"national enquirer" david pecker's testimony about the phone call he had with trump regarding karen mcdougal. pandemicer on mcdougal's life rights and pecker and michael cohen's testimony about the 2015 trump tower meeting. as a whole as you look at that, katie, does that give you some clues as to how at least some of the jurors are seeing this or an area that they may be concerned about? >> so it's important to remember these are 12 people that never knew each other before they sat together for the last six plus weeks. they synthesize information differently. they have different backgrounds, either educationally or when it comes to their jobs, and so they may all be looking at it through a different lens, but something that catherine said yesterday and again right now is important to emphasize, and harry touched upon it as well as kristy, that 2015 trump tower meeting, donald trump was principally involved in that conversation. this was not a, hey, boss, this is michael telling you what's going on. this is donald trump with david pecker with cohen on the sidelines. cohen was a proxy, rememb

the karen mcdougal breaks november 7th.timeline that hope hicks pulled back the curtain on. >> reporter: right. she acknowledged, nicolle, that on october 7th directly that the conversations ended up beginning about concern about women voters and cratering support here and, of course, if you're looking at potentially more women's stories -- allegations coming forward as they were in real time during those weeks there, it was of the most concern for this trump operation. that's why the prosecution brought forward multiple statements that trump made himself on his social media account tweeting out, in part saying, can you believe i lost a large number of women voters based on events that never happened? another tweet that these phony stories have impact. they were used by the prosecution to show the jury that donald trump was acknowledging these stories and access hollywood tape hurt him politically. that's why in those closing weeks there was not only concern about him and these stories, but an effort to turn the attention t

did he know michael cohen was paying off stormy daniels and karen mcdougal that he subsequently thend michael cohen back for and establishing that intent, right? and some of those rapid fire questions at hope hicks i thought were fascinating. did he feel as if in the lead up to the election after the access hollywood tape was released that he was going to lose votes with women? were there reactions from other republicans? what were those reactions? did he feel as if it was going to affect the election come november after the release of this access hollywood tape, right? establishing the intent, the desperation, establishing the desperation of a man running for president of the united states who knew all of the ongoings inside of his organization, all of the ongoings inside of his campaign as hope hicks talked about. why would he not then subsequently when this information came out, reaching out, hope hicks talking about that, the reach out was to hope hicks herself about the karen mcdougal story. she subsequently reached out to michael cohen as well, michael cohen denying it, david p

trump that was locked in the door including the karen mcdougal story. hoffinger, what did you understand mr. trump to mean by pay with cash? and cohen to pay in green, which would obviously be one way to avoid any type of a paper transaction. but that's not what i thought was the best way to do it, and then morning recess. >> and we know from other conversations that michael cohen wanted nothing to do with this being a cash transaction. >> correct, and i think that that speaks to misty's earlier point, which is at the end of the day, whether you think that he's a good lawyer or a bad lawyer, he's still a lawyer, and he still understood that in some ways there would be a paper trail that would be beneficial to him in terms of these recordings, and in some ways that it'd be protective of him. >> he needed evidence. >> he needed evidence, and in some cases you don't want evidence, which is why you don't have a paper trail, which is demonstrative of michael cohen's frame of mind in terms of who he is. but the weisselberg piece is something that's interestin

he recounts telling donald trump about karen mcdougal.went into the office, he knocked, he got in, he said i have to talk to you, told him what i just learned, i asked him if he knew who karen mcdougal was. knew anything about this story. his response to me was, she's really beautiful. cohen, i said, okay, there's a story that's right now being shopped. and so there is an objection just after this moment, what we were just discussing. it's like their ears were burning. >> sustained. >> objection, sustained. and so then what did you do? we had to acquire the story so i reached out to pecker. i want to go back to former supreme court justice leslie snyder. judge snyder, thanks for joining us. >> good morning. >> is this testimony going about how you would expect? >> it is going how i would expect and i think the judge because i look at everything from the judge's perspective, is exactly the easy part of the trial. he's paying careful attention, he's going to have to rule on objections but nothing really dramatic has happened because we have

new alleged gag order violations by trump, and soon the former lawyer for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal will be back on the stand and we have the dramatic highlights from keith davidson's testimony so far. >>> plus, breaking news and traumatic images on the campus of ucla as police move in to disband a protest encampment. we'll take you there live. it is 10:00 eastern, i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. let's get right to that breaking news at a courthouse in manhattan, donald trump's hush money trial resuming just minutes ago and up first this morning, a hearing on four new alleged gag order violations by the former president, and soon we're expecting keith davidson, former lawyer for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal to return to the stand. our yasmin vossoughian is outside the courthouse and here with me, msnbc's katie phang, criminal defense attorney and former manhattan prosecutor jeremy salan and former assistant attorney general for new york, tristan snell, the author of the book "taking down trump." yasmin, what's happening so far with this gag order hearing? >> reporter:

