karzai demanded the u.s. military be more forthcoming, as he lent a sympathetic ear to family members who insisted, despite what u.s. officials have indicated, that the shooter could not have acted alone. >> the story of the village elders and the affectees is entirely different. they believe it is not possible for one person to do that. the army chief has just reported that the afghan investigation team did not receive the cooperation that they expected from the united states. >> woodruff: the massacre was the latest in a series of incidents that have cratered u.s.-afghan relations. last month's koran burnings by u.s. personnel ignited days of rioting and reprisal killings against americans. and ongoing tensions over u.s. "night raids" against suspected insurgents also factor in. yesterday, after meeting with defense secretary leon panetta, karzai said he wants nato coalition troops out of afghan village outposts. american officials played down the statement. but today, the afghan leader insisted he was seri

in fact, president karzai has been very clear on that issue. that is why we've made decisions in the last several mocks that have put afghans in lead on night operations. the number of afghans ultimately-- and every one is a tragedy-- the number of afghans ultimately who are killed and injured, innocent afghans, on night operations, is a very, very small number relative to the scope and the numbers of these operations that we run. and so with president karzai's concern that only afghans enter afghan homes, we've gone a very long way to doing that and appreciating in fact and imprinting-- implementing his desires and regards and we're going to continue to do those kinds of things which accelerate the movement of afghan forces into the foreso they can be fully responsible for the security of the afghan government and the protection of the afghan people and we're well on the way in night operations. >> rose: you seem to be saying and saying ist very clearly that having a very good relationship with president karzai is very important, thereby one.

last week, karzai met with iran's president. is a move observers say was calculated to demonstrate to the taliban and other critics that he is not washington's puppet. >> it is possible karzai is looking ahead, passed 2013 and 2014. he may be considering the possibility that afghanistan me break up into a collection of ethnic territories. he has to ask himself what role he can play. it may be that he is a week president -- he is a weak president that is trying to win domestic allies. >> at one point, karzai was the best hope of the west to bring peace to afghanistan. he was a tribal leader who favored moderate islam. he had studied political science and had lived in the united states. >> what needs to be done now is to maintain a constructive working relationship through the end of 2014 and see what happens. i think we will have to lower our expectations about the current president. >> president karzai and the west -- a relationship that faces an uncertain future. >> united nations security council has been formally i asked to r

and president karzai does not want to negotiate with that. but the recent fate of it created a widespread anger in afghanistan and it's hard for the taliban to continue talks with the united states. there are reports that many taliban field commanders were angry at the continuation of talks. this could be an effort to keep the unity of their movement within afghanistan. >> thank you very much for your insight. belgium is holding a national day of mourning on friday toing the bus crash in switzerland on tuesday. a minute silence will be observed at 11:00 and flags will be at half mass. eight of theless severely wouldn'ted children who had been released from hospitals are now back home in belgium. in all 24 passengers survived. some are still in a critical condition. while earlier a memorial was hold the remember the 22 children and six adults who died in the accident. christian reports from zit zerland. -- switzerland. >> incomprehensive that such a fun holiday could end this way. >> the mountain village of st. luke has been welcoming this gro

and i believe that president karzai understands that. and i believe that president karzai appreciates that, as well. and he has said that publicly. but it's difficult to get past some of these recent incidents, and in the process, words might be spoken that we all regret. and i reject the term "demon" as it is appliesd to our forces an satanic and inhuman. those are terms that do not apply to us. but i can understand in moments of stress and anger they might be uttered. >> thank you very much, general allen. i have to say that the people who observed your leadership in afghanistan, universally, extremely complimentary of what you're doing and the leadership you're providing. your integrity is unquestioned. and i take direct comfort in your honest analysis. dr. miller, if you wanted to comment on that, my time is up, but perhaps you'd like to also comment. >> senator sessions, i would simply like to associate myself completely with general allen's remarks and to say that it's been an incredibly bouncy period of a few weeks to about a mont

karzai met with leon panetta in kabul on thursday. they discussed sunday's shooting spree when a u.s. soldier murdered 16 afghan civilians. karzai told panetta that afghan forces have the ability to maintain security on their own in rural areas. he said international forces have lost the trust of afghan people, and they must pull out of the rural areas. karzai requested international forces stay in urban areas and focus on helping reconstruction efforts. panetta reiterated his regret over the shooting incident and agreed to the earlier transfer of security authority. >>> in response the taliban has decided to us is spend peace talks with the u.s. the taliban said in a statement that the u.s. had introduced unacceptable demands contradicting an earlier agreement. the statement said the peace talks will remain on hold until the u.s. makes its position clear and shows a willingness to fu fulfill its promises. it did not provide further details of the talks. the taliban demanded the release of five of their fighters from guantanamo. they

