when we come back, jared kushner and kash patel, i'll kushner and kash patel, i'll be right back. is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. we just moved. so there's millions of - dahlias in bloom. over nine acres. when we started, we grew a quarter of an acre. now i'm taking on new projects on the regular. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com ♪ ♪ how's he still playin'? aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength. reduces inflammation. don't touch my piano. kick pain in the aspercreme. >> mark: welcome back america we're here with jared kushner, his first, plus exclusive interview about his book. i want to link this book. to events that are going on right now, the mar-a-lago attack on donald trump. just never seems to end. the effort to try and tie january 6 to donald trump. when you were in the white house, working very closely with president t

when we come back, jared kushner and kash patel, i'll be right back. giving it your all? have the right partner by your side. hyland's naturals leg cramps quick dissolve tablets. no water needed. no stomach upset. just fast, effective relief. hyland's naturals leg cramps. to healthy competition and beyond. age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. >> mark: welcome back america we're here with jared kushner, his first, plus exclusive interview about his book. i want to link this book. to events that are going on right now, the mar-a-lago attack on donald trump. just never seems to end. the effort to try and tie january 6 to donald trump. when you were in the white house, working very closely with president trump, your father-in-law, it was one attack after another, yet donald trump accomplished more i would article new terms of iconic policy issues than any modern president in a 4 ye

it cites this breitbart story that ran on may 5th and the article stated that kash patel was basically justifying the reason they found classified materials among the records that the former president of the united states provided to nara and patel implied it was misleading because potus de classified the material. this idea that donald trump de classified a bunch of documents found at mar-a-lago before he left office. that is actually cited directly in this affidavit as sort of a reason for supporting the reason that they needed to actually go and get these documents at mar-a-lago because it didn't seem like something they were necessarily buying as an excuse. while we got a lot of redacted pages in here, kash patel pops up in this breitbart story from may as one of the reasons for supporting their reasoning for going in to get those documents. >> let me explain who kash patel is. originally he was working for house intelligence when it was run by republicans by devin nunez, then he ended up in the trump nsc, then at the director of national intelligence office and he finally ended up

so we are back with kash patel and devin nuÑes. of the times in the past that we saw bad behavior down irs, lois lerner. tell me more about who's running things and who is ordering this search and seizure. finish. >> well, the reason i wanted to run your viewers through kind of that history, because it's really important because there's a few things in common. one thing is the democrats are involved in this. they coordinate with the media, and like i said, these top-level obama/biden officials are now at the top echelon of this current white house and department of justice, and they're basically facing no scrutiny. and, look, i don't have any, you know, i'm not buddies with merrick garland, but i was in washington for, you know, a couple decades, and what you saw on friday was very unusual. you had a sitting attorney general who shows up three days after the fact, right? so they ransacked the president's home, they the get all these boxes, nobody knows what the hell's in it. president trump says, look, let's release warrant, and th

he was being a transparent president. >> that was former department of defense chief of staff, kash patelhis take on the fbi search of mar-a-lago. claiming it took place because there were documents that needed to be made public. joining us now, columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius. we show that clip because you have a new piece up about kash patel and this role in all of this. let's take one step back and remind people who he is in the trump orbit. >> so, willie, i wrote in april of last year a piece for "the washington post" which i described kash patel, who began his recent career as a staffer for the head of the house intelligence committee, devin nunes, as being the zelling figure, if you remember the movie. in donald trump's campaign against the deep state, he keeps reappearing in different guises. so in 2017, he's the leading investigator for nunes, trying to show that the russia investigation is really a hoax. by 2019, he's joined the white house staff working for trump as a counterterrorism adviser. in 2020, he is sent to the office of the director of national inte