colangelo what context did you first hear the name karen mcdougal? hicks i received an inquiry from a reporter at the wall street journal. colangelo who is the reporter you heard from? hicks, rothfeld. can you go back and tell us what that was like? >> well we had been chasing this story actually for about a month at the journal. we had received a tip there was a lawyer who is paying off women for trump before the election, and we had narrowed it down to two women, karen mcdougal, and stormy daniels, and were able to obtain the contract karen mcdougal had with the parent company of the national enquirer which led to the story you were talking about, and the election was rapidly approaching, so obviously we were trying to move quickly to get to the story before the election. we need stormy daniels was also talking about telling her story, but we haven't nailed that down at that point, but we did nail down the karen mcdougal story. >> did you have a sense of how connected donald trump was to the mcdougal payments? >> well, we knew david pecker, who ran

before that he was karen mcdougal's first lawyer. and it was in his role as mcdougal's first lawyer he text the publisher of the national enquirer i have a blockbuster trump story. steinglass asked witness keith davidson to read that text that he sent to dylan howard. i have a blockbuster trump story . question, what did you mean by that? answer, sort of an entree or teaser to dylan to let him know i had perhaps an opportunity for him. question, and what was that generally speaking without revealing client confidences, what was the opportunity about which you were contacting him? answer, regarding the interaction between karen mcdougal and donald trump. question, what did stir howard say if anything, in response? answer, talk first thing i will get you more than anyone for it. you know why. question answer that you would call me in the morning. that i don't know if i had a clear understanding at that time, but i knew that dylan's boss, david pecker , and mr. trump are longtime friends and had a former business relationship, that mr.

the one involving the doorman at trump tower, karen mcdougal, the former playboy model, and stormy daniels, saying that michael cohen was involved in all these steps, but they don't the jury doesn't have to rely on cohen alone. we also pointing to the phone the recording that cohen made with his phone of him speaking with donald trump about the karen mcdougal repayment, trying to direct the jury in different directions of where they could look at some of this evidence that isn't michael cohen and that's because trump's team spent a good portion of their two-and-a-half hours focusing on michael cohen saying that he is the gloat the greatest liar of all time, pointing out different ways that they say that he has lied of the prosecutors saying that the reason why michael cohen was of such use to donald trump is because he was willing to live for him. so really a battle both over michael cohen in this

they're not trying to prosecute a case about karen mcdougal. so who cares because karen mcdougal leads directly to stormy daniel's end away. the defendant, i would argue with the way donald trump interacted with michael cohen and david pecker in the karen mcdougal case? not identical to what they did with stormy daniels, but it sets the key parts in place and to jamie's point with the first excerpt we saw, you see this again later. this shows that donald trump deputize michael cohen. he said to david pecker, this is the guy you're gonna be dealing with. on these kind of things. it happened to mcdougal and you see it happen again in daniel. so it's necessary background, sort of a ramp leading to the crime here. >> so the jury's third and fourth requests both had to do with this to trump tower meeting in august 2015, where donald trump, david pecker michael cohen, all are on tuesday, steinglass told the jury, as mr. pecker explained, the meeting began with donald trump and michael cohen asking what pecker could do to help the campaign. and you ha

regarding the interaction between karen mcdougal and donald trump. what did mr. howard say, if anything, in response? talk first thing. i will get you more than anyone for it. you know why. what do you understand that to mean? that he would call me in the morning. what did you understand the rest of the text to mean? that, i don't know if i had a clear understanding at that time, but i knew that dylan's boss, david pecker, and mr. trump were longtime friends and had a former business relationship that david pecker published from magazine, and that at the time ami had announced, -- implied that they had endorsed mr. trump's candidacy. " that is why karen mcdougal's lawyer believed the national enquirer would pay for her story to help donald trump's candidacy. that was the reason. until now, the reply was, "talk first thing, i'll get you anything, you know why." the why was that mr. trump's candidacy. the prosecutor asked him to read more. "did he cheat on millenia? who did you understand that to be referring to? donald trump. okay, next text, from whom? from dylan