patch this back up and get the taliban involved again in the karzai government involved and i'm sure that there's a lot of people in the state department working on that right now my conservative warhawks here in the united states are lower than you go she is just as easily and then go on to argue particular as we go into november that the president's making deals with terrorists. it certainly is possible but i think in terms of the shifting political winds in the united states we're seeing conservatives and republicans starting to call for a withdrawal as well you know newt gingrich was making sounds earlier this week about that we aren't going to fix afghanistan rick santorum has made similar comments recent polling done earlier this week was showing that for the very first time republicans are evenly split on whether the war in afghanistan has actually been worth both the financial and human costs so although it's assumed that this is a bit of a partisan issue i think what we're seeing now is a genuine shifting in the put in the public sentiment toward this war that goes across th

the object to the involvement of hamid karzai's government. hamid karzai has called on nato forces to end patrols in villages after the killing of 15 civilians by an american soldier last weekend. apparently there will be no change in strategy. >> it all began here, almost 7,000 miles from afghanistan. a place where once a twin towers stood. now, a memorial to the 2983 who died on a single day. david and some at the camera and remember 9/11. she was in new york, he was in london. samantha and cement cameron remember 9/11. >> so much has been sacrificed apparently for so little. >> of course we made big sacrifices. we lost 400 of our soldiers. it is worth remembering why we are there and this is the right place to remember it. nearly 3000 people died right here on 9/11. that terrorism was coming straight out of afghanistan and pakistan, that area of the world. we had to make sure that afghanistan was no longer a haven for terror and afghanistan. >> another setback for hopes of a political solution. the taliban announced that they were no longer

president karzai has told the americans, "hand over control of security next year." >> karzai told aisiting u.s. secretary of defense that he wanted afghan troops to take full responsibility in 2013, not 2014, as currently planned. >> in the wake of those killings in an afghan village, karzai said u.s. troops must soon be confined to major bases. >> leon panetta was dispatched to kabul to ease tensions over the weekend. karzai use the opportunity to demand that forces for security be handed over the afghan forces. the image of the true sense of a tarnished by the shooting spree. panetta promised karzai justice would be done. >> i again pledged to him that we are proceeding with a full investigation here and that we will bring the individual involved to justice. he accepted that. >> many afghans are angry that the perpetrator was flown out of the country and will not face justice in afghanistan. >> the killer was taken to kuwait. that is not acceptable for us and we condemn it. he should have been put in prison here and face trial here in afghanistan. >> meanwhile, the afghan taliban

president karzai and the international mission are in broad agreement. president karzai would like foreign troops out of the villages and back to their bases. the foreign troops would like to return to their bases and eventually return to their homes. the timetable is tricky. there is broad agreement that by the end of 2013, american troops and british troops will have gone back to their bases. most combat troops will go home by the end of 2014. it will be afghans that would be doing most of the fighting. >> you talk about u.s. troops going back to their bases from, will it be difficult for the u.s. to kind of control that process now because of these recent events? >> that is really the million- dollar question. no one would like an early exit from afghanistan. that would not be good for foreign soldiers or the afghan people and it would provide an advantage to the taliban. president obama called president karzai to congratulate him on the birth of his second child, but also they reaffirmed what is called the lisbon agreement which is the road map for t

leon panetta were telling journalists that the messages that supposedly were coming from homemade karzai about encouraging or calling for even a u.s. withdrawal from rural areas and forward operating bases was actually not delivered in the meeting so i think there's an uncertainty and really we need to wait and see what concrete demands our requests come from how many cars are as government and then examine how the administration responds in kind how are we supposed to head off to nato and afghan forces on cars i once. i think that is definite you they definitely an important question karzai is in a very tough place politically following especially the massacre this weekend but certainly i think it's safe to assume that in the afghan parliament that there were calls for a full ought to calling on the u.s. to fully withdraw all foreign troops to leave now cars i obviously sees that the security also depending on a presence if you a foreign troops he his government as well as the united states were hoping to go she had a strategic partnership agreement which would actually extend through t

yesterday the president karzai called on all u.s.and nato forces to go back to the bases and get out of his town. and demand add quicker transfer of control to afghan security forces. the top story this hour and jennifer has it at the pentagon. the president has again telephoned the afghan president? >>reporter: the second time in a week. unusual to say the least. the call was made past midnight we told and the official white house read out was the president was calling to congratulate president karzai on the birth of his daughter and only later mentioned they agreed to discuss further karzai's call for u.s. forces to immediately pull back to their bases. here is an angry president karzai today. >> it is by all means the end of the road. the end of the road. end of the road. no one can afford this anymore. this behavior. it cannot be tolerated. >>reporter: president karzai essentially saying he is at the end of his rope, the end of the rope, and we learned that defense secretary panetta had landed back at andrews air force base, back