we're examining this hypocrisy when we come right back with devin nuÑes and kash patel.e always loved building things. not just structures and skyscrapers, but teams who make it all possible. after all... we wouldn't be where we are today without them. so we made sure that like these buildings... their futures may also stand the test of time. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [sfx: ding] [message] hey babe, meet us at the bottom of the trail. oh, man. hey! open up! the redesigned chevy silverado. with a sophisticated, high-tech interior... open the door! it's easy to forget it's a truck. ♪ - thanks. - nice truck! it was. find new style. find new roads. >> the money, i gave it to my attorney in greece, because i felt it was given to me under very suspicious circumstances. and upon coming back to the united states, i had about seven or eight fbi agents rummaging through my luggage looking for money. and what i think in this whole set-up was all about was trying to frame a fara violation against me, that i was under some sort of illicit surveillance for actually, i think, years leading up to and dur

. >> our friend kash patel who served chief of staff at defense department in national security office

i don't know what in the world kash patel can be thinking in terms of saying, i am going to spread out in the world, classified documents. but when you look at the timing of when cash patel's saying this. when he gets appointed by the former president be the representative the national our guys, and the search that was done in mar-a-lago, i don't think there is a coincidence, that this is all happening within days of each other. because you can imagine, the department saying, you know, there is top secret material at mar-a-lago, and we have kash patel, a designate of the former presidents, talking about making this public. so, from a national security perspective, you can really see the urgency of the department taking action. to protect all of us. >> if andrew weissmann actually said on our show, coincidence, i think not, i would be the happiest person in the world. joyce, something else happened today that made very big news. mike pence said he would consider an invitation to speak to the january 6th committee. here is what i do not understand. why in the world has he not been subpoe

kash patel, one of his lawyers, if you can call him that, went on fox news to make this argument.to play that and then on the back side of that tell you what john bolton had to say about that argument. >> president trump, as a sitting president, is a unilateral authority for declassification. he can literally stand over a set of documents and say these are now declassified and that is done with definitive action immediately. >> so that's kash patel. he went on for much longer than that and that's the thing, blanket declassification, like somehow if i touched a ritz cracker it would become the holy eucharist on its own. here comes john bolton to say what he thinks about that claim. >> i think that claim is almost certainly a lie. look, when i became national security adviser nobody briefed me or informed me that this policy or order was in effect. i spent 17 years as -- felt like seven years, i spent 17 months as national security adviser. i was never aware of anything even remotely approximating that policy, and i haven't heard anything of it since i left. if he, in fact, said som

kash patel, we'll work on getting him back. he's making a good point here, bret. glad you're still with us. two different categories. you have criminal and national security. so what category based on what we've seen play out here do you think this was part of? >> well, it is a good point. i have also seen both sides when the department of justice decides to treat one as a national security case and another as criminal. and what is interesting is typically when you're dealing with a national security case, it's urgent and you don't have to jump through some of the hoops that you would need to on the criminal side and you can get to the documents and then you can later make a decision on the criminal side. here we don't have a clear perspective on what they are alleging the president has done wrong, whether it is an infraction surrounding his obligations on national security or is this criminal behavior. when you use a swat team-like response, you're typically revealing that you're treating it as a criminal case. >> martha: one of the many big questions that is not

one person that we talked to that was clearly flagged in the affidavit is kash patel.is clearly in the crosshairs because the department of justice, i think, very responsibly put before the judge what's called brady information. that is potential exculpatory information, evidence favorable to donald trump, but it's clear, although we don't have the reasoning because it's redacted, it's really clear from the way the redactions are done that the government thinks that all of the information was not declassified while the president was the president and you know that because after they talk about kash patel they continue to refer to the material that was at mar-a-lago as classified. so kash patel, when he sees this will need to be getting a lawyer, and i would say he needs to be getting maybe a better lawyer than we've seen to date in this investigations. >> we have to sneak in a break, but the burning question, i think behind all of of this is why. why did the president who had to be spoon fed with sugar and syrup and everything nice, his pdb every morning and still didn

