selvaggi, i'm kathy. >> gawande: dr. selvaggi works with doctors throughout the hospital to help with their hardest patient conversations. >> so how are you feeling? >> a little better than i was when first came in here the other day. >> gawande: aymen elfiky was one of those doctors, he's an oncologist who, like me, grapples with reaching good decisions with his patients about dying. he'd been caring for a patient named norma babineau for two years. he said that during that time he had tried to broach how dire her prognosis was, but he had not been successful >> let me start by giving you both an overview where we're at now. because the cancer has developed a more aggressive course to it, right? it's a more resistant type. this is where the tough discussions, uh, come up. the disease, we knew, has been acting up. right now, in this state, the treatment would hurt you more than help you. that's just a fact. and you would not get the benefit of it. >> is there a time, you think, a timeline, or...? >> we could be talking ab