jonathan: joining me around the table is greg peters, jim keenan, plus kathleen gaffney. thleen, i want to begin with you. i asked many investors just a couple weeks ago when we break out of this trading range for treasury, where we break out to? most i would imagine would say to the upside. we break down to the downside in a significant way. what your thoughts? -- what are your thoughts? kathleen: i might have been one of those that was for the upside. but we are seeing a bit of a conundrum here. some of it is a flight to quality. but i also think you have some demand coming in that is caused by the equity volatility. so you have folks that are looking to de-risk and reduce their equity exposure. and they are actually coming back into the treasury market. the fixed income market. jonathan: do we have a pain trade developing, mr. peters? greg: i don't know. bonds are doing exactly as they are supposed to be doing. right? there is a flight to quality. risk off. bonds are adjusting. at the same time, there is a complete and utter overreaction to the upside a month and a half

still with me, greg peters, jim keenan, and kathleen gaffney. keenan, in august of last year, for this maturity, for this credit rating, that tesla issue was a record low yield of 5.3%. and it has fallen out of bed. is it a tesla issue specifically, or does this speak to something broader in credit markets? jim: in general, you have seen volatility increased dramatically since you had that issue. it is a combination of aggregate volatility built in the equities, and what that has meant in spread volatility. so the credit markets, and certainly the high yield markets, have been weaker since that issuance. on top of that, you have seen the yield curve move. so there has been a duration component to that aspect. obviously, you have seen some issues with tesla with the unfortunate events of the crash and regulation picking up between that and uber. there are a combination of events that have weighed on that credit. when you look at the issuing itself, it is obviously a very, very significant, probably market cap company that is growing. so it has to