on the defense table and one is on the prosecution table, so you have a view of donald trump that, for example, ari melber would not have being in the courtroom. really quickly, your observations on donald trump today. >> sleeping. again. they have tried a number of different devices, yeah, sleeping for a lot of it. i would say they tried a number of different devices to keep trump awake, partially in response or what appears to be in response to collective pre

keith davidson was on the witness stand for a good portion of the de and he was the lawyer, both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. he was telling the jury his experience in trying to an these two hush money deals for mcdougal and stormy daniels. and the jury saw a lot of text messages that davidson head exchange with dylan howard of the national enquirer. these were the counterparties in the karen mcdougal we will deal and then also he was involved in the stormy daniels yeah. one thing that was becoming clearer as particularly as they moved into the stormy deals do are getting a sense of self some of the frustrations as they were trying to lock up this deal, davidson testified that after the access hollywood tape came out, he said that the interest in daniel stories had changed. they had very little interest, but then he said that that tape had tremendous influence in the marketability of her story. and then from there, he said that they were in negotiations with dylan howard and michael cohen. and you could see through the text messages when the deal look like it was on when it was coming off

>> kara so karen mcdougal was the last witness on the stand. >> excuse me, the testimony involving karen mcdougal was the last bit of testimony heard from david pecker was just the final 15 minutes of the day and he was teeing up this issue. they knew about her allegation of a romantic relationship with the former president and a conversation that pecker recounted having with donald trump at this point, they are still scrambling understand what the allegation is and whether she wants to go public with it or if she'd rather not. so i think what we will hear next from david pecker is he will then explain how they agreed to make this 150 the thousand dollars payment to her that ami his company did and then that there was some cold feet about it after the fact and this will then tie up the stormy daniels polls payment because there were three catch and kill deals as part of this alleged pattern that prosecutors have put out and they we've now heard testimony about the first two. stormy daniels will follow, and that will get to the center of this case he's this main allegation here, the $130,

he was supposed to pay karen mcdougal. he was supposed to pay 125,000 dollars for the life story of karen mcdougal. for whatever the reason may be, he elected not to pay it. davidecho was very angry because there was other money he that was expended on his behalf. david never got paid back for that either. >> so davidpecker has done this in other cases? >> in other circumstances, yes. not all of them had to do with women. host: that was michael cohen from 2019. help put that into context here and how that testimony might play into what you were just talking about. guest: at that testimony, it's five years ago now but it was very dramatic at the time because he had copies of the canceled checks so you could see the checks with trump's signature on it. that was quite dramatic. it was paid in monthly installments over one year. that was to be reimbursed for the things he passed along to stormy daniels for karen mcdougal. the mcdougall case was a little more complicated because it went through the national enquirer. there was

it is very important this witness to corroborate this catch and kill with karen mcdougal. ted. the doorman, miss mcdougal, the playboy model is connected to that $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. it is all connected to influence the campaign and keep this negative information away from the electorate. they call it inextricably inwoven, that's the legal term, why we're getting all this legal evidence in. >> we are going to lay it on thick for her, davidson says good, throw in an ambassadorship for me. i'm thinking isle of man. just the content of the text messages, chuck, what does that do for the prosecution? what does it potentially do for the defense? >> yeah, this is just context, it is banter, some of it is unimportant. but if you're telling the story, you ought to tell the entire story, and by the way, this is not unusual. in any criminal trial, some witnesses are relatively minor, they have limited interaction, they don't know the defendant. they never met him. never spoken to him. and some have, like michael cohen much more interaction, much more knowledge, can tes

he was supposed to pay karen mcdougal. he was supposed to pay 125,000 dollars for the life story of karen mcdougal. for whatever the reason may be, he elected not to pay it. davidecho was very angry because there was other money he that was expended on his behalf. david never got paid back for that either. >> so davidpecker has done this in other cases? >> in other circumstances, yes. not all of them had to do with women. host: that was michael cohen from 2019. help put that into context here and how that testimony might play into what you were just talking about. guest: at that testimony, it's five years ago now but it was very dramatic at the time because he had copies of the canceled checks so you could see the checks with trump's signature on it. that was quite dramatic. it was paid in monthly installments over one year. that was to be reimbursed for the things he passed along to stormy daniels for karen mcdougal. the mcdougall case was a little more complicated because it went through the national enquirer. there was