i don't think anything that kash patel says is credible. i think the fact is this veneer of presidential authority is not going to bear out in facts. frankly, of course, merrick garland did the right thing in pursuing this course of action because nobody is above the law. that's what i believed when he reported the president's wrongdoing on that notorious so-called perfect call that everybody in the united states is subject to the law, nobody is above the law. >> the rhetoric that we're hearing from those in trump's corner, they are talking about regime, they are talking about persecution, they're promising revenge. what do you think when you hear that? >> well, this is -- it's now public, but this is something that's been discussed privately. i can tell you that i and my wife and my family have discussed what happens if the republicans take power, if they manage to somehow even get control of the house in the midterm elections, we will probably be subject to investigations, even though i'm basically an open book and, you know, i would expe

these are the kinds of documents that just don't get mispacked or put incorrectly as kash patel said there in the back of a truck. there's extensive regulations on how they're handled, what kind of room they're in, who can handle them. how they're shredded. there's regulations on the kind of shredder that can be used to destroy information once it's no longer -- once it can be destroyed. so this idea that somebody just made a mistake and packed something on the wrong truck and ended up at mar-a-lago is just ludicrous. what you have in a search w warrant is an indication that someone, number one a federal judge and law enforcement, has deemed this information -- there's probable cause to believe that three crimes were committed. and that's what we have here. >> all right. thank you both so very much. obviously a very sober situation in which we all find ourselves tonight. thank you. >>> next, trump is trying to fight back with unsubstantiated claims about obama's handling of classified documents. the national archives is speaking out to debunk those claims. plus we're going to take yo

but of course, as you heard, kash patel say earlier.that's just fake news from the radical left of the media. but the problem is, that invoke i'm directly from the national archives in the letter they released this week. but not to, worry cash patel has another rather absurd legal argument for. you that donald trump can work literal miracles with a wave of this hand. he areas, making that case into different fox appearances, this month. >> the president's soul and universe arbiter and classification of the authority in the united states of america. president trump, as a sitting president is a unilateral authority for the classification. if he says a document is the classified, or set of them, that is it. >> you can literally stand a reset of documents and say these are not the classified. >> he can? i bet he can turn water into wine to? okay fine, it is more like how michael scott from the office thinks bankruptcy works. >> i declare bankruptcy. >> unfortunately for cash patel, outside experts and other former trump officials, say that

and the department and fbi took a petty sophomoric wipe at kash patel, you may recall doj didn't want the affidavit released even with redact shawredaction because of purpose dangers to agents and witnesses, then they left cash p patel's name un-- kash patel's name unredacted. there by, releasing the name of a witness. we wonder why there is a double standard. some of the dpeum documents are alleged to be very highly classified. new york and d c media calling for president trump's indictment, on the one hand, good to know there are still crimes liberal media personalties think should be persecuted. if you ar contempt eighth a former president. there the president take the personal documents from the white house or did someone else pack the boxes? when did trump learn who was taken? did they knowingly withhold documents after being asked to return them, was there a good faith disagreement on what had to be legally returned. when is why did negotiations break down. what classified documents were found? why wait months to retrieve the documents, if they contain highly sensitive material?

being handled and what trump said about ownership of these documents. >> so neal, you mentioned kash patellaims of the blanket order to declassify basically if trump took the document from the white house into the residence, it immediately became declassified. people laugh at that. it's the idea of i can turn water to wine by taking it from my kitchen to the living room. would that not have been a question that in a normal white house, any attempt to declassify documents would have started, presumably with pat cipollone right? he would have been aware of any actual formal, normal effort to declassify anything. >> exactly. look, maybe if it's like a media national security crisis, and you don't have time to go and get the white house counsel's approval or something like, that i could imagine in the most emergency of circumstances, the president could do it on their own, but otherwise presidents like everyone else are bound by the procedures, the court of appeals in new york just a couple of years ago said exactly that, and i think the biggest problem for trump is, even if this is so, even i

