and then she, katherine dunham, is the founder of the scholarly study of african dance. and he jumps in to that as well. so this was really a wonderful side of fromm. and then in bad times, but i think he finally by mid '50s locked into a state of affairs where the affairs pretty much stop. we okay on in this? good. yes. >> you talked, um, about "escape from freedom," but the book that came after that, "the same society" -- >> yes. >> is there any legacy of that thinking? because it's much more than social democracy he promotes in there. in fact, the book seems to, in my view, be very opposing kind of rational economic thinking that's so much dominating the way that we run society. now, this is the prosecution of abstraction -- the process of abstraction in economic models. i mean, he's just so incredibly against that line of thinking. so somehow he had this great influence on society at some point, but then it's lost at least in america. >> okay. this, you're right. the sane society was, is a great book. it's a anti-consumerism, basically, very strong. and anti-abstract