suggesting that the national enquirer killed the mcdougal story not to help donald trump, but to help karen mcdougal. defense attorney emil bove. and you were very clear on cross-examination that ms. mcdougal did not want to publish that story, right? that is correct. bove, she wanted to promote her name and brand, correct? yes. she, karen mcdougal was illegitimate celebrity at that time, right? pecker, let me say this. did she meet the celebrity category at that time? no. there were reportedly audible chuckles in the courtroom after that happened. it was not what you would call a highlight moment for the defense. in fact, to be honest from my perspective almost none of it so far has seen all that great for donald trump. maybe you don't need a compelling narrative when the job is to get jurors to believe in reasonable doubt or maybe this is what is happening when you work with an impossible client and do a better job. what does a competent defense strategy look like in this trial? is it turns out, joining me now is andrew wiseman, and anna bello, a pleasure to have you both onset. first of all, i am

one was karen mcdougal. you had her first and her last name, her email, i think there was a phone number there. it was actually put up on a screen for the court to see, and then the other information was stephanie clifford, but it didn't say stephanie clifford, all it said was "stormy," and then it had a cell phone number. it is interesting, because i think part of the reason rona graff was brought in to testify was to establish potentially for the defense that the relationship between donald trump and stormy daniels could have been about stormy daniels wanting to become a contestant on "the celebrity apprentice," that she wanted something from him. because she came to trump tower in 2007, she has written about it in her book called "full disclosure," they had a meeting, and the allegation that was left for the defense by the jury is that she was there angling to get a slot or a celebrity spot on that show, "celebrity apprentice." >> interesting. kristy, you had taught blanche to explain somewhat awkwardly t

karen mcdougal story. and when you look at the charges jeong documents here for trump, there are some hints about where this goes next david pecker ends up paying her, but at some point, he decides to not get reimbursed from trump wod and i'm curis as to why that happened. so ts is the opening salvo, but there's more to come. >> so again, you're not going to find the crime a to z found in any one paragraphf testimony, prosecutors have to build a case here. i think two things jump out at mfrom the transcriptone,his is a full nine alarm fire in trump wld & in the national enquirer in pecker'environment, they are i mean, they're pulling each other out of meetings. borderline panicking. the other thing is that a establishes a really important chain of communication because this is one of the rare instances. there's a few were david pecker has direct contact with donald trump. most of its with michael cohen. and the weakness that arthur just pointed out is, well, how do you know that michael cohen was truly act

david pecker said what they were talking about was karen mcdougal.ld trump asked how she is. and david pecker said she's fine. she's quiet. >> yeah. talk about the david pecker/trump relationship. because when i was in court, i got the sense he reveres him. today he said he still considers him a friend. >> a friend and mentor. >> and mentor. >> and there's these interactions i keep watching in court as david pecker sort of exits through this trap door in the middle of the courtroom, he goes past where donald trump is sitting, and there's been some interactions where they have acknowledged each other and smiled together. it was a very close friendship, and it was a friendship -- >> and symbiotic. >> favors both ways. something i'm sort of really interested in here, and i was hoping we would get to today. at that dinner as has been reported there were discussions at the dinner at the white house about facilitating, helping to facilitate david pecker with deals with the saudis. >> pardon? >> he went on to fly to riyadh, and there were discussions about

now, he's an attorney who represented both karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. and the reason he's really important is here is because in negotiating the deals, the hush money deals with mcdougal and stormy daniels michael cohen dealt with keith davidson. he was not dealing on the mechanics and the logistics of it with mcdaniel mcdougal and stormy daniels. so right now we're in the middle of keith davidson testifying about the negotiations that were happening between him on behalf of these clients and donald trump's camp and with other outlets now, who's next? i suspect keith davidson is going to take the rest of the day or close to the rest of the day with his testimony and cross exam, we don't know. prosecutors have been plant playing it really close to the vest. it feels like they are setting the stage for stormy daniels to take the stand at some point soon, of course, later in the trial, we're looking for at karen mcdougal. prosecutors may call home six could take the stand, and of course, the most important witness will will be michael cohen. lots to wash th

between karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. he talks about not wanting to get involved in stormy daniels. he says, i am not purchasing this tour i am not going to be involved with a porn star. as i've suddenly this is a line. he's going to draw it. i am not a bank and he says about michael cohen. michael cohen was really upset. he said that the boss would be furious at me, that i should go forward with purchasing it. he was also in other parts of his testimony, he was worried about the legal implications t lawyers, he consulted campaign finance experts he has seemed to be spooked by what he had just done for karen mcdougal and didn't want to do it again, i are represented are keith davidson. he's going to be a key witness in his trial. he's the one who negotiated the ndas with mcdougal and with stormy and the timeline is professor kim knows is crucial in any prosecution in august of 2016, keith david rohde will say this is public, that he had a meeting with dylan howard who unfortunately is not a key witness, has been brought u