stormy daniels and karen mcdougal's former attorney, keith davidson, the prosecution played the phone conversation that michael cohen secretly recorded and cnn exclusively obtained featuring donald trump taking an active role in the karen

the one with karen mcdougal. cohen took this to mean they got it, they prevented the story from being released on abc news effectively the story has now been caught. cohen updated trump and said it was bullet proof. trump said fantastic, great job. again we're talking karen mcdougal. matt. >> well first of all, another day of trial, another witness and still no -- nowhere close to allegations or evidence of illegality. i think the jury is probably at this point four weeks in very frustrated with the prosecution and the story they are telling and hoping or looking for something to hang their hat on. one of the things that, you know, as we get the read-outs here from people in the courtroom, that the jury has access to, the non-verbal. michael cohen's, the way he looks, the way he acts, the way he is testifying, and that's going to be worth as much as the words that are coming out of his mouth. you know, the prosecution is trying to build him up trying to give him softball questions to have the jury have some sympa

go over, denied. >> and you already have testimony from david pecker saying he would ask about karen mcdougaleatedly calling her our girl and karen saying she's a nice girl does it help to actually have them? on the stand to tell their side of the story and the jury than if they believe those two, then they are less likely to believe donald trump. >> well, yeah, he's lying about that. i mean, yes. >> but it also as a strategic reason, even though i know conceptually, i don't need to have this to check off the boxes to maybe movement make my elements i've got a jury whose leaning into the most i want them in the palm of my hand to be leaning in to know on these moments what you're hearing is so important. number one, number two, it's going to look bad for the prosecution. you mean there's all this talk about medical comments or manuals. i don't call them a juror is going to think themselves will hold a wire. why are we not hearing from them? and you have to play it's that same level of risk for the prosecution if defense attorney, my summation, we're all used to be just underscore just the dif

there are no longer calling on the playboy model karen mcdougall.cations of the stormy daniels testimony and if it went a bridge too far but again karen mcdougall will not be called to testify at by the prosecution in this hush money trial. more on that but first take a look at this... >> going to rafah i'm not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with the rafah tact to deal with the cities and deal with that problem. >> there is a lot as steak here i thank the region and the world is going to second-guess relationships with us in the future if you don't change your mind. >> we are talking about the president how he intervened to stop some weapons from getting to israel here. it didn't mean that they are going to stop military aid and help for israel but anything that could be used to make like uncomfortable for those in gaza that was going to stop. not entirely unprecedented on the part of the president but it's unusual still deceive this kind of thing happen where you can pick and choose what weapons and armaments get int

karen mcdougal, importantly, not stormy daniels. and karen mcdougal. it's not a call, it's an in-person meeting. michael cohen records on his phone. and the reason it cuts off is because he gets an incoming phone call. that recording is the only time the jury will hear a recording of any conversation between donald trump and michael cohen and to me it's a rorschach test when you look at the transcript of this tape, you can see it as donald trump knows what's going on. michael cohen is telling him, we're going to pay off karen mcdougal. trump essentially says, yes, what's it going to cost? one 50 do it the other way of looking at it though, is that cohen essentially communicating to trump, don't you worry about the internal details of it. leave that to me and allen weisselberg. you just know that we're paying we're going to hand at one point, michael cohen says, no, no, no, no. alan and i will handle that. so both sides are going to be arguing this case, this tape intensely, because it goes right to that core issue of donald trump's knowledge and intent

also pecker's 2016 phone call with donald trump about the former playboy playmate karen mcdougal. and david pecker's testimony about not finalizing a deal, a payment from trump to reimburse ami for mcdougal's rights to her story about her alleged affair with donald trump just moments ago, trump repeated some all too familiar false claims about a rigged trial as he walked into the court as we are waiting for the verdict here, but still getting into the notes as of this moment, paula reid and kristen holmes are here with me. and right now, what the judges doing is he's re-reading the parts of the instructions that the jury was curious about. and there's one interesting part which was about david pecker's non-prosecution agreement, basically that they could not be could not be prosecuted. it's he was boy us basically on the standard. and what he's reading is you'll recall that testimony you heard about when david pecker was an executive at ami, that they went into a non-prosecution agreement with them federal prosecutors, and basically he was saying this is to help you as a jury asse

