please welcome katha pollitt! [cheers and applause] ♪ ♪ >> hi! >> wanda: hi!ng me, wanda. >> wanda: appreciate it. so you have been an abortion rights advocate for decades, and it seems like we keep having this same debate, for over 50 years. so how has -- has it changed any? or is it the same conversation? >> that question makes me feel very old. [laughs] but i think the conversation has been stuck in several ways. and one way i want to mention is that a lot of people have voted antiabortion legislation because they thought it would never happen. so they would vote in state legislatures for these wild things, thinking, well, roe is there, it is not going to be so crazy. but now it is. so they are thinking, oh, my god, what have i done? at least some of them are. but i think the other thing is that dobbs, which overthrew roe, has woken up pro-choicers and the most -- women who maybe didn't know they were pro-choice -- in the most amazing way. [cheers and applause] it was very important in the last election in several races. >> wanda: and abortion rights won in