with our >>> we're back with our roundtable of top pentagon energy officials from the army, katherine hammock thomas hicks from the navy, from the air force terry yonkers and dorothy robien from d.o.d. katherine, let me start with you. i'd like to get everybody's take on this, right now investment is a bit of a dirty word in washington. everybody is looking at cutting spending. how do you make effectively the case that actually spending money on this is something that's worthwhile in terms of reaping long-term benefits? >> because energy costs have risen over the last several years. i think we're all aware that if we save energy we reduce costs. so in an era of declining budgets, we have to be more efficient, we have to be more effective. i think people recognize that investing in energy efficiency, energy technology is the right thing to do. >> tom. >> and i would just say, you look at what we've done and put into our fy '12 budget, we put in over $1 billion in energy investment. that's going to pay for itself in five to six years but that will accrue in years six through 20 and maybe beyond