karzai when mr. panetta was here visiting and having talks with him at that time, john. >> sarah, we know u.s. officials hoping to tamp down the outrage over this massacre. has shown afghan surveillance video of the alleged gunman. u.s. officials saying this should prove the actions of just one person. what's president karzai's reaction to that? >> reporter: interesting. we asked him about that directly at the presidential palace today as he was about to leave after he had sat for more than an hour listening to villagers tell their stories of what happened on sunday. and he said "i'm not convinced." he said that his investigative team did see that surveillance video, but there's a lot of skepticism surrounding that video. and a lot of people saying that they're not quite sure if that was actually the night it happened, north quite sure if this is actually the soldier. they're not quite sure if there were other soldiers perhaps involved. all of the villagers talked in sentences like "we do not believe

is there so there have been big shortcomings on the other hand the karzai government even though just today they say they want the u.s. to withdraw basically for a direct combat and just be in reserve which might not be the worst thing in the world but the karzai government still wants the u.s. there is a democratically elected government and also most afghans are saying that when the u.s. withdraws if it does so before afghanistan has its own capabilities then you might get another civil war ok so what do you think about that. go ahead well i mean when you say the karzai government is democratically elected i mean i think that the karzai government does have its virtues i think it belongs in the guinness book of record records for corruption. there's no question about that it is taken bribes that are virtually unknown even in that area but democratically elected that's ridiculous there's no such thing i mean how can you have in afghanistan a democratic election that's bizarre it's absurd the united states did in fact accomplish that goal they did it model isn't the problem this is i

he described the karzai government marvelously.hink the interesting is the case for how bad it is. i guess you could say that by staying there, it gives it a bit more time to try and do a deal with the taliban and achieve the kind of stability, and it gives american more time to the pressure on pakistan. >> it is terrible. there seems widespread consensus on these sort of government. you may say it is their only government, but the sort of government that there is in afghanistan now. that is not a great thing to have died for, is that? >> the afghan government has been marred in corruption. they have not been liable partners for much of the time we have been involved in this campaign. that has restricted the ability to make the progress we would have liked to have done. it is complicated operation. there is only one government in afghanistan. we have no other option. but i think there is, you know, still a job to be done there. i believe that very strongly. i think it is wrightwood peter is saying, that the terrorist threat from al

ahead well i mean when you say the karzai government is democratically elected i mean i think the karzai government does have its virtues i think it belongs in the guinness book of robert records for corruption. there's no question about that it is taken bribes that are virtually unknown even in that area but democratically elected that's ridiculous there's no such thing i mean how can you have in afghanistan a democratic election that's bizarre it's absurd the united states did in fact accomplish that goal. is the problem this is started to be a bad show i would vice president biden came out and said he didn't want cars i really like that even though it was completely certain the cars i would be erected reelected because he has supported afghanistan and that is when cars i started to conclude he had to make peace with the bad actors in his region because he saw the u.s. commitment was wavering ok gretchen do output that you can now i'm a. graduate of washington go ahead go ahead i'm afraid i think how many cars i was in bed with all sorts of bad actors as were his brothers long before j

president karzai made a number of comments, you know, being concerned about the u.s. troops, talking about returning us to our bases, ending night raids. by and large it seems to me those comments reflect domestic pressure, reflect the afghan constituents that president karzai is responsible to being concerned about the foreign military presence. while president karzai's aware of the importance of us being there he's aware most of the people in afghanistan look forward to the day when we're not. so number one, is that an accurate reflection in your view of what president karzai and some other domestic politicians in afghanistan are reflecting? number two this is for both dr. miller and general allen, how do you work that relationship? how do you make sure the transition continues to happen in a responsible way, not in a rushed way given that domestic political pressure? i will point out that domestic political pressure that president karzai and others in the afghan government are feeling reflects the flaw and the strategy that says if things aren't going well, let's j