and you already have testimony from david pecker saying he would ask about karen mcdougal repeatedly going or our girl and karen saying she's a nice girl does it help to actually have them on the stand to tell their sayyed the story and the jury then if they believe those two, then they are less likely to believe donald trump. >> well, yeah, he's lying about that. i mean, yes but it also as a strategic reason, even though i know conceptually, i don't need to have this to check off the boxes to maybe move the elements. >> i've got a jury whose leaning into the most, i want them in the palm of my hand to be leaning in to know on these moments what you're hearing is so important. number one, number two so it's going to look bad for the prosecution. you mean there's all this talk about michael collins or manuals? i don't call them a juror is going to think themselves will hold on. why why are we not hearing from them? and you have to make that same love? >> that's a risk for the prosecution and defense attorney. >> my summation, we're all used to be just underscore just the differences be

the karen mcdougal interview. mcdougal is one of the women at the center of former president trump's hush money trial. she says they had an affair starting in 2006 that lasted around ten months. the former president denies an affair with mcdougal or a sexual relationship with stormy daniels karen mcdougal was paid by the company that owns the national enquirer for her story as part of a catch and kill scheme. i spoke to her about it back in 2018. karen mcdougal had never told her story on camera and full until this interview. and she's never done an interview like it says if we could just start at the beginning, how did you meet donald trump i met donald when they were filming the celebrity apprentice at the playboy mansion. >> they were filming there and i was hired as one of deployments to work at the pool party, seen as quite fine actually. and you'd you'd worked for playboy for some time yes. >> i after becoming play mated the year i was required to work so many events with playboy. and that was one of the eve

now they're talking about karen mcdougal, who is not at issue here, the payment to karen mcdougal is not at issue here but it shows in some ways a pattern. pecker said trump said karen was a nice girl, which suggested to pecker that trump knew her, and pecker believed the story to be true, and pecker told interest trump he should buy the story. but the defendant was reluctant because he felt the story always gets out. pecker advised trump to buy the story anyways because it was too risky, so close to the election, they should take the story off the market. they're not talking about jump starting karen mcdougal's career, they're trying to protect the campaign. and with all the documents in this case it's easy to lose sight of this call. they're talking about a flurry of calls, including a 25-minute call, then a 1-minute call from pecker to howard, howard to cohen, that they had. he said trump was overtly discussing purchasing her story to keep it from being published. trump deputizing cohen right in front of pecker so that pecker knows a go ahead from cohen is a go ahead from trump. t

emil bove, eight circling back to karen mcdougal karen mcdougal, the 1998 playboy playmate of the year, who alleges that she had a ten to 11 months long relationship between 2006 and 2007 with donald trump trump's attorneys now highlighting what some might call sorted dealings of this prosecution witness, including and that he was targeted by an fbi sting operation. we're going to have much more from our reporters inside the courtroom giving us all these real-time updates during this process examination, you're watching cnn special live coverage. we're going to squeeze in a very quick break. we'll be right back the trump hush money trial gavel to gavel coverage, the weight only cnn can bring it to you. legal insight, expert analysis, and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony follows. cnn, these underwear are period proof and sneeze proof and swept their leak-proof underwear from knicks, comfy and confident protection that field, just like normal with so many styles and colors to choose from switching his easy at nixed.com ego been number one r

one involved the hush money payment to stormy daniels and the other was the karen mcdougal contract. and this particular tape is about the second crime to which michael cohen pled guilty, even though he just did the paperwork involving the payment to ms smith google, but you notice the word cash spoken by donald trump. it's not easy to here, but it wasn't the reason i went on chris cuomo and released it to cnn because that morning, rudy giuliani trump's lawyer said it was that michael cohen had used the word cash and there was at that point with his criminal defense lawyer that we decided we need to correct the record. that tape speaks for itself. >> that's where you gave the tape to cnn, correct? >> at that time, the jury also today heard michael cohen's voice for the first time. i thought it was significant. it in a stunning recording that link trump directly to stormy daniel's payment. let me quote from what he said. this is a direct quote. i can't even tell you how many times he trump said to me, i hate the fact that we did it. how significant is that i don't really know i'm goin

made with karen mcdougal.d request, the second time they rang their bell was for the jury to have the instructions that judge merchan gave them earlier this morning read back to them. over the last several weeks the 12 jurors and 18 alternates have listened to first opening statements then the testimonies of 22 witnesses, then yesterday seven hours of closing statements. and they are now deciding on donald trump's 34 counts of falsifying business records to cover up reimbursements for hush money paid to a porn star. as "the new york times" reports, quote, this is one of the rare moments in his life since he was first elected president when trump hadn't been in control of a situation in one way or another. even when we lost the 2020 election, he created an entire apparatus that worked in vain to overturn it. there's not much to do with a system of rule he doesn't control. in true trumpian fashion the ex-president railing against his case on social media as he and the rest of the world waits for the jury to reac