who it a love affair with karen mcdougal.michael cohen who did this personally. >> he department benefit at all. i'm trying to pick up on the common sense thing. >> let me just say a cohen point right now, both sides the defense has take a call of calling him cohen instead of the first name and trying to dirty him up in a sort of opportunity toir way. even the prosecution has put in a few things about he's a challenging kind of client for that bank guy. pecker thinks he exaggerates. so the jury, i'm sure, is very curious to see this guy. and i think the da's main task, they have laid the tracks well, but they know that cohen is coming. their main task is between hicks, between pecker, and then the paperwork is to corroborate every single hole so at the end of the day, they can get up and say, look, michael cohen, first of all, you can believe him for these reasons, but even if you don't, every single piece. but i bet back in the jury room, there's a lot of questioning of who is this cohen guy going to turn out to be. >> do yo

whether they were watching karen mcdougal.was very very concerned about it. >> so i said a moment ago, and andrew weissmann points this out. the 24 million was regarding stormy daniels, not karen mcdougal, but this was george conway telling, you know, this network that he was at a dinner where he heard donald trump talking about this. could he end up testifying? i mean, is this an opening for the d.a. to call george conway? >> you know, i don't think so. what i would say is it's consistent with, you know, that he's reacting to this, but it's not really corroborative of exactly what david pecker is saying because, you know, david pecker has a direct conversation with donald trump, and as vaughn correctly said, it's important for both what it is, and it's also important because as the piece that vaughn has alluded to, which is donald trump then saying he doesn't know anything about it, you can be sure the d.a. is going to play that so that you have that sort of, you know, there's nothing better for mental to prove mens rea, the

that was want true of the karen mcdougal, but he testified he believed very much that story was true, particularly based on his own private conversations with trump who asked him on a variety of occasions, how is karen? how is she doing? that sounds like it was a question about her welfare, but it was a question about is she keeping quiet, and is she satisfied with the arrangement? the other thing that stood out to me today was when bove was trying to, again, on his recross, show that karen mcdougal's agreement had value. he said wouldn't you agree that published 65 articles from her, put her on the cover of magazines, wasn't she a celebrity in her own right? didn't her brand have value? but the problem is, david pecker knows celebrity better than anyone. if you ask someone to draw a triangle of the hierarchy of celebrity in this country, he would draw it faster than you were in beautiful mind. he said i don't put her in the category of celebrity. in other words, no, this was not a real utility to me. this was, again, to satisfy her and her dreams of relaunching her career, but as far

there is a chance that karen mcdougal could take the stand here.o you have been watching all of this, katie, what are your thoughts? at this point. to go i am of course always looking at the political side of all of this. there was an interesting poll that came out yesterday saying even if trump were convicted in the specific case, 62% of people say it would not affect their vote. 15% of people say that it would encourage them to vote for him if he were to be convicted. than about 20% of people that say invite and encourage them not to vote for him. so while we are all watching this the american people are paying attention to this very specific case. a lot of people have argued that president trump is going to be able on the campaign trail as he has to say i am a victim of this but i think the broader argument as he could say democrats are using the justice system to go after their political opponents by all of the analysis we have heard by our excellent legal analyst so far in this case, they don't yet have evidence trump knew about these payments

time executive assistant taking the graff also testified she entered contact information for karen mcdougal, a former "playboy" model who claims she had a year-long affair with trump. that she typed in two addresses, a cellphone number and an email address. >> she was hired by the trump organization in 1987. >> reporter: becoming a familiar face to tv audiences on "the apprentice" as the ever president outside his office. and today's personal assistant walking with a cane entered the man hat encourtroom passing her old boss. trump dropping his head when her name was called. her testimony was brief. all the years of record keeping, packing a punch. she kept trump's calendar and contacts and she entered information for porn star stormy daniels including her mobile phone number. and there was nor. of she testified she had a vague recollection of seeing daniels in trump tower in the reception area on the 26th floor. trump denies he had an affair with daniels. but prosecutors say she was p $130,000 to keep quiet before the election and trump falsified business records to cover it up. she also ha

courtroom that you're looking at here as keith davidson, just testified before the jury referring to karen mcdougal saying ms mcdougal alleged she had a romantic affair with donald trump. >> and that mcdougal express that the relationship was does indeed sexual in nature. we are covering all aspects of this as keith davidson, a reminder, he was the attorney who facilitated the payments to karen mcdougal in stormy daniels is now on the witness stand. we are told that trump has been passing notes to his attorneys as all of this is happening, and we have judge grosso. judge because her back with us as judge, you had been inside this courtroom everyday listening to this this testimony from these witnesses as the prosecutors have been bringing them forward, often the defense has been complaining they don't know fareed advance who these witnesses are going to be. they've a general idea i wonder what you make of the significance of what keith davidson is testifying now about karen mcdougal and what she was alleging about her affair with donald trump well, here's the thing to do. the strict rules or the co