listen to the explanation from fo former defense department chief of staff under trump, kash patel. >> president trump on multiple occasions at the white house declassified whole sets of documents including, i'll remind you and your audience that around october of 2020, he issued a statement from the white house declassifying every document related to not just the russia gate scandal but also the hillary clinton email scandal. when the president says that, that's it. he's the unilateral chief and sole authority on declassification. >> essentially that these documents have been declassified. must there be some provable documentation of the declassification of those records? >> so this is a really interesting question. so is there a requirement, a process requirement on the president's authority? no. there is not but the devil is in the details, right, victor, as always. >> yeah. >> as a matter of practicality, if the president wants to declassify things, he has to issue some directive or statement or communication so that other people will then be free to treat those materials as no lo

so, let me play for you what kash patel said last month and two months ago. >> i can tell you now that i am now officially arepresentative for donald trump at the national archives. and i'm going to march down there -- i've never told anyone this -- and i'm going to block every document and we're going to start putting that information out next week. >> why? >> so, i don't know is the answer to that, right? i don't think any of us know. but what we do know is if doj was going after this material, there were folks at the nsc, cia, dni that all said, we need this material back. >> because it's the material of the government. it's of the public -- american public. >> but forgetting about -- yes. we want the material back for the government purpose. but in order to send 40 agents there, i guarantee you that the cia, the defense intelligence agency, and the nsc are all looking at this and saying, we need this for our purposes because it's dangerous for this country to get out. >> right. so, why do you think donald trump wanted it? what was he going to do with it, george? >> you know, i thin

in fact, it even sites one kash patel's media appearance. aware of this assertion, and basically said, in effect, to the judge, ignore that. we don't even need to worry about whether that is accurate or. not it happens to be not accurate. but put that aside, because fascinating glee, the search warrant application did not even contain a provision saying there had been a crime committed by removal of classified documents. that crime, which is a separate one under a section 1924 of the criminal code wasn't even mentioned in the search warrant. and i think that is a very revealing deliberate decision by the government. they said, we don't even need to get into the classification, declassification question. i might add, since you have raised it, the idea that he just had this automatic declassification principle makes no sense at all. his own former national security adviser and chief of staff both said they haven't heard of such rule. it makes no sense at all. >> danya, what do you make of the volume here? one thing that is so strange, i keep h

kash patel knows what the negotiations are like.has served in a number of goals in our government. he was at white house, deputy of defense, all right, you are the perfect person to ask. walk us through what it's like trying to get americans home. >> great to be with you, i served as one of president trump leading hostage negotiators, one thing you need above all is a strong commander in chief who is respected to the world stage, whether you are enlisting effort by your special forces operations, to conduct a hostage rescue operation or global diplomacy, you need their leadership to have respect for our chain of command, so we can sit down at the table and have a meaningful negotiation, i know what that is like. i went do downtown damascus syria demanding release of austin ties. it was possible after year's long diplomacy in trump administration, you are seeing difference when there is a failure in the top of the chain of command, at least less of a report for that top position. it makes hostage negotiations difficult. trey: speakin

. >> our friend kash patel who served chief of staff at

. >> our friend kash patel who served chief of staff at defense department in

i know kash patel is the one saying this that he has the power to declassify power. and he did while he was president. but not as an ex-president. and that is the difference here. so i think they are trying to make a retroactivity argument. but we'll know soon enough because the feds took out 12 boxes of documents and we'll know through the inventory, which trump can release at anytime by the way, but he won't, what they took and whether they were indeed classified or declassified. >> also hearing from some republicans that they want to hear from merrick garland the attorney general, they want to hear more from the government about why, why this happened. what do you make of the strategy to remain silent if there is an investigation going on here? >> i love being a prosecutor, christine, but one of the drawbacks is that we have to remain silent during investigations. while the other side can run their mouths with impunity. but if merrick garland decided to speak up, he could jeopardize the bhool investigation. you jeopardize your sources, you tip off targets and you