and when she first heard about karen mcdougal. said she thought it was -- there was a woman named karen mcdougal that was purchased by the "national enquirer." her response is asking the reporter to hold and hicks said it was an inquiry, a press inquiry. it has been accepted into evidence that that email came. in any case, peter alexander, when we talk about the campaign and what was happening at the time, this is also going to bring "access hollywood" back into the conversation. the tape is not going to be played. that's too prejudicial. this judge is being very careful about what he puts in and what he doesn't allow to be put into evidence. i can guarantee you, it's going to be played on newscasts or tabloids it's going to stream. this is a reminder to current voters of that incident. peter? >> reporter: you are right. remember, one of your guests described its a bomb. that's the way it felt in those days before the election. really did feel like it tore this thing wide open. it was stunning, even as members of the trump campaig

karen mcdougal does,.he monday before the election and you have those conversations were trump is telling hope hicks what to do. hope hicks says i will deny, deny, deny. they are hyperaware the political damage and none of the witnesses have said anything about trump being scared of melania. i had a source inside that the paper up when access hollywood tape dropped. he told me, he went upstairs with trump, and melania was very distraught. no one knows anything about anyone's merits so i have no idea >> your source was in the room of melania? >> i do not think trump went upstairs alone. a subset of the group went upstairs to the resident to deal with the statement and melania. i think a group came from -- his vote was to donald trump from the ticket and see if they could switch with mr. pence. i think if you went upstairs from to pay trump test prep. melania was reportedly crying. we do not know she was crying. did she know? was she mad at him? his concerns about her work distant second. his political conce

and then we go back, of course, to the attorneys for karen mcdougal and stormy daniels who talks about the e-mails sent to michael cohen on october 26th and 27th. talking about the deal, the subsequent payoffs as well. hope hicks really connecting these dots, alex, and setting up the time line in the lead off to these ultimate payoffs. the other thing i will say is we know hope hicks' relationship with the former president of the united states, and one thing that has remained steadfast in the courtroom is despite the fact that there has been a cooling, alex, of their relationship since 2022, since she testified over the events leading up to and on january 6th, she still seems very loyal and warm to the former president, despite the fact that reports inside the courtroom, the former president is not looking at him directly. she has glanced in his direction, but he's looking at the monitor, versus actually looking at her directly. all of this playing out in the courtroom behind me, alex, and i suspect by the way, because of the fact that we'll have only about 43 minutes left in the day i

michael cohen almost loses the karen mcdougal hush money arrangement because they don't want to pay karenthe stormy daniels hush money arrangement because they don't want to pay stormy daniels. michael cohen ultimately gets back some of his money that he paid to a technical services firm in his final payments because that firm was also stiffed by -- >> two years prior. >> by donald trump. we get the recording that was played for the jury because michael cohen has to cover up for donald trump stiffing ami on the payment for karen mcdougal. so he's making the recording to assure ami, eventually we'll pay you. all of these are a cascading series of screwing people, for lack of a better term, in terms of their bills. why are they giving us that as a pattern? >> because it speaks to the ebenezer scrooge energy of donald trump. >> but why is that bad for the defense? why is that good for the prosecution? >> it's good for the prosecution because it shows that donald trump is a miserly person who will always count his pennies. to chris' point earlier that you cannot present a $420,000 approved in

the hush money to karen mcdougal. what's going on with michael cohen and trump? what's the relationship there? how involved? trump in his business? because of course, michael cohen was paid back right through the trump organization. so i think that's all potentially very critical. and the first time the jury will hear about the actual time in question for this falsified documents, and that's because it's coming from somebody that most people just haven't heard from at all. now everybody seems to know if he followed the trump campaign in 2016, you follow the trouble white house you know about hope hicks, you know, what people have said about who picks, never really heard from hope hicks. she's testified in numerous cases when she's been compelled to do so walk through, how important this moment is for her as somebody who is not broken from trump has not spoken out, is not written a book because not gotten a cable contract. >> yeah. they don't have the same relationship that they did after january 6, there was fallout because of text messages she said on that day s