but on the stand he revealed the president did not want to buy karen mcdougal's story telling him not to purchase it saying such scandalous stories always get out anyway and pecker said he never dealt with president trump on it directly but with his lawyer, michael cohen, when negotiating with mcdougall. pecker said he asked about lots of stories about celebrities including quashing an alleged affair of arnold schwarzenegger, tiger woods, and emmanuel ran mia among others. so when mcdougall came knocking to be paid to pecker said it was another routine celebrity sex scandal that happened to touch on his pal donald trump. we also got a preview of the trump defense strategy to attack the credibility of his former close aide and lawyer michael cohen expected to be there prosecution's star witness in a couple of weeks. trump's lawyer asked pecker all about michael cohen suggesting he is "prone to exaggeration" and he said you cannot trust anything michael cohen says as he raised that issue prosecutors objected to that. so far there has been no direct evidence the former president was actu

so pecker testified he was asked about why was karen mcdougal story bought and then killed? and here's the testimony. steinglass asked whether the reason was so that mcdougal story, her allegation of an affair did not influence the 2016 election against donald trump. david pecker said, yes, it was later david pecker testified, we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrassed or hurt that campaign prosecutors are going to say, look, the motive was campaign donald trump's team is going to say well, there was also a personal motive here for donald trump's. so look for that on cross now eventually they enter into a contract with karen mcdougal, ami, david pecker enters into a contract that donald trump himself was not part of. and david pecker said the purpose of that agreement was to disguise the true nature of the contract. they didn't want the public learning about karen mcdougal's allegations. now that brings us to sort of between chapter two and chapter three. the big thing that happens is the access hollywood tape came out and the jury's not seeing that tape,

there's no people surrounding karen mcdougal? yes, there's no question for exclusivity when you're a weekly publication and you need to hold someone from speaking to another media organization for a week's time, you're going to put them under some type of exclusivity. it could be a couple 100 dollars, it could be several thousands of dollars. i mean, we operated no differently. i mean, we were bold about the fact that we practice checkbook journalism and certainly there were individuals who called the enquirer tip line specifically because they were looking for money, but television shows would pay for video. they would pay still pay for somebody's scrapbook are still photos. it would justify sum payments, but they weren't as direct as the national enquirer and in terms of what it's become i mean, it is a shadow of its former self in terms of readership and in terms of do you think that they, do you think it will continue i mean, that's that is so hard to say. i feel a great deal of sadness over the way pecker came forward and ju

having karen mcdougal and david and dylan howard on the witness stand explaining the karen mcdougal hush money case, explaining why the national enquirer was catching and killing stories that could be bad for donald trump in the lead up to the presidential election, well, that could really help illustrate trump's intent in a very similar case, the stormy daniels case. to that end, also on the potential witness list is keith davidson. davidson was the attorney for both karen mcdougal as she negotiated her payment from the national enquirer and he was the attorney for stormy daniels, as she negotiated her payment to stay quiet. i am sure mr. davidson has plenty to say about what he believes motivated the silencing of his two clients' stories. if you recall, the reason d.a. bragg has to prove the why here is because the way he structured the charges against trump here is not just one singular crime. bragg has charged trump with a misdemeanor, the falsifying of business records, but bragg elevated that charge to a felony by alleging trump falsified those business records in service of commit

when i talked first about the agreement with karen mcdougal and ami. on cross, there is an attempt to say, well, lawyers negotiated this, even in the opening, this was blessed by lawyers. to give the jury the impression that lawyers said this is okay so donald trump must've thought it was okay. by the way, an objection that got sustained because you can't make that argument. he has no advice of counsel or presence of counsel. >> ruled out in pretrial motions. >>. now you have this agreement. the agreement, the word campaign doesn't show up once, right ? this agreement with karen mcdougal is for promotional opportunities, for her to be on the cover of the magazine, for her to go straight articles. and, he never on redirect, it was so effective from the state because they are like campaign doesn't come up anywhere. when you talked to your attorney, ami general counsel, you never mentioned michael cohen, you never mentioned the campaign, you never mentioned you were trying to help once the election. there's not but, this looks like a standard agreement fo