knows exactly how to declassify documents in the formal, correct process, but that is not what kash patel others have been saying. they said there's a standing order where documents miraculously got declassified, because you moved them from one room to another room in the white house. you can tell, the way i phrased that, i and many other are skeptical of that factual proposition, but that memo shows that the president institute exactly how to do this in the correct fashion. >> as he was talking about that, frank, i saw you nodding and smiling. but let me ask about what's happening with the seized materials. and mark zaide talked about the fbi's process going there them on "morning joe." let me play what he said. >> i've had the fbi, when they have seized clients' records take months. i think i still have a client that haven't gotten files back in six or eight years. that's not going to happen in a high-profile case such as the president of the united states. >> frank, why does it take that long? obviously they know there's a red-hot spotlight on what they're doing right now. >> when it c

officials, including the former acting secretary of defense, chris miller, the chief of staff, kash patelumber of officials in the army. the secretary ryan mccarthy, james mcpherson and two officials who still work there, the chief of staff james mec mcconville. doj has said they're policy is not to retain records when people leave. they write, dod and army co conveyed to american oversight that he or she turns in the government issued phone when they leave and the phone is wiped. the text messages were not preserved and could not be searched. they say it's possible some of the messages could have been memorialized by the email. and for the two officials still there, they're saying they're conducting a search on this. but it appears the policy doesn't appear to be to keep records when these people leave. we reached out to seven of the officials involved either they did not get back to us, former secretary miller declined to comment. so a lot of questions of why we're seeing these missing text messages. >> if it's possible it's less nefarious. but how will we get to the bottom of it? what'

the events surrounding january 6, a watchdog group is trying to get records from chris miller, kash patel and former secretary of the army ryan mccarthy, all three are seen as key witnesses for understanding trump's reaction and the government's response to the attack on the capitol. >>> a federal judge has denied a motion from donald trump to dismiss three lawsuits brought by police officers injured in the capitol riot. trump claims that he has immunity because his actions fell within his presidential duties, but the judge rejected that argument citing a ruling in a similar case from february. the officers allege trump is responsible for the capitol attack. >>> billions of u.s. military veterans exposed to toxic burn pits will soon be getting expanded health care benefits. the senate finally passed the p.a.c.t., act tuesday. jon stewart has listening been a staunch advocate for veterans. >> i'm not sure i've ever seen a situation where people who have already given so much had to fight so hard to get so little. and i hope we learn a lesson. >> senate democratic leader chuck schumer says

hearing from former president trump, we heard from some representatives, more blame shifting and kash patelto deal with issues around the presidential records. he blamed the gsa general services administration a small government agency that deals with the transition. now, they have responded. saying that yes, they do move boxes but anything in the boxes that is on the president and support desk, lastly, we heard from trump spokesperson who mischaracterized what was taken and anderson, all of this is to say there is no credible response right now. there is no seriousness addressed of what we saw in that wa warrant and what the next steps would be. >> i want to get more from cnn political commentator charlie dent and van joins and margaret i want to play what republicans said about the fbi. >> i actually don't think they went in looking for documents that was probably their excuse -- >> a roos. >> do i know the boxes of material they took from mar-a-lago, how do we know they will be honest? >> we know they doctor evidence and plant evidence. >> sure. >> we know they hide skpefd lie and leak.

>> well, president trump says they are, kash patel has said they are, and this is going to be a fact-basedere's going to have to be some substantiation of this, but along the way it's not -- no one is questioning that president trump had full authority to do that as president. question's going to be how can they document that it occurred. maria: so who directed the fbi then? i mean, who is in charge here in is this the same group that oversaw crossfire hurricane and the efforts to ache the trump down during the -- take trump down during the campaign? do we know who directed the fbi to do this raid? >> you know, march maria, that's what's so important about this upcoming election in november. president republicans win the house, that's going to include the investigatory powers we're going to need to get to the bottom of this. we need to know who's directing the fbi, who decided not to use other options than to raid former president trump's to home, who decided to go to the media and say there's disinformation from russia coming out in the election, stop reporting on these issues that might

