katherine: i don't know. she goes first to bellevue. she goes to this -- the home of the secretary of war jones. to bellevue which is now dumbarton house, which you can go and visit. and then, right from there they do go across in that route that we figure. and she spends the time at rokeby, matilda lee love's plantation. and then, she does end up at that house which is still standing now, called salona. so she does wander through the virginia countryside and i think that the road probably reflects that. >> and so was she safe when she crossed the river? katherine: yes, she was. but if you actually -- you can't go to rokeby, so don't do it because it's a private house -- but i was lucky enough to go there. and you realize when she's standing on the hill that she could see washington burn. >> barbara is up next in new york city, independent, or it doesn't matter what party you are. go ahead. hi, barbara . barbara: hi, susan. how are you? could you -- either of your guests speak to a story that i read about dolley madison that she stopped at a store in baltimore that was owned by a black woman nam