and we can hear now from an experts on european jewish history and culture professor katelyn stephan is from the university of suffix and the u. k. and his joining me this evening from here in berlin, welcome to the w. thank you so much for your time. we just hubs in that story and helen just saying that she realized later in life, but she needed to speak out about her experiences could. can you explain to us how valuable people like her and the stories that they have to tell? how valuable now? yes, i can hear you of us these people really have stream the cost. i mean, we have a lot of, we have a lot of books on um, the whole cost, how it happens, how it develops them. so it could happen, but how the people experienced it, how it really was for them. it's it just as valuable to have this possible experience. and we also need this personal experience to, to be able to, to have something to say against those who claim that the heart, of course, has never happened. all of the watching the cost never to smell of days we need so it's voice is this pertains to also correct um all those no