she's asked when did you first hear the name karen mcdougal, in what context. i received a call from "the washington post." who was the reporter, and had you heard of someone named stormy daniels? i heard it one other time before that. she's getting this call as the top press flack in the trump campaign, which has got to freak her out. the date is significant. november 4, 2016, is four days before the election. you now have a story coming out that would confirm a salacious story about donald trump's relationships with two women, one of whom was stormy daniels and one karen mcdougal but in the context of all these other women backing up the "access hollywood" tape that came out in october '16 which she also had to deal with, and he's running against a woman. in an election in which he is being portrayed as a misogynist, and he's been a misogynist even to the woman he's running against. that is context that's important, right? the timing is that if the election was literally happening around the corner. you were in court today. what did you see? >> i wasn't actua

was that they didn't want karen mcdougal to testify. now, they said that they'd been informed by the prosecutors that she'll would not be taking the stand, so she will not be appearing this case as this is winding down, there's really only one have significant witness less than that is michael cohen but prosecutors have not yet said when they will call him jane that's right. >> it's interesting that the prosecuting attorney, mr. steinglass, i think is his name, said that there are a lot of salacious details. his words that they did not include that they purposely did not include and still we're not in the case and they were not seeking to embarrass mr. trump. i suppose that's true at least as far as anybody who's familiar with stormy daniels book or her appearance on jimmy kimmel knows, but still what came out was, i think it's i mean, i can understand the argument that it was prejudicial because she certainly seem to be suggesting that she didn't want it to happen even if it was even if it was not coerced right? >> that is what the hea

now prosecutor michael angelo asked her as you mentioned about her learning of the karen mcdougal story release of the "access hollywood" tape. hicks testified she tried blocking the publication of an article detailing how american media purchased the mcdougall story but did not publish it. hicks testified she remembered seeing pecker at trump tower prior to the 2016 election but she did not recall participating in a meeting. hicks also testified when the "access hollywood" tape went public she personally brought the news to trump. she described him as being very upset. he told her at the time it didn't seem like something he would say. then asked hicks about the blowback and criticism from top republicans of the family paul ryan and mitt romney. two in place with the d.a.'s office testified about the validity of trump's social media post as well as data extracted from michael cohen's cell phone. trump's lawyers pushed back on how strong that evidence is. several acts though mike epps on the cell phone make it difficult to retrieve certain messages, trump's lawyer had an issue with the

i'm karen mcdougal. >> does it tell you anything? that the jury in one of the questions that they asked, the testimony to be re-read was about that. oh, yeah. i mean, the fact that that was one of the first notes that came out, we want to hear testimony. >> does that make it more does that give the defense attorneys more credibility and how they talked about that or you think it's the opposite, know, the opposite they allow the jury to focus on something you karen mcdougal is not part of these charges and they allowed the jury they even directed the jury in some ways to these ancillary aspects. >> they're really and i wonder whether karen mcdougal would have even been mentioned had the harvey weinstein decision came come down earlier. remember, she that was testimony that came out in the first couple of days with david pecker before the weinstein decision came out, limiting how much you can talk about those so-called other bad acts and so the fact that the jury was focusing on that, i think is a testament to the fact that the defense

her about how the pressure on the team continued to build after adult film stormy daniels and karen mcdougal came forward with accusations that they had had affairs with trump. i want to bring in nbc's vaughn hillyard reporting from outside the courthouse in new york. also with us, robert gibbs, white house press secretary under president obama and msnbc political analyst. adam pollock, and charles coleman, an msnbc legal analyst. vaughn, i want to start with you. you have kind of lived all of this from the beginning to the end. as you watched what unfolded today, help us understand it, but also put all of that testimony by hope hicks which was pretty dramatic in the context of what we knew at the time. >> reporter: exactly, it's dramatic because hope hicks was somebody who testified today that she was intimately involved with donald trump in what was a very small campaign brass that included keith shiler and corey lewandowski and michael cohen, the outside personal lawyer voice who maintained a quasi role with the campaign, representing donald trump. in this, for hope hicks and for the jury

if you come up with a pre- bottle, you got david , you have keith davidson and now you have karen mcdougal stormy daniels. by the time that michael cohen takes a stand the jurors will already have seen the facts and they are going to be more willing to believe him. i do not believe that michael cohen will be the final witness. he is a flawed witness. they go into the deliberation room, they are working really hard to point out these in advance to give the evidence in advance to protect michael cohen to create the firewall and i think that's working. >> this is the week that the prosecution will likely start focusing on that. what documents will the jury see? >> they're going to see the signed checks. reimbursing michael cohen for his hush money payments to stormy daniels. we have already seen a ton of email exchanges and we know that donald trump didn't send emails, but all of his under links did. the combination of his text messages to david parker and dylan howard, the national editor, we've seen already lots of communications so we've already seen a ton of records, but is a paper trail.