and i do think that there was an interview earlier this summer with kash patel, his now contact with the national archives. prior to that he worked in the trump administration. he thinks like trump, he's there because he's clearly the kind of fellow that trump can trust, and he has said that the former president intended to use these documents, to release them when strategically convenient for him and beneficial and to attack what he calls the deep state. so we could wind up seeing him release some of these things, risking greater legal trouble, but gaining some political advantage. >> interesting. so also this week long-time trump organization cfo allen weisselberg pleeaded guilty for his role in a 15-year-long tax fraud scheme. as part of the deal, he will testify against the former president's real estate company at trial, but the target is the organization, not individuals. so help people understand. this organization is run by individuals, but what's the style of this former president who continues to seemingly have a knack for insulating himself from any kind of responsibility?

we heard one aide tasked with his records, kash patel, he told fox news this. >> the government administration said they mistakenly packed some boxes and moved them to mar-a-lago. that's not on the president that's on the national archives to sort that material out. >> what do you make of that, preet? they're pointing the finger at everybody but themselves, obviously. >> that's standard operating procedure for the former president and the people around him. on the notion they declassify this information before he left the white house and before the documents were transported to mar-a-lago, interesting point. where's the evidence of that? where's the evidence he followed the protocols and the procedures for declassifying information. where's the evidence that the documents noted at classified that they change the classification on those documents. the documents are designated as such and when there's appropriate declassification. those designations are crossed out and new designations are put in their place so people know if they can look at the documents, if they can be transported, read at ho

but also other more controversial figures like last-minute pentagon appointee and trump loyalist kash patelaccording to a federal court filing, the pentagon and the army said that when an employee leeves the pentagon and turns in their phone, the phone is wiped and text messages from around the attack were, quote, not preserved and, therefore, could not be searched. the government watchdog group american oversight sued for the records and is asking attorney general merrick garland to open an investigation into the pentagon's failure. senate judiciary committee chair dick durbin has also called on garland to investigate wiped texts from the cbs seek and the department of homeland security. the investigation into missing secret service texts is now a criminal investigation. top democrats want the trump-appointed dhs inspector general to step aside from that investigation since he knew about the erased texts months, months he told congress. joining me now is former white house chief ethics lawyer during the george w. bush administration and professor of law at the university of minnesota and a

donald trump know they weren't being classified buzz he was told that they were, like people like kash patelsome argument from judicial watch there is some case law that presidential records, records in the custody of a president after he leaves office, there is a debate about whether they are presidential records. so these are the thin reads that their standing on. but in the face of that, you have the national archives and all of their lawyers an then the justice department and all of their lawyers and the fbi, bess evening these trump officials saying not only are these government records, they're highly classified including special access programs which means only a small number of people in the government could see them because this information could get people killed. so they're on notice that they have material that was that dangerous and i think that makes -- that complicates any defense that well we -- we were entitled to this stuff. >> neal, is the intent, i didn't know i was doing something wrong argument, is that compelling in a courtroom in this case? not only because there was

the news reporting -- but text messaging apparently of some of the senior officials, people like kash patel not available. now, certainly as a committee, we'll get to the bottom of that. we've been working with secret service, and the situation has been reported where text messages are not available or were erased off of phones. but we've received hundreds of thousands of documents from the secret service, and significant information from them that the committee is going through and will use in our investigation and as we conduct interviews of additional secret service agents. >> how much would you say you have learned was unexpected? you obviously have a lot more information than the general public does in your head about what happened on that day, but when you started the hearings earlier this year, did you have any idea how much you would know at this point? >> it's been more information and more sophisticated and broader reaching effort than i understood coming into it. i think all of us on the committee have had that same reaction, which is there's so much -- there was so much more tha

