karoun? >> there is a flaw the administration is putting out. any communication that comes back to the government is great. if you have a back channel and proposing setting up at a secure line to its embassy in the united states, that fundamentally is to avoid seeing what you are doing. it is not information that is planning on going back into the government. if it were, it would be a standard track two diplomacy. to keep politics from getting into the mix. that's why you have the early stages of iran deal negotiated with the oman. not in the we'll go to the adversary and set up a secret line in the hopes of the intelligence commute intelligence community doesn't see what we are doing. >> why do this after russia attempted to interfere in the election? why have a back channel necessity go negotiation? why coddle vladimir putin? >> david, you are actually saying what many are questioning. there are alarm bells going off everywhere. the question is was collusion with the trump camp with russia to fix the election. the democracy of the country has

karoun's in the washington post. karoun, you found out some of jim comey's decision making when he went public last summer to talk about the conclusions that he had drawn of the hillary clinton e-mail case which was highly unorthodox could have been based on a bogus intel that perhaps the russians planted. >> sure. we learned in late april from a profile of jim comey that part of his decision making in stepping forward in early july and not letting loretta lynch tell the public the clinton e-mail probe was closed was based on the tar mamac meeting h bill clinton. we discovered it was citing an e-mail between debbie wasserman schultz. she is talking to a member of the clinton campaign and don't worry. it won't get too close. nobody is all that e-mail. the fbi knew as early as august that the reliability of that document was unreliable. the questions are did the fbi make its decisions based on a document that they discovered was unreliable at best and potentially even fake. or are they explaining a decision based on a

karoun: there was some discussion about that.e was asked specifically about statements that giuliani made during the campaign that he had some advance notice from former members of the fbi. --least that there would be about the clinton investigation. he was grilled by patrick leahy. they were looking into it and if they found any links that were made from the sba -- fbi, either journalists or individuals like giuliani, there would be consequences for that. he didn't specify specifically -- he did not substantiate any of those allegations to a specific person we've heard about, but he did pretty much corroborate that they are looking into those weeks that -- leaks that were bragged about to an extent by trump's surrogates, like giuliani. charlie: how long can he stay? is it a 10 year term? karoun: yes, i believe he has fivein for a little over of those, if i am not mistaken. right now there's not really people calling for his head, so it would be an extraordinary move to actually remove him. like mike said, the jury is still out o

we talk to karoun demirnlgian of "the washington post" and mike schmidt of the new york times. >> comey is usually the cool cat, very sort of even keeled but today he was much more animated. his voice was louder, he used his hands a lot more in expression. and he seemed very frustrated. and he said at one point that he's almost gnaw shus to think that he has some impact on the election. >> rose: we continue with journalist jonathan at enand amie parnes, their new book called shatter, inside the hillry clinton doomed campaign. >> we both believed on election night that she would win as much as she did and much of the country did. in the reporting and the writing of this, we had been reporting it for back since the end of 2014, even before she got in, the key for us was that we tried to report it and write it as though we didn't have any prediction of what was going to go on. and so as a result of that, we didn't have to go back and tear anything up. >> we conclude this evening with the architect renzo piano and author victoria newhouse, her book is called chai os and. >> it occurred to m

. >> karoun we've seen fortunes rise and fall the last few months. what does that mean for jared kushner who is the top adviser and the president's son-in-law? how could he ever be out? >> well that's a very good question and it doesn't seem like the president is turning on his son-in-law right now, because his son-in-law is the latest character to emerge at the center of the latest allegations surrounding the campaign's russia ties. it seems also if there's talk of a staff shakeup at the white house and rethinking the communication strategy and if that happens kushner's approach may end up prevailing. he as we reported has wanted to go on the attack, to step out more forcefully against in various episodes of these allegations coming out and the white house is actually maybe not gone as far as kushner wanted but if they decided to change strategy you might find kushner ends up becoming closer to the president and his thought process and his philosophy for how to do this prevails. >> it's going to be interesting to see particularly this week if the pr

joining me now, karoun demirjian. this is a little complicated so i want to sort of walk through this. comey at some point, they're deciding how to deal with this investigation and how to deal with lynch. and fbi gets this document that you report on that says what? >> it's analysis by russian intelligence. it says that there is this e-mail as you explained just a minute ago from debbie wasserman schultz to a member of the clinton campaign team describing how -- excuse me, from debbie wasserman schultz to an employee of the oakland society foundation describing how loretta lynch has been in touch with a member of the clinton campaign team and telling them she's not going to let the probe into clinton's e-mails go too far. that's basically what's set out here and that's what falls into the fbi's lap. then the question is the discussions that happened in trying to determine what the intelligence value of that document is. what we learned is that by august, they had determined that it was unreliable, that it is not somet