because we know that they did pay for $50,000 to karen mcdougal. so it'd be helpful if the jury was able to clarify that note. but again, we have no idea why the buzzer has gone off. once again while we continue to wait for the lawyers to decide which portions of the transcripts will be read read back. so a lot happening inside, but not exactly clear what it means and amazing that they have to communicate by note with the judge. a person, buzzers, notes, the foreperson contacting the judge, brynn boris, obviously are we are waiting to get more clarification on what exactly the jury is trying to get clarification on here with these two buzzers now, going off inside that courtroom behind yeah, maybe there will be a carrier pigeon. >> i mean, it just it's quite it's quite from another era. i think caitlin are at, let's let's sort of pull back a little bit and talk about this. will there are a few different conversations, but the one that they want david pecker's testimony about an michael cohen's testimony about is this trump tower meeting. we should

of karen mcdougal's life rights? exactly i mean, you have to just concede those points and focus the jury and on these are the important points. >> yeah. i always like to start a closing by saying there's a lot of things in this in this case that are not in dispute. here are the things that the district attorney and i actually agree on but here are the things that are in dispute, and this is what you have to beside focusing here send out your notes, asking for to read back the testimony on this issue. >> yeah. >> karen, what do you think? >> yeah. look, a lot of the trial was a head scratching for practitioners to wonder why for example, when when todd blanche i can't remember actually who did this stormy daniels cross, but whoever across wasn't necklace sorry. who's a phenomenal, phenomenal defense attorney. so i can't imagine that this was her decision to spend any time cross-examining stormy daniel's on whether or not there was a sexual encounter between him and donald trump has nothing to do with the case. i thin

prosecutors in the hush money case now opting not to put former playmate playboy playmate karen mcdougal on the stand. how come? let's go out front and good evening. >> i'm erin burnett outfront tonight. shockwaves. president biden's threat to stop providing weapons to israel if israel launches an invasion into rafah's populous center is reverberating across the globe tonight israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu was firing back at biden after his exclusive interview with us last night lot more. >> if we need to stand alone, we will stand alone. i have said that if necessary, we will fight with our fingernails stand alone. no signs that netanyahu will stand down a defiance. and his national security minister waking up to new is this morning and israel time posted online, hamas hearts biden with an emoji these fast, furious, emotional reactions because of this very clear statement, a commonly delivered statement from the president of the united states i made it clear that if they go into rafah, they haven't gone in rafah yet. if they go into rafah i'm not supplying the weapons that ha

karen mcdougal as a voice. you could actually speak to that intent very directly, i think was a smart player ultimately and crucial & because trump of course, was at that meeting as they laid out with david pecker. >> now, karen mcdougal post a picture on social media over the weekend of your book. >> reading your book. and she writes in the post quote, reflecting. so she's relaxing the bath of the glass of wine and your book reflecting what, what, what did you interpret as you saw that well you know, it's some expertly judged shade right at the heart of this trial, where people know that she is one of the examples that goes to this case. >> prosecutors are making for intent where she was as prosecutors acknowledged today on their witness witness list she was very much in the air as a name that was mentioned a lot during this trial for her to post with her bubble bath, enjoying yourself on a saturday night with a book on this subject is obviously something pointed and there were a lot of chuckles about it and c

michael cohen almost loses the karen mcdougal hush money arrangement because they don't want to pay karent loses the stormy daniels hush money arrangement because they don't want to pay stormy daniels. michael cohen ultimately gets back some of his money he paid to a technical services firm in his final payments because that firm was also stiffed two years prior. we get the recording that was played for the jury because michael cohen has to cover up for donald trump stiffing ami on the payment for karen mcdougal so he is making a recording to assure ami eventually, we will pay you. all of these things are a cascading series of screwing people, for lack of a better and people -- term come out of their bills. >> it speaks to the ebenezer scrooge energy of donald trump. it's good for the prosecution because it feeds into the concept of the evidence, which says that donald trump is a pennypinching miserly person who will always count his pennies, and to chris six -- chris' point earlier that you can't always prove an invoice for essential consultants, when all he did was front hundred and $30