the story of karen mcdougall, who claims to have had a year-long affair with trump, which he denies. when he learned mcdougall was trying to sell her story in june 2016, pecker said he immediately called cohen. he said he and cohen were already talking a couple times a week, but after pecker brought up mcdougall, their calls became a lot more frequent. michael was very agitated, he told the jury. it looked like he was getting a lot of pressure. he kept on calling, and each time, he seemed more anxious. pecker said he assumed trump was asking cohen, did we hear anything yet? he told trump to buy the rights to mcguy dal's story, trump's response, i don't buy stories. when you do anything like this, i always gets out. ultimately, pecker's company paid karen mcdougall $150,000 for the rights of her stories, but never published it. pecker's testimony resumes thursday. trump today complaining he's stuck in court while president biden is out on the campaign trail. >> they're keeping me in a courtroom, that's freezing, by the way, he's out campaigning and i'm here in a courtroom sitting here

yes, karen mcdougal is a big part of this.n large part because the conduct she alleges false outside of the statute of limitations but this is going to be a big part of the story that's shows there is a whole range of conduct that this particular candidate and those around him were invested in keeping from everyone else. >> andrew, it is karen mcdougal who, in january after the election, they decide, you know what, we don't have to hold her to the nondisclosure anymore because we after the election, which is such a key element in incentives here. >> what the state needs to make sure the jury does not sort of go off on is that this was just a schema with respect to melania trump. that is the john edwards defense. they need to say this isn't just some personal thing, this is about the campaign. the fact of what he does afterwards. apparently, david is going to say into that and 17, he meets with donald trump, who thanks him for helping him win the campaign and win the election. >> that is all in the opening statement today. >> t

karen mcdougal and david . they are on the list as well as the man who was the editor in chief of the national enquirer at the time of that catch and kill scheme . dillon howard. now the hush money at the center of monday's trial is not the hush money the national enquirer paid karen mcdougal to kill her story. the hush money at the center of monday's trial is the money paid to stephanie clifford. you probably know better but the stage name stormy daniels. but the contours of these cases are very very similar. daniels like mcdougal was ready to go public with her story. and was paid to stay silent. what's more both of these payments the money for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels those payments were made in the lead up to the 2016 election. and that could be key here. because one of the things one of the essential things that district attorney alvin bragg will have to prove in the case is why donald trump did what he did. why he arrange those payments to stormy daniels. having karen mcdougal and david in dillon

karen mcdougal is a playboy. i'm ready for him to say, okay, this is what night -- i need your help with. he said, they made a decision to pay her under $150,000 and the story will never see the light of day. i am sitting there going, and what world would we not run that story? what is actually going on? what am i a part of year? it was a moment where i was like, this will end my career. >> i want to show you keith davidson describing these interactions with david pecker . >> she believed they were not fulfilling the terms of the deal and she was upset and we scheduled a meeting with ami, who we met with -- they met with david pecker, who is an incredible man. there were even further promises that were made to her at that meeting, so the situation became worse, not better, and that was really a great source of frustration for everyone involved on our side. >> what we know now, what david pecker allegedly admitted to when prosecutors were talking with michael cohen to protect the president, there was a phrase he u

that's how they were structuring karen mcdougal's deal.out to los angeles to buy this story, to bury it. there was no mention of fitness columns, that came to late later, i was the one that was instructed, we now need to come up with these fitness columns. i was assigned a ghost writer. the first column ran and karen mcdougal called david pecker in a rage, because there was something in the column about vitamin c, and so we needed to get a new ghost writer. >> i mean lord, she does look good. we do have, obviously, there's no sound coming out of court, but i do want to read for folks this exchange. pecker didn't want to purchase the stormy daniels story. that was part of the -- one of the bombshells, if you will, this past week in court from thursday. pecker says michael cohen asked me to pay for this story to purchase it. i said i'm not purchasing this story. i'm not going to be involved with a porn star. we're not paying any more monies. the prosecution said how did michael cohen take that? pecker, he was the boss, he said he was infuria

that's largely about karen mcdougal.ng reference to stormy daniels in the story, but that is, that is a story that was published in the aftermath of access hollywood right before the election that was really back here, mcdougal now, the prosecutor is getting back into the notion of stormy daniels, and that is why so much of david pecker's testimony is about mcdougal or the doorman because that's what ami was involved with. i actually the stormy daniels thing, as we know, pecker said he wanted no part of that. is magazine is at walmart and that will look so good or what have you. and then this is on michael cohen and donald trump dissolve. and so they want to i guess the prosecutors now, if you look here, pecker says of daniel, sorry, that he wasn't going to print it or buy it or be associated with they wanted him to reassess sir that this issue, stormy daniels, which is what all the paperwork in this case is about those payments. that squarely in donald trump's lap via michael cohen were standing by to get more informati