on the news reporting, but text messages apparently of some of the senior officials, people like kash patelainly as a committee we'll get to the bottom of that. we have been working with secret service in a situation that has been reported where text messages are not available or were erased off of phones. but we have received hundreds of thousands of documents from the secret service, and significant information from them that the committee is going through and will use in our investigation and as we conduct interviews of additional secret service agents. >> how much would you say you have learned that was unexpected? you obviously have a lot more information than the general public does in your head about what happened that day. but when you started these hearings, earlier this year, did you have any idea how much you would know by this point? >> it's been more information and more sophisticated and broader reaching effort than i understood coming into it. i think all of us on the committee have had that same reaction, which is that there is so much -- there was so much more that was happ

you mentioned kash patel, former white house aide, he's raising money for a legal offense fund by selling merchandise such as tank tops and beanies emblazoned with the logo. k, money signed, h. meaning cash. this is not just a problem, everybody wants a good lawyer, and maybe not a lawyer who is -- the hell out of the case. but trump doesn't have the representation to protect them anymore, it's possibly meaningful as it has been before, considering he's on his, zone is a normal gonell, and he needs a good lawyer. i guess i remember, whether neuro reporting, there's a sense of an adequate sense of alarm emanating with the trump land overall this. >> absolutely, there is alex, it's such a good question. when i heard over and over again was, among the adults, and again it's a limited group. among the adults and on trump, there's great consternation in fear that he doesn't have the kind of star legal eagle to lead him out of all of these thickets, or at least to give him good advice to how to respond to the department of justice. incredible concern, and that concern, i'm told, has been growin

apparently and this is based on the news reporting, text messages of the senior officials like kash patel committee we'll get to the bottom of that and we've been working with secret service in the situation reported where text messages are not available or were erased off of phones but we received hundreds of thousands of documents from the secret service and significant information from them that the committee is going through and we'll use in our investigation and as we conduct interviews of additional secret service agents. >> how much would you say you have learned that was unexpected? you obviously have a lot more information than the general public does in your head about what happened that day, but when you started these hearings earlier this year, did you have any idea how much you would know by this point? >> it's been more information and more sophisticated and broader reaching effort than i understood coming into it. i think all of us on the committee have had that same reaction, which is that there is so much -- there was so much more that was happening in, you know, multiple

present aren't just unseasoned lawyers who represent a cross-fit and parking garages, you mentioned kash patel, former white house aide, is raising money for a legal defense fund by selling merchandise such as tank tops and beanies emblazoned by the logo k money sign h, meaning cash. this is a problem, everyone wants a goods lawyer and not one that is mnzing the hell out of a case but the president doesn't have a team to protect him anymore so it is actually meaningful in a way that it hasn't been before given the fact that he is out on his own and he is a normal guy now and he needs a good lawyer, i guess i wonder whether in your reporting there is a sense of an, an adequate sense of alarm from the confines the trump land over all of this. >> absolutely, there is, alex. it is such a good question. you know, what i heard over and over again was among the adults and again, it is a limited group but among the adults around dtd, there is great consternation and fear that he doesn't have the kind of sort of star legal beagle to lead him out of the thick ets, or at least to give him good advice for

, who worked for devin nunes at the time so trump is relying on kash patel to defend him on his ownershiperials now that this is a stipulation that he could potentially face five years in prison. >> barb, we were talking about the fact that there have been examples of people who have run afoul of this -- of the appropriate way of handling classified material. sandy berger, bill clinton's national security advisor, but there was never the notion that you might spend five years in prison for this, at least in prior cases. talk about whether this really is something that would -- with trump having gone this far, whether you could imagine a scenario in which donald trump, if he's found guilty, actually ending up having to go to jail for a not trivial amount of time. >> so, the penalty, as we just heard, has gone from one year to five years. ordinarily, sentences are determined not based on the statutory maximum but based sentencing guidelines. did this genuinely threaten national security? the content of these documents is going to matter. the level of willfulness matters. there are a number