now, this is about a payment to 1998 playboy playmate of the year, karen mcdougal cohen. all also recorded a discussion with keith davidson, who represented stormy daniel's in 2016 with us now seen as brynn gingras and alayna treene brynn, i want to start with you. where do we begin this morning? what do you think the jury will see in here today? >> yeah john i love how you said digest because there was a lot thrown at jurors yesterday and i suspect when court resumes and just about a half an hour, we're going to hear some more of those recordings again, those were done by michael cohen sometimes in seek grit and many of them were played for jurors, not only on the prosecution side, but the defense was also playing some for their benefit as well. but let's start with the one that you just mentioned there. the one between michael cohen and donald trump. remember prosecutors are trying to explain to jurors how trump knew about these payments that were being made to these the woman on his behalf. so here is one of those examples need to open up a company for the transfer of

pecker on the phone call about karen mcdougal and on paying karen mcdougal. the jury will hear discussions of the meeting where the three hashed out a plan to protect his prejudicial chances. pecker and cohen says trump was in on it and work with cohen in the catch and kill scheme. the jury may be trying to see if cohen and pecker kcorroborate each other. what cohen told has to be backed up by other evidence and the jury asked for testimony about his phone call with trump. trump asked if he should buy karen mcdougal's story, they had a nearly year-long affair, pecker told the former president yes, he should buy that. what is striking about the two requests, meeting at trump tower and the phone call seem to highlight donald trump's role in this scheme. jurors may be trying to get to the bottom of what they were told that the president did, telling david pecker and michael cohen to quash negative stories and buy the karen mcdougal story. we will know more when we get a verdict. when could that come? starting with first w-- >> steve: there are dozens of charges,

what you make of that because this is about payments to stormy daniels, on karen mcdougall but her storyfeatured prominently although she was on-call to the. [ please stand by ] >> you know, i'm so glad you pointed out because that's her mind everybody the charges in the indictment actually relate to stormy daniels and the way beat -- the reason we even had testimony about karen mcdougall being admitted into this cases because it was part of an alleged practice, it is part, it helps show there is an alleged cattle -- hedge and kills scheme. agency that the jurors have this desire to hear more about that, they want to know about david pecker's phone call with donald trump in which they discussed whether donald trump should move forward with trying to buy the story rights. they want to know more about why was it that donald trump actually did not pay for that life rights to karen mcdougall story, that it was just american media, david pecker's company, they were left paying to the $150,000. and finally they want more information about those two meetings at trump tower, one from pecker talk

if you remember, karen mcdougal is the former playboy model who received $150,000.00 in the lead up to the 2016 election as part of a catch and kill scheme with "the national enquirer" to stay quiet about her affair with donald trump. that means stormy daniels testimony, the testimony that wrapped up today, will be the only testimony this jury hears that is directly from a woman accusing donald trump of trying to keep her quiet about affair before the 2016 election. now, there are lots of reasons why karen mcdougal might not want to testify and there are lots of reasons why the prosecution might not want to call on her to testify. we are going to get some expert help unpacking all of that and what that means for this case in just a second. but, karen mcdougal not testifying also makes the testimony we did get today from stormy daniels all the more important and it makes the cross-examination of stormy daniels today, it makes that all the more important. the defense cross-examination today is probably most accurately described by a phrase i am loath to say, that it really does describe

i mean, i knew that karen mcdougal had said they slept in separate bedrooms at trump tower.ear about that. that's really the relevant part, but i think that all of these sort of very detailed testimony that you heard today, stormy daniels giving about her time in the hotel suite, was as the prosecutor told the judge, you know, he was saying it's too much, too much, the pajamas. but the purpose was to show the jury that this actually happened, to convince them, because even though it's not necessarily directly relevant to whether he falsified business records, the whole notion that he was doing this to cover up an actual sexual encounter as opposed to an extortion attempt is going to be important. so all of that detail and all of the, you know, the things like, i mean, again, they have said they were not going to tell the jury certain more lurid things about karen mcdougal's story and they have not done that, but it's the same point about what stormy said today. >> to come back to stormy daniels, there is this written denial that she did do. she goes and she writes down and k

we haven't heard much from karen mcdougal in public. some of what she understood to be the case then is now being confirmed in court. her understanding over time was oh, this was all a cut-out. this was the the campaign arm of trump doing business as a tabloid. it is only supposed to go off the evidence as they get it. just in the past two weeks. >> i think putting pecker on the stand and really laying out the scheme and the context for the scheme was important. i thought it was interesting because it fed into the whole thing. because i think that one defense lawyer, by doing that, i think what they really did was show that he had the creds. this is a very sordid thing. while the defense lawyers want to paint this as this happens every day. this is the way it is done. none of the people they got on cross-examination were running for president. none of the people they talked about in cross-examination had obligations under federal election law. to make truthful entries. what karen mcdougal talked about was this was the acknowledgment of