>> that david pecker was killed in the catch and kill stories including karen mcdougal and other catch and kill stories, that he was at meetings when these were discussed, but when it came to stormy daniels, he backed out, for a reason that actually was, you know, really silly in that he was never reimbursed or never paid back and he didn't want to get involved with a porn star according to his own testimony because of contracts he had with walmart. that's why the people are calling him. what the defense is trying to do in cross examination is create separation. okay, there may have been this karen mcdougal arrangement there may have been this 2015 meeting, there may have been this catch and kill with a doorman, but you were not involved in the whole stormy daniels saga, so therefore you don't have valuable information about that. look, there are not a lot of options for cross examination. i've been thinking about it entirely during his direct testimony. where would the defense go? and they can only go to the classics, his ability to remember, his moative in that he has an agreement or

so starting with karen mcdougal could, because i think this is actually fundamentally different. we were just talking about from stormy daniels. this was longer term, this was something that trump i mean, he's still denies actually the karen mcdougal relationship. what are you expecting from her? >> this one's more complicated. she has not been antagonistic about donald trump. she still speaks with him with some affection she described in her interview with anderson cooper, she described that they were in love. it was a very an actual relationship and that she ended it because she felt very bad about it being an affair. she's a religious woman and i think it's gonna be very different for him to see her in that courtroom versus stormy daniels or that was a more surface level? bowl, a fair it was a transactional. >> they were talking about a roll on celebrity apprentice for stormy daniels. it was not an emotional affair where he talked about having a child and karen mcdougal in her account, i think it's much more emotional thing than the stormy daniels that's really fascinating. i

and stormy daniels is that karen mcdougal hasn't been really out there in the news. she says they had a year long relationship that they exchanged. i love you's and i don't care who you are. that's never going to be funny to hear. no, no. >> it's humiliating for sure. >> obviously, we don't know how closely she is following this, but trump did complain on his way into court today, stephanie, about having to be there instead of being with melania trump for her birthday. here's what he said this morning. >> i want to start by wishing my life were you happy birthday? >> i should be with her, but i'm the courthouse for rnc. >> so far. >> i'll be going there this evening absolutely. >> case furnishes out with this horrible unconstitutional okay now, you also posted a two-minute video on social media for her birthday, highlighting her time as first lady, and that is what really stood out to you today's stephanie, how come you know, i rolled my eyes when he did that, it was it was so beyond inappropriate, but yet so donald trump that on the way into a trial where they are t

trump that was going to extend karen mcdougal's contract? it was for six months. the contract was up and i felt that from the last lunch that i had with her that we had fulfilled some of the obligations that she was looking for, specifically her beauty products and media training. so i was going to send her a new contract he thought that was on our original conversation. he thought that that was also a bad idea. so when i received the second call, when i got the call back and hope hicks and huckabee sanders, huckabee that sarah sanders when she was on the call, i explained to them to the two of them why i was going to extend the agreement and both of them said they thought it was a good idea. prosecutor asked, what was the reason that you gave for why you wanted to extend karen mcdougal's contract. pecker says, i wanted to extend or contract so she would not go out, not give any further interviews, are talked to the press, or say negative comments about american media or mr. trump? now you said that when you had your individual conversation with mr. trump, he was

karen mcdougal, and david pecker. they are on the ligs as well as the man the editor-in-chief at the national enquirer at the time thaf otcatch and kill scheme, dylan howard. it's not the hush money the national enquirer paid karen mcdougalen to kill her story. the hushll money at the center monday's trial is the money paid to adult film star stephanie clifford, when you probably knou better by the stage name stormy daniels. but the contour of these cases are very, very similar. daniels like mcdougal was ready to goga public with her story a was paid to stay silent. what's moreo both of these payments, the money for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels, those payments were made in the lead-upen to the 2016 election, and that could be key here. because one of the things -- one of the central things that district attorney alvin bragg will have toal prove in his cai why donald trump did what me did, why did he arrange those payments to stormy daniels? having karen mcdougal and dylan and explaining why the national enquirer

and karen mcdougal story. so then trump's lawyer saying confronting with him some notes that an fbi agent had taken after an interview, david pecker gave to them. and in those fbi notes the notes say the david pecker didn't recall any gratitude from donald trump's, so he was challenging on on that asking him about that david pecker says i know what i remember. this is going back to 2018. i didn't recall back from what i'm saying here is that during the fbi investigation, i know what i said yesterday happens, so i can't reconcile what the fbi interview was. if someone made a mistake or not beauvais says, so you can't reconcile because what you said yesterday is inconsistent with what's in this report, correct? pecker says yes, but i wouldn't be responsible for this report, but they said i understand. so you're suggesting that the fbi made a mistake here. pecker said, i know what the truth is. i'm not i can't state what the woods here why this was written, this way. i know exactly what was sent to me so interest