on this program former house intel committee chairman deafen nine devin nuÑes -- devin nuÑes and kash patelred the doj's end game as they see it. >> it's no surprise that the likes of john carlin, who was the assistant everyone to general for national security who authorized the russiagate hoax to begin with, is now the number three official at goj, and lisa -- doj, and lisa monaco is the number two official. now this this is a, quote-unquote, ongoing fbi counterintelligence investigation, they will come out to the american public and be able to say ongoing ci investigation, you will nebraska be allowed to see the russiagate docs or any other docs that president trump lawfully declassified. they say the white house knew nothing about it. look, that tells you the white house knew everything about this. if you don't believe the deputy attorney general and the top people at the white house know this, you've been living under a rock. maria: joining me right now is tennessee the senator marsha blackburn, a member of both the senate judiciary and arm services committees. senator, thanks so much f

and then you have that effort by kash patel and some others, helping trump gather up documents by the russia investigation, and they tried to declassify them at the end of his presidency. -- they thought they were going to expose wrongdoing inside the fbi, and people were saying, wait a second, these are sources and methods, you can't with that stuff out. it's quite possible some of those documents found the way to mar-a-lago. -- there is a pending criminal investigation that the justice department is taking very seriously, investigating whether anyone mishandled these documents or otherwise broke the law. >> he was just stubborn and liked to grab stuff, and that is how documents containing nuclear information should end up in his private home in florida? we will find out. there is another big story for us, all about the former guy tonight. the guilty plea of his financial right-hand man, allen weisselberg. nbc's kristen welker we'll bring that down now. >> allen weisselberg, the former chief financial officer pleaded guilty to tax fraud charges, admitting he took one point $7 million

the evidence is the defense department and its secretary and general milli and others including kash patelod terms with the president and hardly favored his actions pre and post january 6th. it's a little bit early, i think, in the information gathering realm to jump to the conclusion that people are going to jail for 20 years. i do agree 100% with the professor that this has to be investigated. you can't ignore context, as you indicated, and he mentioned homeland security, and i think that you have to reconcile those things. i will say those are two completely different types of recordkeeping, those systems, so i'm not sure you can link them but you can't ignore the fact that fool me once, shame on me -- fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. >> all of this, you mentioned the president, the former president is at the center of this. that is the big question all roads lead to. having both of you here with your experience and expertise, the question is whether former president trump will be charged with a crime. now first, ty, let me start with you here. you see two crimina

listen to kash patel, who is a close ally of the former president, talk about this -- what i think is the emerging legal defense we're going to see. >> fascinating. >> president trump on multiple oak occasioned at the white house declassified whole sets of documents. he released a statement from the white house declassifying everything from the russiagate and the hillary clinton email scandal. he's the sole authority on classification. >> look, this is going to have to be tested legally, the justice department and obviously the national archives believes these documents are still classified. they believe that, you know, the president's saying it doesn't necessarily make it so. and we'll see whether the justice department can really make this stand up. because at some point they have to explain what they did at mar-a-lago this week. >> yeah. they will. we'll see when they do that. evan perez, thanks very much. >>> joining us now, on all these headlines, cnn political commentator se cupp and michael moore. great to have you there. so much to pour through here. michael, legally, on what

obviously, kash patel having publicly said he sprinkled magic fairy dust and proclaimed these documents declassified. which is not really how it works. but the fbi actually talking about that in the affidavit, and then later making clear in that affidavit -- sorry. they don't buy it, they don't believe him. certainly, there could not have been evidence if that was the case. and i just want to go back to one thing basil said, this president and these documents, it really does go to some extremely serious and dangerous documents, dangerous to us if they are made public. this is a person of donald trump who has been undermining national security, even when he was in office, the difference, now just remember with putin and helsinki and who our -- the conversation and said he does not believe his own national intelligence about russia interfering in the 2016 election. that actually was undermining national security. but here's the thing now -- he's not the president. he does not have the production of the office, and certainly, when he had the power to make these documents declassified, one,