karzai will have to go back to those tribal leaders. one of his aides say president karzai simply does not have an explanation anymore. a lot of these incidents have been happening. not long ago was the burning of the koran. aids say he is now speaking to senior officials in kandahar, as well as tribal leaders, telling them that the person who has done this will not be able to get away with it and that justice will be done. it is also a huge propaganda victory for the taliban .nsurgents we've we've seen pictures of the victims on their website and pictures on twitter. >> we've also seen the visit to afghanistan by the german leader, angela merkel. talking about that troop withdrawal -- the weekend events obviously mean tensions between coalition troops between outside forces and afghanistan are much more strained. >> what this incident has done is made the battle for hearts and minds extremely difficult. remember in the district -- it was a nato forces that had kicked out the taliban from this area. they have urged the villages to come

and karzai opposed the troop surge from the beginning and karzai is kind of a peacenik. karzai didn't want the troop surge and i think you see that now this public statement and with what he is saying and a very perilous point. the american involvement in afghanistan has essentially come to -- it is coming to a close. >> those public statements i think are worth evaluating for a minute more because you are getting very weird interpretations of them what karzai says is he wants u.s. troops to pull took their operating bases more quickly and he has not exactly give an timetable you hear a lot of blind quotes in the newspapers from administration officials saying he has not said when, he didn't really mean it he is posturing for domestic consumption. i don't know. nancy, i read things like that i read the leader of afghanistan saying he want the u.s. troops out and the u.s. saying they want troops to pull back and not be involved. >> why are we not doing that? >> why are we not doing that? >> i don't know this is not my strong suit. all i can say is it is obvious the troop

president karzai meeting u.s. defense secretary leon panetta today, demanding that nato forces pull back to military bases. he says he is outraged over the shooting rampage on sunday that left 1 civilians dead. the u.s. soldier accused in that attack was flown out to kuwait. karzai wants him tried in afghanistan. chief washington correspondent james rosen is live for us in washington. james? >> jon and jenna, good morning, upon landing in helmand province in south-central afghanistan aides to defense secretary president panetta were off-guard. in his session with car size, secretary panetta reaffirmed that the u.s. is conducting a full investigation of last sunday's shooting rampage and the suspected gunman now in custody will be indeed brought to justice. karzai was told to reporters accepted that. he also called for a swifter u.s. pullout. >> there is to doubt we're reaching into a critical juncture in our joint endeavor. and as far as we are concerned, we have always believed that the only sustainable way to se

i've believe and president karzai understands that and i believe president karzai appreciates that as well and he has said that publicly but it is difficult to get past some of these recent incidents and in the process words might be spoken that we offer grit, and i reject the term daemon as it is applied to our forces and satanic and inhuman. those are terms that do not apply to us but i can understand how in moments of stress and anger they might be uttered. >> thank you very much general allen. i have to say people who live compared your leadership in afghanistan universally are extremely complementary in what you are doing and your integrity is unquestioned and i take comfort in your honest analysis. dr. miller, if you want to comment on that. my time is up but perhaps he would also like to comment. >> senator sessions i would simply like to associate myself completely with general allen's remarks and say that it has been an incredible period of about a month and during that time, during an incredibly difficult time, we have also in addition to the conversations with president oba

the villagers themselves want karzai to hand over the soldier to them. this attack could not have come at a worse time. last month afghans held mass protests against american troops after u.s. soldiers mistakenly burned copies of the koran. six americans were killed in retaliation. the brutal killing spree will likely further anti-american sentiment because civilian deaths are already a hot-button issue here. protests are expected across the country beginning tomorrow morning. jeff. >> jeff: mandy clark in kabul, thank you. >> we are being told tonight that president obama did call afghan president karzai to express condolences today. from the pentagon now national security correspondent david martin has more. >> reporter: the sight of dead afghan civilians is a numbingly familiar with. but these were killed by an american soldier and not by accident. whatever his motive t ran counterto america's number one mission in afghanistan, protect the civilian population. he will now be investigated and probably prosecuted. according to a spokesman for general jo

so, put yourself in president karzai's place. you see in the front page of "the new york times" it says, debate in the administration, how about how quick the withdrawal, how speedy the withdrawal is going to be. well, president karzai has ambition to stay there. one predecessor was hung from a lamp post in kabul. instead of saying, we're going to win this war, what president obama said in 2008, quote, the good war we must win. instead, all we hear about is plans for withdrawal. plans for withdrawal. how quick the withdrawal will be. how about a commitment to victory? the american people understandably are terribly war-weary. ien that. but it requires a leader who can explain to the american people why this can succeed. three times the president has gone against the recommendations of his military advisers. the first one was, of course, is when he announced that we would have 30,000 in a surge instead of on 40,000. i think what we got to do is understand how tough this is, convince karzai that we are there to win, and we still ha