wanting more stories to come out here hearing pecker's telling of how donald trump checked in on karen mcdougal with him. i thought was really interesting today. i mean, starting with the initial before the deal was done, before he signed ami sign the deal with mcdougal. but when it was in the works, apparently there was a phone call between in pecker and trump. pecker's out, new jersey, get let me interrupt you. >> i'm going to bring up because i got a graphic and then i'm going to come right back to you. okay. so this has to do with it when i got on the phone, this is david pecker talking when i got on the phone, mr. trump said to me, i spoke i spoke to michael cohen. karen is a nice girl, by the way, just to interrupt here. david pecker confirming than in 2015 and 2016, michael cohen was always clear that he was trump's personal attorney. he was not working for the campaign. we'll see how significant that is anyway. >> so pecker says trump gets on the phone with them, says i spoke to michael, karen's a nice girl, pecker testifies. >> i believe that when mr. trump said that she was a nice gir

so up you have stormy daniels, you have karen mcdougal. we saw of key players.he women who were involved and the details could be even more revealing in terms of trump's actual involvement. we hear that the defense will site stormy daniels does not know anything about what went wrong in terms of the business records, but stormy daniels will still be relying kind of her interactions with the former president and i think that will be very uncomfortable for trump as he continues to have to sit through weeks of these cases and these stories that are being laid out for the jury to hear. >> let's discuss the supreme court hearing arguments on thursday on trump's claims of presidential immunity. it appears some justices believe at least some immunity is necessary. to the questions indicate to you how they are likely to rule? >> alex, they did and the indicated that to me indirectly because of some of the things we heard the justices say. is not related to the issue before them, but i thought it was amazing that justice alito actually said, isn't it true that the grand

the karen mcdougal story is very similar to the stormy daniels story. it is money paid for silence for women who were allegedly involved with trump at trump's behalf asked the idea that trump was trying to keep information from the voters on the eve of, on the eve of the election by, by paying this money or having his allies at the national enquirer pay pay karen mcdougal. i also thought it was appropriate to keep the access hollywood tape out. that is the case. that is a tape about non consensual sexual contact the donald trump saying what everyone knows he said about what he could do with women. >> that's >> not what this case is about no one to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, both it claim that this was consensual sex, and i thought keeping that away from the jury, even though they probably already know about it, wasn't appropriate decision for trump's benefit caitlin also the trump team made a request of the judge regarding another hearing in washington, dc next week? >> yeah. it just shows you how all of trump's legal issues are kind of collidin

karen mcdougal, the former playboy play man, foreign president, allegedly had an affair with, will be allowed to testify and other hand, the access hollywood it would tape which everybody knows about cant be played for the jury. >> i thought those were very reasonable conclusions by the judge the karen mcdougal story is very similar to the stormy daniels story. it is money paid for silence for women who allegedly involved with trump at trump's behalf the idea that trump was trying to keep information from the voters on the eve of, on the eve of the election. bye, by paying this money or having his allies at the national enquirer pay pay karen mcdougal. >> i also thought >> it was appropriate to keep the access hollywood tape out. that is a k he's that is a tape about non-consensual sexual contact. the donald trump saying what everyone knows he said about what he could do with women. >> that's not what this >> case is about. no one stormy daniels and karen mcdougal both it claim that this was consensual sex, and i thought keeping that away from the jury, even though they probably alrea

i mean, the he had an independent business relationship with karen mcdougal. she was a columnist for one of his outdoor fitness magazines he i don't know why he wanted to do that, and obviously, trump did know why either and he was and you sent me off donald trump. what's up and down that well, it's not the first time. >> what i think is also significant about these passages is that it shows direct contact between david pecker and donald trump and a lot of pecker's testimony was going through michael cohen, the vast majority he was communications about karen mcdougal and stormy daniels. we're through michael cohen, but as prosecutor, you want to be able to point to these exact excerpts and say donald trump himself knew what was going on. it was very invested and not just conversation der conversations, but conversations and statements saying like we have an agreement with stormy daniels according to pecker, which gets to donald trump's state of mind that he knew there for these agreements in place because they were for his benefit. and that's the thing. is tha

vaughn, trump's lawyer has been asking pecker about his negotiations with karen mcdougal.they getting at? >> reporter: this is all part of the effort here from the defense team to make the case to the jury that this was a long-standing practice on the part of the "national enquirer" to buy up stories and workshop them, make sure to see whether they were true or not, but also to put out other negative stories about other celebrities or politicians medical record to help boost sales because they are a company that is trying to drive publications sales and make money, and when it comes specifically to karen mcdougal, there is an exchange here where emil bove, donald trump's attorney asks her, quote, when you first learned about this, you understand ms. mcdougal did not want to publish. what she wanted was to restart her career, and ami could help her, to which david pecker responded, yes. what they are trying to lay out is that david pecker was not initially engaging with karen mcdougal in an effort to, you know, keep her from going public because she never intended to actual

