kathryn "kitty" kolbert is co-founder of the center for reproductive rights. argued the landmark supreme court case planned parenthood v. casey, which upheld roe. she is the co-author of "controlling women: what we must do now to save reproductive freedom." and michele goodwin is chancellor's professor at university of california-irvine school of law, host of the ms. magazine podcast "on the issues with michele goodwin," and author of "policing the womb: invisible women and the criminalization of motherhood." her new piece for "the new york times" is headlined "no, justice alito, reproductive justice is in the constitution." i began by asking professor goodwin for her response to the supreme court overturning roe. >> well, it's good to be back with you, amy, on this show. the decision itself, just as we saw with the leaked draft, has many errors, omissions. it has a selective, if not opportunistic, reading of american history. it does nocenter -- in all of its claimed originalism, in all of its claimed textualism interestingly enough, it avoids the 13th amendm