karzai slammed the u.s.r the probe of the shooting, saying he was at the end of the rope over the he was at the end of the rope over the u.s.'s alleged lack of cooperation. joining me to talk about the situation in afghanistan is msnbc correspondent atia. i guess it's a wide-open field for you for a few minutes. what is going on? do they really believe there was more than one shooter? is this going to continue as an issue, or what? >> hi there, chris. they believe there was more than one shooter. right now -- today, actually, there were family members of the victims who made their way to kabul, including a man who lost nine family members in that sunday massacre, crying to president karzai and crying for justice. as president karzai was listening to them, he paid attention to the afghan delegation that he sent down to kandahar to investigate what went on, a delegation that included two of president karzai's brothers. they came back and said that they do believe there was a possibility that there was more tha

they've made an enemy of the karzai government. the karzai government has had their role in that but essentially the u.s. has consistently undermined karzai, the leaking of the eikenberry cables is a very good example of that. and so the u.s. has the taliban, its enemy, on the one side, and an enemy of the afghan government on the other side and slowly an enemy of the afghan people so you end up with fewer and fewer and fewer people in afghanistan who are able to bridge the cultural divide between the u.s. and the afghan people. there are very dedicated people who have been worked to bring those two things together in pursuit of a common goal which is a better life for most afghan people and a strong functioning government. that hasn't materialized to meet the needs and expectations of the afghan people. al is may khalilzad talked about it's important what the u.s. does in the judicial process. the afghans want to see this guy hanging from a tree with his head off that's what justice would look like to them and they want it fast. y

karzai and mr. panetta was more positive than the statement would indicate and he made no demands to the defense secretary. officials acknowledge that mr. karzai told mr. panetta that american troops should be confined to bases by next year. but they have publicly tamped down the differences and portray the two countries working together. secretary panetta said we're on the same page here. that was in "the new york times." in the print edition of the paper, same reporter's story had been updated. here's how they've cast it. mr. karzai's surprise announcement, which would confine american troops to their bases a year earlier than mr. obama proposed was initially made at a meeting with leon panetta. by way, you've also heard about a security breach that was possibly targeted at leon panetta. he said it was not. "the washington post" in their story this morning -- now interesting, this man if you have not heard, the afghan man was a civilian interpretor who had worked on contract for nato officials who

the delegation included two of president karzai's brothers. speak it on we will our correspondent who is in kabul. what are the latest details? i know they are still coming in. >> the latest details are one afghan national army guard were skilled and three others were injured including the intelligence police and army. according to senior defense officials there was a 10-minute gun battle. he described it as an ambush by the taliban tiring from a distance but firing where villagers were also taking part in prayer services and senior members of the delegation including two brothers of president hamid karzai. >> any attack is bad and seen as unwelcome. is it striking there hasn't been the response, militant response or angry reaction that might been expected after the weekend compared it, for example, what happened after the koran burning incident? >> it has to be said that president karzai and his aides were personally involved because his own province and where he has a number of close relationships with people and he has been speaking with pe

the statement said president karzai asked secretary panetta that all international forces leave afghan villages and deploy back to their bases. that apparent call for u.s. forces to leave rural areas immediate plea is inconsistent with the plan to gradually turn over the fight to afghan forces over the next year or more, and while panetta today reiterated that the u.s. military role continue until the end of 2014, karzai claimed that he told panetta that both sides should work to complete the transnition 2013 instead of 2014. >> this is not the first time karzai has issued a tough statement intended to convince the afghan people that he is standing up to the u.s. two years ago, when he was under heavy pressure from the u.s. on political reform, he threatened to join the taliban. chip reid, cbs news, abu dhabi. >> pelley: and you'll remember this week, president obama said that he's sticking with his schedule, which calls for most u.s. forces to leave afghanistan at the end of 2014. in domestic politices, pennsylvania has just enacted one of the toughest voter i.d. laws in the country.

gwen: it is not clear that karzai agrees. martha is back from a recent trip to afghanistan. does this feel by a pivot point. the name of the staff sergeant was released. >> they weren't going to release his name until he was charged with 16 counts of murder, but the name started leaking tonight, 38 years old. a pivot point? one of the things i learned from being in afghanistan last week, early last week was that there are so many cases where you think, oh, this is going to change everything, this is going to be terrible, and things seem to keep going forward over there. it plods along and weren't huge outbursts or protests about the massacres of civilians and children. it will be a huge domestic story because you have to say to yourself, what happened and the more we learned tonight, he was in a battle in 2007 in iraq and he is talking about helping people in iraq. he said i have never been more proud of my unit. this is the real difference between being an american as opposed to being a bad person, we are there to help. this is the same person. people are going to say what