this is going to bring us back to karen mcdougal, who will also come in. that might have been one of the key rulings in this case judge merchan's rulings that mcdougal would come in, that the access hollywood, if not the tape, which he of course, kept out because it was too prejudicial but the content and substance of those messages, putting all of that in front of the jury at the beginning allows the prosecution to tell the whole story of the false business records in its proper context. so i think it's a great opening move by the prosecution when you have a a a witness in like michael cohen, who has clearly lied publicly before they've said, look, he made mistakes in the past. >> how does the prosecution tried to protect their witness, bolster his testimony? obviously, they want to bring in what other evidence they have that my backup. anything he says. >> but how do you deal with a witness who's a prosecution witness who has such a checkered past in the scheme of prosecution witnesses with checkered past asked michael cohen is a veritable angel prosecuto

at one point pecker asked michael cohen who will pay me back for the $150,000 for karen mcdougal? and cohan said don't worry, the boss will take care of a. where do you think we are with where we have heard so far? >> pecker said he and trump had some sort of gentlemen's agreement on how this would w work. again this was a mutually beneficial relationship according to pecker. donald trump apparently sold the most magazines from them than anyone else and he said something like 80% of his "national enquirer" readers wanted donald trump to win the presidency if he ran so he saw this as an opportunity when donald trump decided to run to both help his business but also help the former president's campaign as well. as far as what we have learned so far we have learned a lot about the cd feelings of tabloid culture in new york city. we have not learned anything with respect to the crime at issue. i think the state is attempting to hone in on this vague new york election law that's says conspiring to influence an election through unlawful means, that's what they are trying to get them on.

en la torre trump. >> por cierto, que ella admitio que en su agenda tenia los t telefonos de karen mcdougalldaniels. >> de esta ultima, dice haberla visto en la torre trump que penso que ella estaba au audicionando se trataba de julio. >> muchas gracias. >> en el programa de radio howard stern aseguro que esta feliz esta feliz, esa fue su palabra, feliz de debatir con su rival republicano. >> previamente habia habia sido ambiguo, habia dicho que lo haria dependiendo de la conducta del expresidente. >> por su parte, trump respondio ya en la red food que esta listo para debatir en donde sea, a cualquier hora, en cualquier lugar. >> y bien frente a las e elecciones de novie hombre, una encuesta de nbc news muestra las tres principales preocupaciones de los votantes respecto a biden y a trump. >> un 23% dijo que le preocupa de la salud mental y fisica de biden. >> un 17% le preocupa la politica del presidente en la frontera sur a un 16% inflacion. >> respecto a trump, la principal preocupacion son los procesos judiciales que enfrenta. >> un 14% se opone por haber nombrado jueces en la corte supr

paying out a door man, karen mcdougal. we are not paying out any more moneys. pecker said cohen was upset by that and said the boss would be furious with me. as we know michael cohen ends up using his money to pay stormy daniels $130,000 from his own funds to keep quiet the story stays quiet ahead of the election. the ongoing criminal election interference hush money trial of the ex-president is where we begin with our favorite reporters and you should note it's still happening and we have the developments up on your screen. close watchers of this show do not usually have a computer on the set, it could prove distracting which i'll slam it shut but we are monitoring this in real time and we have the help of our most favorite reporters and friends, nbc news correspondent vaughn hill-yard is outside of the courtroom, host of the podcast, special correspondent for "vanity fair" molly john is at the table with us and we are working him into the ground, i know, we need him desperately former top official at the department of justice, msnbc legal analyst andrew weiss

karen mcdougal . he wanted to say, even if this is a misdemeanor or falsification of business records, the next crime does not exist. it is not an election crime because this is about protecting melania, not to influence an election. david pecker said melania was not even mentioned. this was all about helpingselection. finally, wanted to make this case about michael cohen, who has some problems because he was convicted of felonies, including lying, but he was lying for president donald . but here, you have david providing cooperation for what michael cohen is going to testify to. it is one thing to say you are a liar. it is another thing to say you are a liar, but everyone seems to cooperate your story. >> i got that hogan's hero analogy with the sergeant. one of the central themes of david testimony was the arrangement he made with president donald to have the parent company of the national mcdougal pay playboy model karen mcdougal $150,000 for her story, alleging she had a 10 month long affair with